It happens... [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Fiskadoro

09-04-2013, 11:56 AM

So I'm out this morning making squid in the skiff and my outboard dies at idle, it then becomes difficult to start. I get it running do another drift and it dies again. At this point I put down my kicker and it won't start at all. It takes maybe fifteen minutes to get the outboard running again, and I headed in. At the ramp I could not even get it restarted to put it on the trailer.

Just put 40 bucks of gas in the thing, but I figure with both motors it's got to be bad fuel. I can't remember the last time technical problems forced me off the water. Should of gone Kayaking.

Jim

makobob

09-04-2013, 12:07 PM

Bummer, can happen to anyone, Check filters and take a close look at the tank, with this hot HUMID weather it might be condensed water in the fuel tank. Keep tank full and that will not happen.

Old Man in the Sea

09-04-2013, 12:08 PM

Yea I heard Fukushima’s radioactive water was beginning to cause outboard motor problems off the San Diego Coast...:sifone:

dorado50

09-04-2013, 12:22 PM

Point being...............?

ful-rac

09-04-2013, 01:19 PM

I think it's operator error....or maybe it's the radiation....nah...operator error

driftwood

09-04-2013, 01:43 PM

the same thing happen to me just a week ago Jim. The first thing that came out of my mouth was....."The sky is falling, the sky is falling, meterors are falling every day"

So now radiation is in our fuel production?

Sorry Jim couldn't help myself :D

jorluivil

09-04-2013, 02:04 PM

Here's what I think happened

A radiation burn is damage to the skin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin) or other biological tissue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_tissue) caused by exposure to radiation. The radiation types of greatest concern are thermal radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation), radio frequency energy, ultraviolet light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light) and ionizing radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation).
The most common type of radiation burn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn) is a sunburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn) caused by UV radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light). High exposure to X-rays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-rays) during diagnostic medical imaging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_imaging) or radiotherapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotherapy) can also result in radiation burns. As the ionizing radiation interacts with cells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(biology)) within the body—damaging them—the body responds to this damage, typically resulting in erythema (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythema)—that is, redness around the damaged area. Radiation burns are often associated with radiation-induced cancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation-induced_cancer) due to the ability of ionizing radiation to interact with and damage DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA), occasionally inducing a cell to become cancerous. Cavity magnetrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron) can be improperly used to create surface and internal burning. Depending on the photon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon) energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy), gamma radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray) can cause very deep gamma burns, with <SUP>60</SUP>Co (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60) internal burns are common. Beta burns tend to be shallow as beta particles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particles) are not able to penetrate deep into the person; these burns can be similar to sunburn.
Space Weather: Sunspots, Solar Flares & Coronal Mass Ejections

Nola Taylor Redd, Space.com Contributor | May 13, 2013 01:10pm ET

http://i.space.com/images/i/000/008/042/i02/516777main-EDIT.jpg?1297786934 Though the sun lies 93 million miles (149 million km) from Earth, its unceasing activity assures an impact on our planet far beyond the obvious light and heat. From a constant stream of particles in the form of solar wind to the unpredictable bombardment from solar flares and coronal mass ejections, Earth often feels the effects of its stellar companions. Less noticeable are the sunspots crossing the solar surface, though they are related to the more violent interactions. All of these fall under the definition of "space weather (http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/spaceweather.htm)."
Watch a very large solar flare:

Radiation burns can also occur with high power radio transmitters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_transmitter) at any frequency where the body absorbs radio frequency energy and converts it to heat.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference jQuery18304951587227117203="52">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_burn#cite_note-1)</SUP> The U.S. Federal Communications Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission) (FCC) considers 50 watts to be the lowest power above which radio stations must evaluate emission safety. Frequencies considered especially dangerous occur where the human body can become resonant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance), at 35 MHz, 70 MHz, 80-100 MHz, 400 MHz, and 1 GHz.<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference jQuery18304951587227117203="55">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_burn#cite_note-2)</SUP> Exposure to microwaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave) of too high intensity can cause microwave burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn).

Why is the light blue in water?

Water is intrinsically blue (http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/5.html) because of its selective absorption of the red end of the spectrum. One explanation of the Cerenkov effect in water is that the atoms in the water become excited by the Cerenkov shock wave and then de-excite, emitting blue light.
Another possible explanation is that the number of photons emitted by such a charged particle is inversely proportional to wavelength. This would mean that more photons are emitted with shorter wavelengths, thereby moving the spectrum to the blue side.

ronbo613

09-04-2013, 02:30 PM

So I'm out this morning making squid in the skiff and my outboard dies at idle, it then becomes difficult to start. I get it running do another drift and it dies again. At this point I put down my kicker and it won't start at all. It takes maybe fifteen minutes to get the outboard running again, and I headed in. At the ramp I could not even get it restarted to put it on the trailer.

