Stoppd by the DFG

[dsafety]

I launched at LJ this morning for the first time in nearly four months. I am recovering from an Achilles Tendon tear and finally feel strong enough to get back on the water. This was my first trip to La Jolla since the new MPA boundaries went into effect.

The first thing that I noticed when I reached the buoy line was that there were at least 50 lobster traps set within the newly expanded MPA. I asked some guys on the water if this was new and was told that they have been there all season. This pissed me off.

Like most people familiar with the MLPA fiasco, I am angry about what has come to pass and am hopeful that clearer thinking and lawsuits will eventually result in a more reasonable plan. In the mean time, I will do my best to follow the new laws, (although without any clearly marked boundaries, this will be difficult). The fact that some commercial lobster fishers appear to be thumbing their noses at the new regs angers me as well. So much so that while on the water, I called the DFG to report the violations.

I waded through a bunch of phone menus and spoke to four humans before my contact information was taken. I was told that a warden would call me. Yeah, right. I never got the call.

I spent a beautiful day on the water fishing at times with some old friends and some new ones. Please do not confuse fishing with catching. Today was not my day but I saw at least five pods of whales up close and personal. That was worth the trip.

On the way back to shore, I noticed a large Zodiac heading towards me. It was a DFG boat with two very nice wardens aboard. My first thought was that they had been dispatched to check out my observations about the illegal lobster traps. Nope, they were on a regular patrol checking for fishing licenses and inspecting the day's catch. In the 45 years that I have been fishing with a license, this is only the second time that I have been asked to produce one.

They checked me out and were ready to leave when I mentioned my call about the lobster traps. They said that they had heard about the call but knew nothing more. They had not been asked to check out the problem. At my urging, they went to the buoy line to see what I had reported.

A while later they pulled up alongside again and informed me that all the lobster traps were outside the reserve. Given that most of these traps were about a half mile inside the new MPA, I questioned them about where they thought the reserve boundary was. To my amazement, the told me that the reserve ended at the buoy line and that this was what was programed into their GPS units.

Incredulous, I explained to these guys that the rules had changed. I also told them that if it was their intention to only enforce the pre-2012 boundaries, I would be a happy camper.

They huddled together and called their headquarters. A few minutes later, they sped off back to the offending lobster traps. When I reached them a few minutes later, they thanked me for giving them the heads up. Apparently the guys in the field have not yet all been given their new marching orders.

Their next statement almost made me fall out of my yak. They told me that they had taken down the numbers from the fifty or so buoys that had been set inside the reserve. They would give those numbers to their administrative folks who would "mail the trap owners a letter telling them that they were in violation". If the traps were not moved in a reasonable time, they would issue citations.

I wonder what a "reasonable time" is? I further wonder what would have happened to the poor fisherman who had unwittingly wandered into one of the newly closed, (and unmarked) areas. I bet that fisherman would have gotten a ticket on the spot.

Now I am not ragging on the DFG. The guys I met were very nice and were just doing their jobs. I am a little disappointed that that these guys, (and presumably many other wardens), were not as well informed about the new regulations as a myself, who has been sitting on land, mending a bad leg for the last four months.

As for the lobster fishermen who set their traps in the expanded reserve, I have no sympathy. I hope that they ignore their very generous warnings and have all their gear confiscated. All commercial lobster fishermen have GPS systems to help them figure out where to set their traps. These guys have no excuse for not knowing where the legal grounds are. They are poachers pure and simple. I hope that they get taught a very painful lesson.

Bob

[deepdvr]

Great.......now the commercial guys are going to be running us down as one of our own is ratting them out. :shot:

[Aaron]

Wow, after countless hours fighting, countless dollars spent, and a heartbreaking battle, one of our own takes it upon himself to make sure that these things are being strictly enforced? I mean, making REALLY sure that they are being enforced. :doh: dsafety, you're a nice guy, nothing personal, but I definitely don't agree with you on this one.

[tyler82]

Right on Dsafety...I totally agree with you on this one. Do I agree with the MPA and all of the restrictions that come with it...no. But it is what stops the poachers and conserves our natural resources and the animals that live within it.

[Aaron&Julie]

I gotta say this doesn't sound right.
#1 If you're talking about the south buoys of the cove near the point that cuts towards the Big Hotel (Condo), that area is NOT off limits once you get out of the old reserve. Only the northern buoys of the cove before Scripps pier is now an MLPA area, but you can still catch bait legally.
#2 Since most of us fishermen believe the MLPA is wrong, I don't think it's in our best interest to get the DFG working on all the legalities of this issue, and monitoring these "crazy" MLPA borders. Yes, that bust up in Laguna was a great one, but not because it was in an MLPA area, but ONLY because they had no licenses, no lobster cards and had 40 or more short lobsters. It truly wasn't about the MLPA but about poaching that would be illegal no matter where they did it.
#3 The DFG will get plenty of support from the enviro "whackos" who brought about the MLPA, I don't think any fishermen who believes the MLPA is WRONG, should be helping them do their "duties". Commercial fishermen were fighting for open waters along with Sport fishermen. If indeed some commercial traps were in an MLPA area, and those guys didn't break any other laws, i.e. short bugs, over-limit of bugs, etc, I'm not going to be the one to rat them out for what I know in my heart is a wrong closure. I doubt these were dudes like the assholes up north, who broke countless laws.
#4 So you want the DFG out there patrolling, making sure no one crosses these MLPA boundries, huh? Great, now that you've alerted them they are on everybody like stink on S&$#!. So, you hook that yellow (+50lbs) of a lifetime, he tows you a 1/4 mile into an MLPA area, and since you've got the DFG on their toes now, they spot you and tell you, that you can't land that fish, because you are in an unauthorized area. It could happen.

