Becoming discouraged.. need a mentor!

[Jonesyak]

Hello fellow anglers,<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I really need some advice -
I know I have been doing this all wrong, but I am not ready to quit.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I have quite a few questions - dilemmas - problems- short comings - and a whole lot more; anyone that is really willing to read and help I cannot even begin to express how much I sincerely appreciate it.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

-First off, my situation; I simply love to fish. I have always been passionate about fishing, I started salt water fishing on the west coast from party boats several years ago. Like most people I cannot afford party boats every week. <O:p</O:p

-My interest in kayak fishing became an addiction before I knew what happened. I got my first yak in December of this year with the intent to get out on the water every weekend, (haha I wish now). This being said I am still very much an armature.<O:p</O:p


First off what I have: <O:p

-Hobie mirage classic with 2 rod holders<O:p</O:p
-Homemade bait tank and additional 2 rod holders (if I sacrifice my only dry storage)<O:p</O:p

-Tackle I bring currently = 7' w/ 2 speed and yoyo jig - - and a 8' w/ lead head and plastic grub.<O:p</O:p
(I could also bring an 8' troller with sabiki rig for making bit if I brought the bait tank)<O:p</O:p

- No electronics <O:p</O:p
(Save for a vhs radio I’m not very familiar with)<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
! SO HERE IS MY DELIEMA !
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
So far I have successfully launched and landed (without losing gear or dumping) from LJ several times now. I pedal/paddle all the way to what I think the fishing grounds are. I assume this because I see other people with yaks fishing. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Methods I have tried thus far are:<O:p</O:p
1) Trolling my lead head and 4'' grub about 30 feet behind me (on which I have cought mackerel, kelp, and jelly slime) <O:p</O:p
2) I also sink it to the bottom at completely random spots for nothing obviously. <O:p</O:p
3) Lastly, in any random spot that I am still within sight of other kayak anglers fishing I toss my yoyo jig... sometimes just in completely random spots all together.
<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
~QUESTIONS~<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Considering I am fishing with no electronics’, and currently no live bait, and I completely wasting my time randomly casting for the long lost yellowtail? Are yoyo and surface irons non-effective when the fish have not been located?<O:p</O:p

Where exactly are the fishing grounds? I don’t have gps so I cannot tell how far out I am. MLPA laws keep changing so I do my best to stay near other anglers.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Are there any rock fishing spots in LJ? Can they be found without a FF?<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

-LASTLY-<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Basically I LOVE being on the water, every time a go out it is a new adventure. However, I WOULD LIKE TO CATCH A FISH!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

If I could afford the time and money to have a master like thedarkhorse teach me I would in a heartbeat. (Someday)
<O:p</O:p
However, if anyone at all has and advice at all on how I may make my trips more successful I would love to talk about it.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
ALSO I AM PALNNING TO LAUNCH FROM LA JOLLA SATURDAY MORING - ANYONE WANT TO SHOW ME THE ROPES -PLEASE- ? <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
<O:pAaron Jones
Jonesa@coyote.csusb.edu</O:p

[RK]

Aaron do yourself a favor cut your learning curve hire josh or Kevin (darkhorse or the kid) either one will teach you a ton.

[echo1er]

just make a yak party and go with someone in LJ. Don't just go out by yourself. Invite or get invited.

[lowprofile]

or stalk them on the water. :D

the "grounds" are usually good for making bait and why alot of people congregate there but lately when i've been out i see boats and yaks hooking up outside the bait grounds.

[dc1983]

I spent almost the entire first year not catching anything at all. And i fished every weekend Then one day I caught a halibut when I released it because it was short I looked at what I was doing and continued to catch fish. All my fish have mainly been on live bait. Last weekend I went on the black pearl kayak trip and actually caught more fish on plastics in the two days there then I have since I started kayak fishing. Just keep trying one day it will all come together. I would definitely get a FF though.

[Mongo Johnson]

Aaron do yourself a favor cut your learning curve hire josh or Kevin (darkhorse or the kid) either one will teach you a ton.

I know two super noobs who scored boats at the recent Malibu blowout (thanks OEX) who'd be up for a session or two.

They're way noobier than Mr. A. Jones.

Is the preference you show rigged with his level of experience and ready to learn spots and technique; or will they accommodate noobs with supplied reel/pole/bait rigs - a getting started for the rooks session?

Cost?

For me, I'll like go Aaron's route and get up a rig and flop around on my own, listening to the forum, reading, getting a little wet.

My noob friends might belly up some cash for a getting started tour.