Just put 40 bucks of gas in the thing, but I figure with both motors it's got to be bad fuel. I can't remember the last time technical problems forced me off the water. Should of gone Kayaking.We always used Berrymans B12 Chemtool in the gas tanks of our boat's inboard and outboard motors to get rid of moisture and keep the fuel system clean.

http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/bry/0116.jpg

Saba Slayer

09-04-2013, 03:22 PM

You didn't miss anything...my kayak ran great...I made a bunch of squid that will be Calamari dinner tonight...one huge Bat Ray a couple of nice Sandies, a few Bonito and No big fat butts !
I take it you didn't get very far south from MDR?
Jim / Saba Slayer

Roundeye

09-04-2013, 03:58 PM

Surely you and your super cool psychologist friend
with superior reading skills will be able to figure this
out.

Dim Jay

09-04-2013, 04:10 PM

So I'm out this morning making squid in the skiff and my outboard dies at idle, it then becomes difficult to start.

That's really a great feat that you were able to make squid!

Your motor sounds like it will likely be a plugged fuel intake.

Just my take.
Jay

Bubble Boy

09-04-2013, 04:11 PM

That's really a great feat, that you were able to make squid!

Your motor sounds like it will likely be a plugged fuel intake.

Just my take.
Jay

Excellent observation Jay. If there is anyone that knows motors, it is certainly you!

Dim Jay

09-04-2013, 04:11 PM

Excellent observation Jay. If there is anyone that knows motors, it is certainly you!

Thank you! It is nice to be appreciated!

Just my take.
Jay

Bubble Boy

09-04-2013, 04:12 PM

Thank you! It is nice to be appreciated!

I can't think of anyone that deserves to be appreciated more than you Jay! :you_rock:

jorluivil

09-04-2013, 04:37 PM

That's really a great feat that you were able to make squid!

Your motor sounds like it will likely be a plugged fuel intake.

Just my take.
Jay

WOW!!! Finally, someone that really knows what they're talking about.

Old Man in the Sea

09-04-2013, 04:42 PM

Jay you think it is a concurrent plugged fuel intake in both the main outboard and also the kicker - less than a 3.5% probability of that being the root cause. I think you need to get inside bubble boy's bubble and do some brainstorming with him ...2 clues...Japanese Radioactive water and the Cerenkov effect that Jorge mentioned are the key to figuring out what happened to these motors... :gnorsi:now get to work on this!!!

StinkyMatt

09-04-2013, 05:23 PM

Did you try pulling the ropy thingy with a handle on top of the motor?

If it goes wrooom, wrooom then your motor is running.

If there is no wroooom wrooom sound and no smoke then your motor no working.

I am 100 % sure about my advice.:D

MrPatrick

09-04-2013, 05:49 PM

^Classic^

paintnfish

09-04-2013, 06:09 PM

I'm going with scales in the water intake due to that
crappy bait Insein Bait Co sales, everybody knows that
theres no squid in santa monica bay.

bubblehide

09-04-2013, 06:55 PM

Surely you and your super cool psychologist friend
with superior reading skills will be able to figure this
out.

Ah, I'm super cool. Awesome.

Fiskadoro

09-04-2013, 07:15 PM

You didn't miss anything...my kayak ran great...I made a bunch of squid that will be Calamari dinner tonight...one huge Bat Ray a couple of nice Sandies, a few Bonito and No big fat butts !
I take it you didn't get very far south from MDR?
Jim / Saba Slayer

I found squid north in the buoys. Couldn't miss them: birds and marks. When I stopped there I started to realize I was in trouble.

Kinda weird though, the squid were small, not mature and all suspended from 20 to 40 feet. Underneath them were tiny 2 to 3 inch lizards. I made a dozen squid but was getting micro lizards four and five at a time on the Sabiki.

Dim Jay

09-04-2013, 07:58 PM

Here's what I think happened

A radiation burn is damage to the skin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin) or other biological tissue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_tissue) caused by exposure to radiation. The radiation types of greatest concern are thermal radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation), radio frequency energy, ultraviolet light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light) and ionizing radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation).
.

<style>  </style> Normally I like to stay out of these controversial and heated discussions, but your quote caught my eye, so I'll give my take on the whole thing.

There are only 2 possible scenarios that can happen because of this radiation crisis:

1) The Sky is truly falling, radiation is real, and we will all be dead or mutated within a few years if we don't get this radiation leak, or the ensuing radiation plume under control. Your only option now is to try to somehow start building up a tolerance to the Cesium. I have known this leak was coming since 1992, so I have been taking small cesium doses everyday to build up a tolerance.