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think you're going to get too many people here giving you kudos. But, maybe I'm wrong.

On another note, Julie and I went to our "clamming beach", and we got double limits. Funny thing, it was on a Thursday (yesterday), where no other fishermen were even around, but a DFG guy drove up, checked our licenses, and the 3 clams we had at the time. No worries here, we weren't breaking any laws. But, for an organization that is badly undermanned, we found it odd, that on a weekday, with no fishing going on around us, they had enough personnel to check on a couple of "clammers". Hmmph!?!
Aaron

[Billy V]

I launched at LJ this morning for the first time in nearly four months. I am recovering from an Achilles Tendon tear and finally feel strong enough to get back on the water. This was my first trip to La Jolla since the new MPA boundaries went into effect.

The first thing that I noticed when I reached the buoy line was that there were at least 50 lobster traps set within the newly expanded MPA. I asked some guys on the water if this was new and was told that they have been there all season. This pissed me off.

Like most people familiar with the MLPA fiasco, I am angry about what has come to pass and am hopeful that clearer thinking and lawsuits will eventually result in a more reasonable plan. In the mean time, I will do my best to follow the new laws, (although without any clearly marked boundaries, this will be difficult). The fact that some commercial lobster fishers appear to be thumbing their noses at the new regs angers me as well. So much so that while on the water, I called the DFG to report the violations.

I waded through a bunch of phone menus and spoke to four humans before my contact information was taken. I was told that a warden would call me. Yeah, right. I never got the call.

I spent a beautiful day on the water fishing at times with some old friends and some new ones. Please do not confuse fishing with catching. Today was not my day but I saw at least five pods of whales up close and personal. That was worth the trip.

On the way back to shore, I noticed a large Zodiac heading towards me. It was a DFG boat with two very nice wardens aboard. My first thought was that they had been dispatched to check out my observations about the illegal lobster traps. Nope, they were on a regular patrol checking for fishing licenses and inspecting the day's catch. In the 45 years that I have been fishing with a license, this is only the second time that I have been asked to produce one.

They checked me out and were ready to leave when I mentioned my call about the lobster traps. They said that they had heard about the call but knew nothing more. They had not been asked to check out the problem. At my urging, they went to the buoy line to see what I had reported.

A while later they pulled up alongside again and informed me that all the lobster traps were outside the reserve. Given that most of these traps were about a half mile inside the new MPA, I questioned them about where they thought the reserve boundary was. To my amazement, the told me that the reserve ended at the buoy line and that this was what was programed into their GPS units.

Incredulous, I explained to these guys that the rules had changed. I also told them that if it was their intention to only enforce the pre-2012 boundaries, I would be a happy camper.

They huddled together and called their headquarters. A few minutes later, they sped off back to the offending lobster traps. When I reached them a few minutes later, they thanked me for giving them the heads up. Apparently the guys in the field have not yet all been given their new marching orders.

Their next statement almost made me fall out of my yak. They told me that they had taken down the numbers from the fifty or so buoys that had been set inside the reserve. They would give those numbers to their administrative folks who would "mail the trap owners a letter telling them that they were in violation". If the traps were not moved in a reasonable time, they would issue citations.

I wonder what a "reasonable time" is? I further wonder what would have happened to the poor fisherman who had unwittingly wandered into one of the newly closed, (and unmarked) areas. I bet that fisherman would have gotten a ticket on the spot.

Now I am not ragging on the DFG. The guys I met were very nice and were just doing their jobs. I am a little disappointed that that these guys, (and presumably many other wardens), were not as well informed about the new regulations as a myself, who has been sitting on land, mending a bad leg for the last four months.

As for the lobster fishermen who set their traps in the expanded reserve, I have no sympathy. I hope that they ignore their very generous warnings and have all their gear confiscated. All commercial lobster fishermen have GPS systems to help them figure out where to set their traps. These guys have no excuse for not knowing where the legal grounds are. They are poachers pure and simple. I hope that they get taught a very painful lesson.

Bob

Holy Sh1t.

Did someone hack your user name and post that ?

-----------
I just deleted everything I wrote to you Bob - because I believe it wouldn't help you understand one bit.

[Matt]

Kooks will be kooks!! Funniest thing is your calling the "cops" about something that is legal hahaha understand the laws first! Did you get a free blue shirt that says "mpa's work"???? :the_finger:

[mazilla]

"Mind your own business" comes to mind...:rolleyes:

[dorado50]

So Bob,what u r saying is that if someone catches a trophy outside mpa zone and the fish takes them into the illegal zone(where they boat it) you are reporting this to the the dfg. :( Not cool..........My father always warned me of "do gooders" now I see why.