[tunaseeker]

HIRE KEVIN OR JOSH! Period. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
You will spend more time and money trying to figure it out, I did. Those guys are amazing fishermen. They know the grounds and will put you on fish! I spent 2 years trying to figure it out and they taught me more in a half day than I was able to figure out in my entire time at LJ. <o:p></o:p>
Kevin http://www.seasamurai.com/ (http://www.seasamurai.com/)<o:p></o:p>
Josh http://inshorekayak.com/ (http://inshorekayak.com/) <o:p></o:p>
I have a much better feel for the tackle required, technique, locations... Trust me on this one.....Just go to the website and give them a call, I did.

[467echo]

^^^^
Not to mention getting one badass pic to boot!

[Iceman]

Sounds like me, 14 years ago. I caught my first 2 WSB trolling a big Fish Trap plastic. Also caught YT and WSB on plastic and throwing iron in my first 2 Summers kayak fishing. When I started using live bait things got more consistent, I just used a Plano bucket and dunked it once in a while, I won a portable F/F and that too was a game changer in just wondering around. Simple fly lining a greenback and looking for "fishy" areas

[wiredantz]

Here my tip:





put a tracking device on Josh kayak and follow him around....




AL kidding aside....


Time on water, knowing where the fish travel to and from too... knowing how strong and where the current is moving too...


and being in the right place at the right time.... will get your a fish, took me awhile to get my first WSB.


I have gone out to La JOlla and no action!! nothing.... sometimes your there and you see them skimming over the surface of the water... sometimes you don't.... i don't know when they will feel like passing through... but they do...

you just have to be there...



Now Josh.... he knows la jolla like you know your own backyard....


he knows where the fish like to pass through... he know how to bring them in.... he is the Webster dictionary on La jolla....
just saying...

[roadx]

hire Josh or Kevin, it will re spark that passion again by landing a avatar worthy fish and getting some confidence back in knowing your in the right place doing the right thing.

Kevin http://www.seasamurai.com/ (http://www.seasamurai.com/)
Josh http://inshorekayak.com/ (http://inshorekayak.com/)

if you go out with either of the pro's? i have a fish finder you can barrow as long as you take care of it.
a livewell/bait tank is a must have item.
your welcome to fish with me but your results probably will be the same as usual

[roadx]

PM me

[bus kid]

Buy wades PA, not only is it a badass boat but it comes with a guide service if I remember correctly.

[Old Man in the Sea]

Definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results...hire josh or kevin asap - quit wasting time...Be realistic now and YES DEFINATELY > you will need to buy a bait tank and fish finder -

[mtnbykr2]

INSANITY!!!:linesnap:...:D

[Fiskadoro]

... No electronics <o:p</o.... in any random spot.....I toss my yoyo jig...completely random spots all together..... no electronics...... no live bait..... randomly casting.........don’t have gps ......can not tell how far out I am....

........ if anyone at all has and advice at all on how I may make my trips more successful I would love to talk about it.<o:p</o<o:p</o


Dude!!! Get a fish finder and GPS!

Until then I will leave you with a ancient proverb.

"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, but his chances improve dramatically if he's pulling a live mackerel."

[taggermike]

Don't beat your self up. LJ is a big place, you know there are big fish there all year long, but catching them requires a learning curve. Randomly stopping and throwing plastics and iron is not really going to get it done though. A few things I would kick out. Hire a guide if you can. Get your BAIT TANK working. One of the strongest advantages to fishing a yak is that you are going the perfect speed to troll a live bait. So do it. In the summer keep your head moving and your eyes scanning for any sign of fish, birds, or bait. Some times surface activity is obvious, other times just seeing one tern or gull circling and looking down can show you where the fish are. The birds aren't out there for fun, they're pros and on the job of finding food. Tune in to them. I don't have electronics either. I'm broke and thats a fact, but I still catch fish. You can to. It's not the same as fishing LJ but if you haven't spent some time in SD or Mission Bay you should. It's fun, you get lots of bites, and it will boost your confidence. Keep at it and keep asking questions. Mike

[mtnbykr2]

Very well put....:iagree:

[JNAST13ST]

HIRE KEVIN OR JOSH! Period. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
You will spend more time and money trying to figure it out, I did. Those guys are amazing fishermen. They know the grounds and will put you on fish! I spent 2 years trying to figure it out and they taught me more in a half day than I was able to figure out in my entire time at LJ. <o:p></o:p>
Kevin http://www.seasamurai.com/ (http://www.seasamurai.com/)<o:p></o:p>
Josh http://inshorekayak.com/ (http://inshorekayak.com/) <o:p></o:p>
I have a much better feel for the tackle required, technique, locations... Trust me on this one.....Just go to the website and give them a call, I did.
I agree man just got my first yellow after about 5 months of trying all types of techniques and spots spent a lot of wasted time hire the white donkey man he's a beast lol jk josh if your looking lol

[Jonesyak]

Thank you everyone for your encouragement!!

Believe me, as soon as I can I will hire one of the two.