2) You can try to convince yourself that the sky is not falling (even though it really is), and when the world ends, you might finally change your ill-informed opinion, and you will wish you weren't so hard headed. At that point it won't really matter though, because you will be dead.

Any Yellowtail Tuna or Albacores that we catch off of the kelp paddies in La Jolla will have trace amount of radiation. You are in denial if you won’t admit that.

Just my take.
Jay

Bubble Boy

09-04-2013, 08:02 PM

ful-rac

09-04-2013, 08:29 PM

OMG!!! You guys are kill'n me!!!!!

driftwood

09-04-2013, 08:45 PM

bubble boy and Dim day are holding hands tiptoeing through the tulips.
Tiny Tim - Music Video - Tiptoe Through The Tulips - YouTube (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFMQtwIwCQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsSX iLVsq0cI&ei=awsoUs_jEuKdiAK194E4&usg=AFQjCNHA5Bfi6F-CuBjxsb9TMhxUJ2YnvQ)

JPSURF

09-04-2013, 09:09 PM

Old Man in the Sea

09-04-2013, 09:18 PM

Thanks very much to Dim Jay and Bubble boy for teaming up on the solution...After the 9:06 pm edit/correction for consistency - I now think we have the best 2 probable root causes. That is provided that the rope thingy Stinky Matt mentioned was in fact utilized in the earlier attempts. :notworthy: Thanks Driftwood for providing a copy of the theme song used during the brain storming session...
This thread can be closed now...and we can go back to fishing:reeling::yt:

Drake

09-05-2013, 12:12 AM

Trace the problem...

Engines need three things
1) Air/compression
2) Fuel
3) Spark

Air is never the issue, so start at spark. Compression can obviously be an issue but it would be more pronounced symptoms.

Pull the spark plug wires and put it up against your wrist. Fire the engine. Did you get a little shock on all of them? Yes? Good sign. No? Work your way back from the engine to the battery. Everything working ok? Move to check fuel.

I'm not familiar with your setup, but if it's an outboard, you have a fuel cell, right? On that fuel cell should be an inline priming bulb? I'm sure that this isn't info you don't already know, but that priming bulb should be nice and firm. After your engine dies, if that priming bulb gets soft, you can start tracking the issue.

I think the clogged fuel intake is a spot on guess. Check the filter/coalescer depending on your set up. Injectors may be clogged too. Depends on the age and how you service your engine.

I'm sure it's nothing major. Bad fuel is a good guess too. Accidentally get diesel? Maybe there was condensation in the fuel cell? The recent heat wave can cause water to build up inside your cell/tank and depending where your pickup tube is placed you could be picking up diluted fuel.

Fiskadoro

09-05-2013, 02:45 AM

So the truth comes out....
<hr style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#FFFFFF" size="1"> "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man."

It took a while but I did some research and have found out the devastating truth behind this seemingly innocuous disaster.

Months ago a lowly French cargo carrier in route to the US from China stopped at Hisanohama harbor and unloaded part of it's cargo: 300 tons of white rubber DEVO signature suits and color matched knockoff 3M respirators to a grateful crowd of "technicians" intent on saving the world, or at the very least stopping the recent growing trend of glow in the dark bikini swimwear that was then the latest craze on Eastern Japans beaches. To compensate for the loss of cargo weight they sucked up 300 tons of bilge water to stabilize the ship. During the next six months, the Piper Maru got lost in storm, found a ancient US aircraft from world war two, circumvented Hawaii three times, the Captain went blind and coarse hair grew on the first mates palms.

It was almost by chance they found their intended destination the beautiful arches of that Golden Gate Bridge as they crossed into San Francisco Bay where they unloaded the precious cargo of bootleg DVDs, and Dyneema line cleverly labeled as Power Pro Spectra. With new found hope and the help of a new GPS fishfinder combo they purchased at West Marine (with extended warranty) they snaked their way through the Bay, up the San Joaquin through the myriad of convoluted channels to the docks of Penny Newman Grain in Stockton California. Where the dumped their bilge water and took on a load of Red winter wheat, No2 Barley and White oats.

At that exact moment I was crossing the San Joaquin river in Stockton on the 5 headed for Ephemerisle, a "floating celebration of community, learning, art", where participants construct a floating city on the Sacramento River Delta and live on it for five days. Or more direct a huge hippie Boat party. I'm not a Hippie but I build boats, enjoy a cold 12 pack, and have no problems with watching Nubile 20 somethings swimming topless in lace underwear. They needed my help building, and needed my skiff to move materials and provide logistical support (beer runs) and I was in search of stripers and a good time.