[dorado50]

Right on Dsafety...I totally agree with you on this one. Do I agree with the MPA and all of the restrictions that come with it...no. But it is what stops the poachers and conserves our natural resources and the animals that live within it.


:the_finger:

[mckenzie]

No you didn't, REALLY?

[dsafety]

Well, I guess I have been taken to the woodshed. I am very surprised at the flaming that I am taking for this one. Everyone, of course is entitled to their opinion. I will stand by mine.

My position on this is that if the average guy is going to have to abide by these new regs, the commercial fishermen should have to do so as well. What I saw yesterday was obviously intentional. Who among us supports the idea that one class of fishermen has to obey the law and another class does not?

The more important point of my post was the the fact that the organization chartered with enforcing the new regs is clueless as to what they are. The fact that the procedure used to deal with the commercial poachers that were identified is to mail a letter was also an eye opener.

Like it or not, the new regs are here, at least for a while. We have to live with the cards that we have been dealt. Contrary to what some might think, the DFG wardens are not the enemy. They have an important job to do and precious few resources with which to do it. I, for one would rather have a cordial and respectful relationship with these guys rather than an adversarial one. I think that I may have done a bit to help secure the former with what I did yesterday.

Bob

[ericko]

I would have looked the other way..... I STILL LIKE YA BOB

[Hypoxic1]

Hmm, this sounds like a great way to encourage the badges to spend more time down here. I cant believe what I just read. unfuckingbelieveable

[Iceman]

As I paddled in yesterday the guy was pulling his traps right at the "old" boundary. I watched him pull and measure and re dump his traps. I considered paddling over and asking if he knew the lines had been changed as of Jan 1 and is lobster trapping exempt.

I decided to not bother If he is oblivious to the fight for his livelyhood, he deserves the ticket. I did not feel compelled at all to help the DFG with the 3 foot high permit # on the side of his boat.

I does not surprise me that commercial fishermen have never heard of the MLPA or even some of the wardens.

Bob,

you did what you felt was right, it would piss me off if the DFG did not treat ALL violators equally, I don't think anyone will be ticketed any time soon in LJ

[Devildawgjj]

Who among us supports the idea that one class of fishermen has to obey the law and another class does not?


Bob

There is nothing egalitarian about law, policies, rules and regulations, etc. We can't (with the presumption we know the law) fish in an invisible boundary. But there will always people who do.....it's not my job to police them.

It's kind of analogous with people speeding past me on the freeway when I'm going at or slightly under the posted speed limit.

These guys have no excuse for not knowing where the legal grounds are.

The antithesis to this is the DFG wardens should have no exuse for not knowing where the leagal grounds are as well.

As a graduate student in a MPA program, it is quite frequent that policies that are enacted under the auspices of environmental ideologies, get enacted, without ever a plan to enforce such rule under their current resources.

Jason

[Matt]

Before you get dudes in trouble and call the "cops" or DFG please remember that the world HATES SNITCHES!!:the_finger: and Mlpa supporters

[lbsurf2ca]

Oh man... please delete this post immediately!

[mbaha]

THANK YOU BOB!!!
I get pissed about those POACHERS every time I drive down prospect. I have been meaning to take pictures from shore, where you clearly see they are POACHING and send them to DFG. Calling Cal-Tip has never worked for me. Did you get the name of either warden? It would be nice to follow up and make sure the POACHING stops.

Thank you for being steward of our natural resources.

:luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello: :luxhello::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notwor thy::notworthy::notworthy::cheers1::cheers1::cheer s1::cheers1:

[Billy V]

I fished N/W La Jolla 4 times in the last 2 weeks on my boat, and I know exactly where the GPS boundaries are. I also fished Torry Pines, and S. La Jolla on a commercial boat with a GPS Overlay of the reserves on the chart plotter and still did not see any lobster traps inside a reserve.

I did not see a single lobster buoy in the new reserve.

Incase you did not know - the lobsterman may legally set their traps right up to the GPS line, if the buoy is dragged inside the reserve by the tide or current, the trap is still legal. The measurement is taken from where the cage lies on the ocean floor.
-------------------------------
To jump to a conclusion, and sound the General Alarm is just plain wrong.
-Would you react with such conviction in other matters of Law ?

We sure could have used such dedication while fighting the Illegal and Corrupt Blue Ribbon Task Force. Its right there on YouTube for you to see. Listen to the BRTF Lie about their ownership of Marinas, How they governed themselves as bound by the brown act, the fuel docks they own and much more.

Meg Caldwell gets a little wet in her pp at the mere mention of the letters mlpa. Those are the real outlaws, the real violators. The ones who bent you over and stole your ocean, then shoved their fist straight up your arse.
-------------------------------

I question your judgement and reaction on the DFG tipster incident without having fully known what was legal or illegal. Everyone here will suffer the consequences of this action - Regardless if you were right or wrong.

[T Bone]

My brother is a sportboat Capt At Davies Locker (Freelance and Bongos)and knows many commercial lobster fisherman.No one is more fudgepacked than them on all of this since most of these MPA's are inshore reef areas and not vast expanse of sandy beach that doesnt hold much if any lobster.

[mbaha]

I fished N/W La Jolla 4 times in the last 2 weeks on my boat, and I know exactly where the GPS boundaries are. I also fished Torry Pines, and S. La Jolla on a commercial boat with a GPS Overlay of the reserves on the chart plotter and still did not see any lobster traps inside a reserve.

I did not see a single lobster buoy in the new reserve.

Incase you did not know - the lobsterman may legally set their traps right up to the GPS line, if the buoy is dragged inside the reserve by the tide or current, the trap is still legal. The measurement is taken from where the cage lies on the ocean floor.
-------------------------------
To jump to a conclusion, and sound the General Alarm is just plain wrong.
-Would you react with such conviction in other matters of Law ?

We sure could have used such dedication while fighting the Illegal and Corrupt Blue Ribbon Task Force. Its right there on YouTube for you to see. Listen to the BRTF Lie about their ownership of Marinas, How they governed themselves as bound by the brown act, the fuel docks they own and much more.

Meg Caldwell gets a little wet in her pp at the mere mention of the letters mlpa. Those are the real outlaws, the real violators. The ones who bent you over and stole your ocean, then shoved their fist straight up your arse.
-------------------------------

I question your judgement and reaction on the DFG tipster incident without having fully known what was legal or illegal. Everyone here will suffer the consequences of this action - Regardless if you were right or wrong.
Billy, come sit at Alligator head for 1/2 hour and you will see POACHERS setting and retrieving lobster pots right against the southern most buoys, which is INSIDE the new reserve.

Maybe I'll take some pictures on Monday so we can all see them POACHING

[mbaha]

So we are all clear, the POACHERS are POACHING in the south eastern most part of the red area in the below image. You all know where the southern buoys are nearest the cove and how they made a dog leg. Now the line has been straightened out but the buoys have not moved. The POACHERS are going hog wild in their own private lobster area right in front of our face.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegallery/data/637/Old_and_New_boundary_for_La_Jolla_area_MPAs.jpg

[roadx]

Bob you have gave a lot of good suggestions and tips but this is not right. what the hell were you thinking? :mad:

jealously is a terrible thing. YOU cant do it, so no one can mentality is destroying this country.

[Billy V]

My next trip is later this week.

I will look in the area you mentioned, as well as the other areas that I intend to fish.

[mbaha]

Bob you have gave a lot of good suggestions and tips but this is not right. what the hell were you thinking? :mad:

jealously is a terrible thing. YOU cant do it, so no one can mentality is destroying this country.
Err when it is against the law then yes no one should do it. Plus for every lobster they steal that is one less for the law abiding citizens. I'm surprised to see the honorable kayak guys so pro-POACHING.

[mbaha]

My next trip is later this week.

I will look in the area you mentioned, as well as the other areas that I intend to fish.
Thank you.

[Podaker]

Speechless......:confused:

[mazilla]

Err when it is against the law then yes no one should do it. Plus for every lobster they steal that is one less for the law abiding citizens. I'm surprised to see the honorable kayak guys so pro-POACHING.


"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
-Thomas Jefferson

[Matt]

I don't think anyone is "pro poaching" but everyone here is outraged at the unjust process that the Mlpa was forced upon us. Zero current research was used and so many back room deals were cut it was insane. Not "pro poaching" just anti bullshit!

[Fiskadoro]

Incase you did not know - the lobsterman may legally set their traps right up to the GPS line, if the buoy is dragged inside the reserve by the tide or current, the trap is still legal. The measurement is taken from where the cage lies on the ocean floor.

That's a very good point!!!

[bellcon]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> I saw the lobster pots yesterday; there is a line of them just outside the "old" boundary, so yes they are in the "new" boundary.

This is NOT about "honorable kayak guys so pro-POACHING":icon_bs:
it is about kayak guys who fought so hard against the f-ing sham of a process called the mlpa, that illegally took some of best fishing spots up and down the California coast!.

It is also about the relationships kayakers, spearos and the commercials tried to develop during the process, to do what we could together to stop the Bullchit train that was bent on running us over.

Like Bob I will always do what I can to stop poaching when I see it.
I will also abide by their new regs and mpa boundaries.
BUT I will NOT help the DFG or anyone else enforce the new MPA's!
F-them and their new boundaries.

It would be awesome if when those buoys are pulled up,
they are connected to a big rock with a note that says:
F--- the MLPA!.


PS
Can we just delete this post forever?
I doubt it will help our cause or look good for us in the long run...

[RK]

Bob what a donkey move...So I have you to thank for the dfg going through all my shit threatening to cite me when I'm a licensed fisherman. Rad bob so awesome of you....
Such a hero




I love the fact that guys that make a living doing something feeding there families and have probably been dropping pots in a area where there fathers a s grandfathers have for years continue to do so...
Poaching is gay
So are tattle tellers
But fishing isn't. Quit trying to be a vigilante and go fishing

[RK]

I'm with don on this one moderator pleaseDelete this post

[WahooUSMA]

Well I am probably going to get bitched slapped on this one. As retired LAPD Detective, I can tell you we cleared 75% of our cases by citizens such as Bob calling in with tips. And, as political as this may sound, we are a Nation of laws and we must obey by them - like it or not. I fucking hate the MLPA and their 'scientific research', etc. I hate everything they stand for, but what the fuck - We have to live with it for now. I am hoping that at some point, some sort of litigation will intervene and we can stop these liberal, eco-fuck nuts in their tracks.

While the MLPA is bad, I spent the better part of my adult life in law enforcement and the military dealing with the ALCU and Amnesty International, so right now I can handle the eco-wakos - In the big scheme of things, they are a pimple on my ass! I have better things to do with my time then worrying about the MPLA. Slamming a fellow kayaker for doing what he perceived as the right thing to do is BS. Way to stand up for what you believed in was right, Bob. The only other option you might have had was to lie-in-wait and confront the poachers by your lonesome. I guess the majority of the population on this board would have paddle up to commercial fisherman and advise them to pull up their catches, dump their nets and move on if they observed them poaching vs. calling the authorities……Yeah right.

Therefore, going forward, I will do what is right and you if you don't like it:the_finger:

[dorado50]

Delete this thread like the liberal nuts deleted the recreational fishermans due process (and their right to fish)during the mlpa meetings?. C'mon man.

[jorluivil]

I bet you guys some MLPA dumbshit is reading this at laughing at how all of you are fighting with each other over what someone believes is right. If Bob wants to call the DFG let him call them, who are you to judge another man for what he believes in?

[T-Rex]

I, for one would rather have a cordial and respectful relationship with these guys rather than an adversarial one. I think that I may have done a bit to help secure the former with what I did yesterday.

Bob

Bob, I gotta disagree with you. I believe we should always maintain a courteous and respectful relationship with the DFG wardens, but this doesn't require anyone to help enforce the MLPA.

I'd fully support you for reporting someone taking shorts, but the MLPA and new boundaries are complete BS and were implemented through a disgusting and corrupt process. I'm shocked anyone in the fishing community would go out of their way to help enforce implementation of the MLPA.

[T-Rex]

If Bob wants to call the DFG let him call them, who are you to judge another man for what he believes in?

George - I have no problem judging the actions of others. Bob has the right to call the DFG, and we all have the right to either agree or disagree with him.

[rogersmith]

sorry, no markers, no boundary. Would you pay a ticket for running a stop sign on an intersection with no sign? No way Jose. I'll see you in court. They want these bull $hit MPA, cough up the cash and make the effort to move the markers.

[lamb]

All right gang. I don't think we should nuke this thread.

Bob, first - thanks for the report.

You did what you felt was right, and you did nothing illegal.

There's something to be said about the lobster guys pulling their ropes to bring the food to the table, and there's a ton to be said about MLPA and we sure did spill out how we all feel about it.

This is really the most important point Bob is bringing up:

The more important point of my post was the the fact that the organization chartered with enforcing the new regs is clueless as to what they are.

I was too busy lately to post about it, but I was outraged when I received that recent email press release from DFG about those bozos/douche divers in Laguna poaching lobsters in the spot that was off limits even before MLPAs. It was a shameless plug, desperate attempt on raising general awernes of MLPAs. It was totally inappropriate, and it so much lacked a class that it made me sick. I went through all the emails from DFG I got the last 2 months - they took their time to inform their email subscribers about Black-backed Woodpecker, volunteers they need, non-native aquatic species that have taken up residence in San Francisco Bay, Wildlower Tours, endangered Delta Smelt, a lone wolf travelling from Oregon from California, frogs... There was not a single mention of MLPAs ?!?!? The very agency that is supposed to be enforcing the new MLPA rules and boundaries didn't find applicable to at least makes an attempt to educate their main "customer base", very fishermen and women that want to obey the law and desperately need their help to navigate though this maze of the new MLPA borders?

C'mon... It really bothers me as DFG is kind of "on our side" - majority of folks on their staff are passionate anglers and hunters.

With that said - I am not surprised the wardens didn't even know that the new MLPA rules extend the boundary of the reserve further to the south. Hurting for funding like the rest of the state, I can't imagine they put appropriate measures in place to educate their wardens on the whole new world of MPAs. It's been thrown at them just like it has been thrown at us.

Personally, being bitter about the whole MLPA process and the outcome, I am not compelled to jump in and serve in any sort of enforcement of the new MLPA boundaries. I know the borders and steer clear, but I'm not going to be a part of MLPA volunteer force that is "helping enforce" the new boundaries.

It will take a loooong time that they sort all this chit out - I didn't want it nether I supported it to begin with.

And Bob, fyi - Jasmin tore Achilles Tendon... twice! on the same leg.
We may have to get you off of the Hobie after all? :D

[TCS]

Don't agree with Bob but do respect him as well.

[T Bone]

Remember when we were (and still are) all fired up about the new boundaries?We are going to fish where we want and no one is going to stop us!Wades disposable kayak and gear ringing a bell.We are down to protest,maybe this is their way of doing the same.They are REAL people getting REALLY screwed.Think about it.

[Matt]

Remember when we were (and still are) all fired up about the new boundaries?We are going to fish where we want and no one is going to stop us!Wades disposable kayak and gear ringing a bell.We are down to protest,maybe this is their way of doing the same.They are REAL people getting REALLY screwed.Think about it.

X2 and very well put!!

[WahooUSMA]

This is not fishing related or maybe it is? But this is a very moving, motivating vid that I watch from time to time……thought I would just toss it out there with all the BS that's been floating around….kind of puts things in perspective to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64vXec-pKA4

[Aaron&Julie]

Remember when we were (and still are) all fired up about the new boundaries?We are going to fish where we want and no one is going to stop us!Wades disposable kayak and gear ringing a bell.We are down to protest,maybe this is their way of doing the same.They are REAL people getting REALLY screwed.Think about it.

x3!

I remember all the rebellious souls who basically said that. Nobody seemed to want to tell them, "Don't do it, or I'll tell on you". It was kayak fishermen fed up with how we got screwed, and if one of us caught that trophy fish just inside an MLPA zone, we weren't going to be the ones to rat on him, when ALMOST all of us (kayak fishermen) know how WRONG these closures are. I guess that rebellious attitude has now been put into check, because one of our own might "narc" on us.

Yes, it is now law, and we all shouldn't be breaking laws. But, we do, especially when they are wrong. I don't get on the phone and call the Highway Patrol, every time someone is speeding. Otherwise, I'd never be off the phone. I don't call them if I see somebody doesn't have their seatbelt on, or a helmet on. Even as much as it drives me crazy, I don't call the HP when people are texting or talking on the cell phone while driving. I have 2 family members who are/were cops, they broke laws, too. Does everyone really believe no cop ever travels above 65mph when not on duty?

Everyone is surely entitled to their opinion here, including DSafety, etc, I just don't happen to agree with them.

But, I'm not going to be the one to help this country to continue to tarnish it's greatness, by taking freedoms away from us, especially when I know it is WRONG. And I certainly won't call the DFG if one of you is 100 yards over the MLPA line, or if a fish tows you into one of those zones, even though I could.

If I know someone is in the act of taking short fish (crustaceans), too many, fish out of season, or protected species, I'll call the DFG, because I believe in those laws, just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't.

I could care less if the motor-cyclist wants to take HIS LIFE in HIS HANDS. I don't care if they don't check everyone's shoes at the airport. If Terrorists want to hijack/blow-up a plane, they will, that was proven time and again, the year following 9/11.

I don't understand why anyone around here should want this thread deleted. The MLPA is upon us, and it is good to know where we stand.
If you think it is redundant, tedious, annoying, etc, don't bother reading it.

Aaron

[Billy V]

Remember when we were (and still are) all fired up about the new boundaries?We are going to fish where we want and no one is going to stop us!Wades disposable kayak and gear ringing a bell.We are down to protest,maybe this is their way of doing the same.They are REAL people getting REALLY screwed.Think about it.

Yes, I remember and can tell you that guys are sticking to their word. They just aren't advertising or beating their chest about it.

There's more hard core than hardons around here.

[GHOSTHUNTR]

Try not to do anything stupid out there people.:doh:

[-scallywag-]

WOW....heard about this on the water friday afternoon....although i don't agree with what Bob did, I do respect people that go out of they're way to do what they feel is right, and have the courage to admit when they are wrong.

As for the lobster pots in question, there are a few pots along the canyon in the area west of the old reserve line and in the new mpa, but as far as I know the DFG gave all the commercial trappers a 30+++-day grace period to get all there gear moved out of the new MPA's.

Also, like someone pointed out earlier, until they move the bouys they will not be able to enforce that MPA extention....at least for us rec.guys....you cant just change the speed limit on the freeway, keep the old signs up, and expect everyone to follow the "law".

[dorado50]

x3!

I remember all the rebellious souls who basically said that. Nobody seemed to want to tell them, "Don't do it, or I'll tell on you". It was kayak fishermen fed up with how we got screwed, and if one of us caught that trophy fish just inside an MLPA zone, we weren't going to be the ones to rat on him, when ALMOST all of us (kayak fishermen) know how WRONG these closures are. I guess that rebellious attitude has now been put into check, because one of our own might "narc" on us.

Yes, it is now law, and we all shouldn't be breaking laws. But, we do, especially when they are wrong. I don't get on the phone and call the Highway Patrol, every time someone is speeding. Otherwise, I'd never be off the phone. I don't call them if I see somebody doesn't have their seatbelt on, or a helmet on. Even as much as it drives me crazy, I don't call the HP when people are texting or talking on the cell phone while driving. I have 2 family members who are/were cops, they broke laws, too. Does everyone really believe no cop ever travels at or below 65mph when not on duty?

Everyone is surely entitled to their opinion here, including DSafety, etc, I just don't happen to agree with them.

But, I'm not going to be the one to help this country to continue to tarnish it's greatness, by taking freedoms away from us, especially when I know it is WRONG. And I certainly won't call the DFG if one of you is 100 yards over the MLPA line, or if a fish tows you into one of those zones, even though I could.

If I know someone is in the act of taking short fish (crustaceans), too many, fish out of season, or protected species, I'll call the DFG, because I believe in those laws, just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't.

I could care less if the motor-cyclist wants to take HIS LIFE in HIS HANDS. I don't care if they don't check everyone's shoes at the airport. If Terrorists want to hijack/blow-up a plane, they will, that was proven time and again, the year following 9/11.

I don't understand why anyone around here should want this thread deleted. The MLPA is upon us, and it is good to know where we stand.
If you think it is redundant, tedious, annoying, etc, don't bother reading it.

Aaron



EXCELLENT! .......now all cells and vhf's to be checked at the door so the "drop the dime" issue won't come into play.:cheers1:

[T Bone]

The fish in my avatar was caught in what is now an MLPA.Just past the reserve.Decided to drop a bait one last time before quitting for the day.

[yaky yak]

As pissed off as us fishermen are about losing prime sportfishing area, think how it is for those who likelihoods depended on these areas to pay their bills and feed their familys. They have lost a lot and have a lot to loose. "If" these traps were inside the MLPA area I say it shows courage and American spirit. These boundrys are only a month old. It's not like they have been in effect for years.
I am sure some citizens would of called the the local cops if they had seen the Boston tea party going down too in the 1700rds, but if not for acts like that there wouldn't be an USA today.
The DFG I believe are between a rock and a hard place. Let them do their jobs as they see fit.
I am waiting for some citizen MLPA patrol to jam me up, right or wrong I'm causing a seen. Now I have to worry about my fellow fishermen(victims) policing my actions? There are always a Judas do gooder who'll go above and beyond.
I don't know you Sir, and I respect your right as a human being, but don't you think your just a little petty. Most snitches hide behind anonymity, but your right out there with yours. Who you trying to impress?

[Saba Slayer]

"Can't we just get along?"
Bob did what he thought was right. We all make our decisions on where we draw the line...
"Aaron said..."If I know someone is in the act of taking short fish (crustaceans), too many, fish out of season, or protected species, I'll call the DFG, because I believe in those laws, just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't.
"BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THOSE LAWS" that's the basis of Aaron's believed right to call the DFG...well apparently we "draw the line" on whether a law is enforceable or not based on our own set of moral rights.
Do you call the HP if you see a drunk driver, or a dangerous speeder cutting in and out of traffic endangering others? Or only...."just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't."
Who's Right? Who's Wrong? The age old question?
Let's Go Fishin'...
The Hooping should be good once this rain stops...go get some Bugs and Crabs ands enjoy the beautiful Southern California areas that are still open to us!!!!!!!!!! ......and TURN IN YOUR REPORT CARDS!!!!!!!!!!
Jim / Saba Slayer

[jorluivil]

"Can't we just get along?"
Bob did what he thought was right. We all make our decisions on where we draw the line...
"Aaron said..."If I know someone is in the act of taking short fish (crustaceans), too many, fish out of season, or protected species, I'll call the DFG, because I believe in those laws, just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't.
"BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THOSE LAWS" that's the basis of Aaron's believed right to call the DFG...well apparently we "draw the line" on whether a law is enforceable or not based on our own set of moral rights.
Do you call the HP if you see a drunk driver, or a dangerous speeder cutting in and out of traffic endangering others? Or only...."just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't."
Who's Right? Who's Wrong? The age old question?
Let's Go Fishin'...
The Hooping should be good once this rain stops...go get some Bugs and Crabs ands enjoy the beautiful Southern California areas that are still open to us!!!!!!!!!! ......and TURN IN YOUR REPORT CARDS!!!!!!!!!!
Jim / Saba Slayer

:luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello: :luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello: :luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello: :luxhello:

[yaky yak]

Mr. Dsafety,
Your views and action are different then mine, and I let emotion over ride my common sense. If I saw someone blatantly taking a BSB, or a grossly over limit of game I may take some kind of action. I don't agree with what you did, but I shouldn't of call you a derogatory name.
It takes a lot of guts to do what you thinks right in this world. Especially when it's not excepted well.
Your views aren't mine and visa versa. I'm not apologizing, but I do admit I should keep my opinions to my self.

[yaky yak]

Mr. Dsafety,
Your views and action are different then mine, and I let emotion over ride my common sense. If I saw someone blatantly taking a BSB, or a grossly over limit of game I may take some kind of action. I don't agree with what you did, but I shouldn't of call you a derogatory name.
It takes a lot of guts to do what you thinks right in this world. Especially when it's not excepted well.
Your views aren't mine and visa versa. I'm not apologizing, but I do admit I should keep my opinions to my self.

[Aaron&Julie]

just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't.
"BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THOSE LAWS" that's the basis of Aaron's believed right to call the DFG...well apparently we "draw the line" on whether a law is enforceable or not based on our own set of moral rights.
Do you call the HP if you see a drunk driver, or a dangerous speeder cutting in and out of traffic endangering others? Or only...."just as I would call the HP (when the opportunity presented itself) if a parent is driving their child around who should be in a car seat, and isn't."
Jim / Saba Slayer

Jim, I don't know if we've met, but yeah, I would call the HP about a drunk driver or dangerous speeder, but like I said, "When the opportunity presented itself". I'm not going to risk a ticket, by talking on the cell phone while driving. And I may make the judgement call, that there's no way the HP is going to catch the guy/gal, when I call, therefore I don't call.
I like your views, but if you know Bob, whom I've nothing against, is he going to call the DFG if your fish takes you into the MLPA area?
If you know the fish are biting along the border of an MLPA area, and you hook up, is he going to call the DFG, because he had his GPS on, and you didn't and you were 50 feet beyond the border?
This topic escalated because those jackasses off of Laguna, had no license, lobster card and took dozens of under sized bugs in an MLPA area.
Most of us hate the MLPA, but as for those jackasses off of Laguna, we'd all hate them even before the MLPA.
I hate the lobster pots off of La Jolla, because my fish goes around their lines. But, I don't hate the lobster fishermen who are trying to make a living and got screwed by the MLPA, and I just won't be the one to point out their pots are over the line, to some degree. And even if you disagree with me, I won't be calling the DFG if you are hooked up or fishing in an MLPA area. Wrong is wrong.

[robmandel]

I've been following this for a bit, and hesitated to chime in, but here's the thing. there's two kinds of crimes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_in_se

Malum in se - Evil in itself. Murder, rape, assault, etc., need no proving as to the wrongness. they are evil because they are evil, and to others especially.

the other is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_prohibitum

malum prohibitum - evil because it's prohibited by law. everything from building code violations to prostituion are evil only because it's said so by law.

now, where do i draw the line? were the "violators" malum in se or malum prohibitum? obviously the latter. thus, they committed no wrong, but that proscribed by law.

I'm going to back further than Jefferson, to one of his main inspirations, John Locke:

for wherever the power, that is put in any hands for the government of the people, and the preservation of their properties, is applied to other ends, and made use of to impoverish, harass, or subdue them to the arbitrary and irregular commands of those that have it; there it presently becomes tyranny, whether those that thus use it are one or many.
...
May the commands then of a prince be opposed?
...
To this I answer, that force is to be opposed to nothing, but to unjust and unlawful force;
Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers #78 (http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa78.htm): (http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa78.htm%29:)

Limitations of this kind can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing.
...
There is no position which depends on clearer principles, than that every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.
Ok, what's that all mean. Well, laws such as the MLPA are malum prohibitum. There is nothing evil as for fishing, so much the silliness and sheer stupidity of this act that fishing 10 feet from the boundary is perfectly legal, 1 foot inside illegal. A simple legal designation, an invisible boundary, which is most difficult to ascertain and indeterminant as well (being that modern commercial GPS units will provide within 15-20 feet accuracy) is all that separates legal from otherwise.

It is in the words of John Locke (who is the philosophical forebear of the Dec. of Ind.) an act of tyranny, and thus must be opposed, with force if necessary.

As for the law itself, it runs counter to the greater laws, both constitutional and common. There is no malum in se, no harm to others, no crime being committed, yet rights clearly abridged. The law is clearly null and void. Now, the state has the guns and the wherewithal to make our lives hell, and no, I can't ask anyone here to risk theirs and their family's health and well being, despite being morally and legally justified. Even if you win, the state has rendered your life a tragedy. As Albert Jay Nock so aptly put it, "Our enemy, the state".

However, respect for the law and those who would enforce I have not. Help I will not. I will fight it as much as I can.

Let me simplify this, those who would help "enforce" the MLPA are aiding and abetting tyranny and evil.

I am sorry if you are offended by this, but there is no amelioration available, as in "I respect but...". Ain't gonna cut it. If you saw all that they did to us, and how they did it, it is a knife in our backs, and I can't lessen my feelings or moderate my words.

[Iceman]

I'm going to back further than Jefferson, to one of his main inspirations, John Locke:

Speaking of "Lost" I am stoked to watch Alcatraz tonight, I can almost close my eyes and swear it is LOST! :D

[blitzburgh]

Speaking of "Lost" I am stoked to watch Alcatraz tonight, I can almost close my eyes and swear it is LOST! :D

DUDE SERIOUSLY! I love AND hate that show already. Because you know, friggin' JJ Abrahms can take the show in a million directions and can keep you going for years & years.....dang it.

[mtnbykr2]

Speaking of "Lost" I am stoked to watch Alcatraz tonight, I can almost close my eyes and swear it is LOST! :D
too funny...but seriously I loved that show:reel:

[yaky yak]

[QUOTE=robmandel;105529]I've been following this for a bit, and hesitated to chime in, but here's the thing. there's two kinds of crimes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_in_se

Malum in se - Evil in itself. Murder, rape, assault, etc., need no proving as to the wrongness. they are evil because they are evil, and to others especially.

the other is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_prohibitum

malum prohibitum - evil because it's prohibited by law. everything from building code violations to prostituion are evil only because it's said so by law.


Well said, bring on the revolution ! Oh wait they've already stripped us of most our firearm rights, break out the sling shots!
Where does this end? Today MLPA, tomorrow they'll be putting us in re-education camps.
Our forefather couldn't hunt or fish in the kings forests, The sheriff would enforce this law for the king. Funny how history has a way of repeating its self.

[mtnbykr2]

DUDE SERIOUSLY! I love AND hate that show already. Because you know, friggin' JJ Abrahms can take the show in a million directions and can keep you going for years & years.....dang it.
That's funny I just wrote that...but forgot to hit "submit" :reel:

[BWE]

OK, 'nuff said