However, I am launching LJ tomorrow morning (7ish) with the bait tank for the first time.

Do you guys usally just troll your baits with no weight? And how far from the yak?

[mtnbykr2]

bought sixty feet behind, hook the mack just behind the head across the back, not in the spine of course, it will kinda force the bait to swim down...weight, depends on the wind and current...use your discretion, if the fricken birds are takin' your line, you need weight...lol:linesnap:

[maui jim]

Just follow the NEW SEAFORTH around. If you get close enough the will give free irons tossed at you....;)

[Jonesyak]

When you are using a weight with live bait do you use a slip egg sinker? With or without a swivel? Or do you stick a crimp on weight a few inches back from the hook?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Also, I know I am supposed to use some sort of clip on weight with the sabiki rig... how big? And can I just rig up an egg sinker to tie on to the end?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Lastly, this is my first time making bait... which size rig should I use? I have different size set ups with different amounts of hooks...<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Last lastly lol, how many baits do you guys usually make before proceeding to fishing??<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks again!!!<o:p></o:p>

[raffman55]

When I get a bait, I pin it on and throw it out on a free line, if I get two, throw one free, one weighted, and keep the sabiki working for more. If I don't get any more action after 10-15 minutes, I move a bit, and look for surface movement. I need a battery for bait tank, but I've yakked around with a bait tube that can hold 4-6 decent greenies with no problem. If you're on bait, stay and get as much as you can if not move on. Do not be discouraged, repeat after me,"time on the water, time on the water..."

[TJones]

Thanks Josh and Kevin. :gnorsi:. Good times.

[vincentek9]

i always believe in self learning, so i can't say to hire kevin or josh (even though they DO put people on fish because they are yak gods). i would advise to buy a fish finder. you NEED to know what to look for underwater because the surface looks all the damn same.

if you cant do that.. then you do what nature does... follow the birds. you make bait at the grounds, and shove it in a bait tube (cost $5 to make). then you stare around for any activity. fish boils, or birds diving is a great thing.

[Fiskadoro]

When you are using a weight with live bait do you use a slip egg sinker? With or without a swivel? Or do you stick a crimp on weight a few inches back from the hook?ffice:office"



I nose hook my mackerel because they troll better that way.

Weight wise I flyline of there is a hot surface bite but if it's slow I just slide a half ounce egg on the line with no stop or swivel.

If there's fish working deeper I use a one and a half to three once egg, with a swivel and three feet of fluorcarbon. When fishing this way I let out sitting still, and drop it to the bottom. Then put a few cranks on to get it five feet or so up. Then troll it that far out. The idea is that when I stop to cast iron etc.. the bait will sink down till it's just off the bottom, but not drop so deep it can hang. When I'm paddling it will rise up in the water column. The faster I go the higher it get's the slower the deeper, and since I'm usually on the move covering ground looking for fish then stopping when I find them it covers a lot of the water column.

Jim

[jorluivil]

Roughly 15 trips to LJ
198 miles round trip
15 gallons of fuel per trip on average
$4.25/gallon
4-5 hours drive time round trip

When I caught my first WSB at LJ I stopped keeping track of my trips

[dwntwnall4u]

I nose hook my mackerel because they troll better that way.

Weight wise I flyline of there is a hot surface bite but if it's slow I just slide a half ounce egg on the line with no stop or swivel.

If there's fish working deeper I use a one and a half to three once egg, with a swivel and three feet of fluorcarbon. When fishing this way I let out sitting still, and drop it to the bottom. Then put a few cranks on to get it five feet or so up. Then troll it that far out. The idea is that when I stop to cast iron etc.. the bait will sink down till it's just off the bottom, but not drop so deep it can hang. When I'm paddling it will rise up in the water column. The faster I go the higher it get's the slower the deeper, and since I'm usually on the move covering ground looking for fish then stopping when I find them it covers a lot of the water column.

Jim
Thank you for the details.

[yaky yak]

I do pretty good at LJ for an out of towner. I don't spend a lot of time making bait. I have had good luck yo yoing iron. I do it all year. I like to have a surface jig set up, my yo yo jig set up, and a lighter 20# class outfit for trolling macks. I got rid of my bait tank a long time ago, and relie on a home made bait tube, works fine.
Yellows like to move around I believe so I do the same thing I am all over the place. You got to believe your going to get hit on the next cast.
I am 50/50 on catching yellows on bait and on jigs. I have a baitcasting set-up for my subiki rig. I use heavyer pound test 15 to 20# for subiki's and use a single hooked spoon on the end. I have got some good size fish on my subiki rig while trying for bait.
Getting a fish finder was a game changer. I have a cheap little humming bird FF. Less then a 100.00 I search for bait balls then drop my iron on them, works pretty good for me some times.
I may make 5 or 6 trips for nothing, but then BAM fish on. That feeling of a big beast pulling your yak around motivates me through the dry spells.
I often spend 12 hours on the water and paddle 15 miles or so around LJ. I am proof that hard work and dumb luck will get you fish if you lack skill. I have a cheap kayak, a cheap car, and cheap rods, yet still get several yellowtail each year. If I could only get a WSB now I'd be happy. Good luck and put in work, you'll get bit.

[Jonesyak]

Thank for all the advice and encouragement! Perfect advice Jim thank you.
Had a great day on the water yesterday. Cought lots of bait fish and my first yellow bite. Next week I will try again.

When putting a small FF on a yak, do you have to cut holes for the transducer? I have a decent spot to mount the monitor, just not sure where to go after that. And my 6v batt is in a soft pack behind my seat, not sure how that will play in.

[jorluivil]

Thank for all the advice and encouragement! Perfect advice Jim thank you.
Had a great day on the water yesterday. Cought lots of bait fish and my first yellow bite. Next week I will try again.

When putting a small FF on a yak, do you have to cut holes for the transducer? I have a decent spot to mount the monitor, just not sure where to go after that. And my 6v batt is in a soft pack behind my seat, not sure how that will play in.

Check the Share Your Innovations thread and check out the way others are mounting their transducers. I know there's guys out there that have cut holes in their kayak for the transducer, this is the one type of install where you measure 10 times and cut once.

[icelogger]

I appreciate the info as well. I've kayak fished 6 times and been skunked 4 times. What keeps me going is trying a new technique each time out. Tomorrow I will try and catch bait for the first time.

Good luck.

[cowboybill]

Hey, I can appreciate your pain. One of the guides is definitely a great idea.

I have been doing this for less than 3 years...

First Year I got spoiled. I slammed the YTs for a beginner. I even doubled once! I got a little cocky(time on da wata wtf!?!?)...

2nd year was very dry. While my bay fishing somewhat improved, my LJ trips were not productive (I caught some threshers, calico, misc rock fish but no YT or WSB).

Went on a 1-1/2 day boat at the end of the year and limited out on YT, got a Dorado, and won the $ pool (yahoo free trip!). That did help my confidence.

In my third year, I am learning that fishing is part art, luck and feel, mixed with science and patience. When I try too hard, get frustrated, or discouraged it doesn't work... If I dont care at all it doesnt work either!?!
There isnt an exact "what to do", but there is lots of general what to do and not do

Keep at it, keep a positive attitude (you could be working or ???)

I have been skunked, but seen some amazing cool stuff while gettn good exercise!

You gotta have a fish finder, even a cheap one! Just knowing your depth is invaluable! Trust me those guides use depth a lot!

Best wishes!:cheers1:
Cowboybill

[Jonesyak]

Thank you cowboybill! Any chance you were on the water 8/3? Watched a guy on a red revo fight a big thresher for a while... (saw your red revo in your avatar pic)<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Kayaking, and kayak fishing truly is an addiction. I am happy that I was able to get an old Hobie to beat the initial learning curve a little... however now that I am trying to get on the water at least once, if not twice a week I have decided to upgrade my yak.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
I think the one of the best pieces of advice everyone has to offer is get a FF. Even if you’re not targeting under water structure, or even fish themselves, knowing your depth is simply invaluable...
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
I started with a hobie mirage classic, and outfitter a custom bait tank and rod holders. Now that I am comfortable spending 6+ hours in the water, launching and landing with full gear, I have decided to upgrade to a outback or PA (pending funds =)
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
As far as hiring one of the pros, no matter how badly I want to, I know that once I finally do get my tail, that I will be much happier knowing I did it on my own =)<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Tight lines everyone!! :you_rock:

[cowboybill]

Naw.... wasnt me. I have a Tarpon 160... and I paddle!

Actually just picked up a hobie.. and am gettin it rigged.

One side note... My Wilderness Tarpon hull feels way better built than my hobie hull!

I almost always wear a cowboy hat out there so if you see me say howdy!

My new rig is a Sand colored Revolution 13...

cowboybill:cheers1:

[Dirty Curti]

Great thread and a lot of contribution from many. Jonesyak has asked all of the questions that are in my head as well. I've fished from cattle boats for years and it just feels different on the Kayak. No body is chumming for you, there isn't a captain putting you on a marked spot, no bait readily available. You are on your own in the elements.

My son and I hit LJ for the first time yesterday. Perfect weather, water conditions, made bait but couldn't find the fish. You start wondering if your techniques are wrong, if you're in the wrong place. I saw plenty of other yaks around but nobody was catching anything yesterday. I did see birds working outside a couple of times but I wasn't willing to paddle out there just yet. I think next time I will because several boats stayed in that are most of the time.

We will be putting our time on the water for sure but any and all advice from the experienced is grateful.