I had no knowledge of the Piper Maru. All I knew was that the cheapest location for fuel in Stockton was the Arco on West Freemont directly across the river from Newman Grain. I purchased 30 gallons of fuel there. Filing my tank, my 2hp Honda, and a couple of 5 gallon poly fuel cans totally unaware that I'd taken on a ticking Japanese nuclear time bomb.

The event went great, the beer if not cold was still good, whiskey flowwed and the women were friendly, gorgeous, gregarious, forthcoming, and accommodating. It was unbelievably awesome in general.

45 days later I now know the hidden terror that lurked in the shadows behind the shiny lights and skimpy costumes. A veritable demon with the ability to change chemical compounds and increase decrepitude lurked in my various fuel systems.

Yes... I was wrong. We are not out of the range of Fukashima. I don't know the exact mechanism involved, perhaps the ARCO tanks absorbed some of that tainted bilge water from the river, perhaps trace airborne amounts made it into my tanks vent hole, but Fukashima got me.

Don't believe me? You say you need proof? BS without pics or extended peer reviewed evidence. Well my friends I HAVE JUST THE EVIDENCE YOU ARE ASKING FOR!!!!

Behold two beakers:

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6297/los1.jpg

Now that's not a scene from Breaking Bad, that's two containers of fuel. The one on the left is 3 month old gas out of my R65 BMW that I need to make a new drive shaft for, and the one on the right is the 45 day old Fukashima contaminated Fuel I pulled out of my two month old 2hp Honda kicker. The fuel in my main tank tank doesn't look that bad as it's been diluted numerous times but it still had a unnatural nuclear orange yellow tint to it, and now has to be discarded. Like Roy Batty I'm now the victim of accelerated decrepitude of precious fluids do to a unnatural man made phenomena.

Out of MDR bravely fighting off a huge wave of viscous lizards in search of the legendary Santa Monica Bay Calamari my boats main source of power was usurped by tainted fuel, choked down to the point it would not fire, and my kicker, my lovely, little, ultra dependable, ultra light, 4stroke, low maintenance and trouble free Honda, would not even start to save US. Yes the sky is falling and like a mighty leviathan it landed on my boats head.

Call me Ishmael.... I alone survived to tell the tale.

Let this sad tale be a lesson to all intrepid anglers and seafarers alike. No one is out of the long reach of Fukushima!!!!

"Oh, no, they say he's got to go
Go go Godzilla
Oh, no, there goes Tokyo
Go go Fukushima"

History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of man
Fukushima!

http://www.freewebs.com/godzilla14freak/godzilla.jpg

Fiskadoro

09-05-2013, 04:05 AM

So on that note :D

First off I want to thank everyone that actually gave me advice. It was just bad fuel like I thought. I've never seen anything like it. The Fuel in the Honda tank looked like dark orange tinted beer and even the tank in my skiff had a weird yellow orange color to it even though I figure the Stockton fuel couldn't make up more then a 1/3 of the tank.

The Honda has a a clogged carb so I'm going to have to disassemble it. I changed out the fuel filter on the Suzuki and cleaned the plugs and it fired right up on clean fuel. The plugs weren't really fouled but the did have a weird orange tint to them almost like the had been lightly sprayed with fluorescent orange spray.

Weird weird weird!!!! I've worked on vehicles and fuel systems my whole life and I have never seen anything even remotely like this.

To the guys that are having good natured fun in the thread: You guys are the best. I love this site and these boards and the positive fun spirit you bring to this site makes it one of the best on the web.

Saba Slayer

09-05-2013, 06:28 AM

"To the guys that are having good natured fun in the thread: You guys are the best. I love this site and these boards and the positive fun spirit you bring to this site makes it one of the best on the web.

...Nice...I like to take the High Road sometimes too Jim...!
Jim / Saba Slayer

Old Man in the Sea

09-05-2013, 07:32 AM

Perfect now all 3 problems are solved - we finally know where the bootleg DVDs, the 2lb spectra and the tainted gas came from...:kayak-surfer:
got rid of the bad gas and carb clean and we are back in the fishing business:reeling::wsb::yt:

ful-rac

09-05-2013, 07:35 AM

So on that note :D
To the guys that are having good natured fun in the thread: You guys are the best. I love this site and these boards and the positive fun spirit you bring to this site makes it one of the best on the web.

Wow Jim! Looks like those therapy sessions at bubbleboys office are working! Beakers...really? whataya a mad scientist too!? Or ya cook'n up fresh batch a crank? :cheers1:

DanaPT

09-05-2013, 12:22 PM

I'd like to hear more about this....

The event went great, the beer if not cold was still good, whiskey flowwed and the women were friendly, gorgeous, gregarious, forthcoming, and accommodating. It was unbelievably awesome in general.

:luxhello: