Can You Carry a Concealed Weapon on a Kayak

[ROOKIE87]

Hey guys,

Excuse me if i sound like a little B... but this last summer of fishing where whites have been poking up has put me a little on edge. My question to you is if we can carry while on a kayak? If not I was thinking about maybe buying a shark shield. What are your ideas? I thought by buying a hobie proangler I was going to be more safe, but I been hearing the peddles look like flippers in the water.

[jorluivil]

Isn't it illegal to kill a GWS?

[Cadillyak]

Personally, I worry about the ones that I don't see more than the ones that I do see. I think that most know what they are getting into when launching into the ocean. There are still creatures popping up that have never been seen before. It's a risk we all take as kayakers. It's like race car driving and knowing that there is always that possibility, but you still do it because it is what you love. But as I digress, I am not sure you can carry conceal on a kayak.

[ROOKIE87]

Isn't it illegal to kill a GWS?

It is absolutely illegal, it would be a last ditch effort if i was getting attacked. And i agree we take the inherent risk because it's their playground, but i always like to be prepared for whatever comes my way. I was even thinking m80's for the vibration, but I do get where you are coming from. I just rather take the precautions if there are any...

[maui jim]

I just tell the GWS where team sewer fishes, usually works...:cool:

[wiredantz]

A flare gun works both ways:D

[dorado50]

[QUOTE=ROOKIE87;176743]It is absolutely illegal, it would be a last ditch effort if i was getting attacked.

For real?....:confused:

[ROOKIE87]

[QUOTE=ROOKIE87;176743]It is absolutely illegal, it would be a last ditch effort if i was getting attacked.

For real?....:confused:
Yea, absolutely... If it were a possibility...

[ROOKIE87]

A flare gun works both ways:D
Never thought of that... That's a great idea! :):luxhello:

[Aaron&Julie]

It is absolutely illegal, it would be a last ditch effort if i was getting attacked. And i agree we take the inherent risk because it's their playground, but i always like to be prepared for whatever comes my way. I was even thinking m80's for the vibration, but I do get where you are coming from. I just rather take the precautions if there are any...

Stay on your kayak!

If it's concealed, and a GWS has created a last ditch effort by knocking you out of your kayak, and it is so damn aggresive that you don't have the time to get back up on your kayak, then you don't have time to get your weapon. I can remount in less than 30 seconds, probably 5 seconds if a GWS just knocked me into the drink, which is much quicker than trying to get out the "concealed weapon". If you can't remount in 30 seconds, that is what you need to practice on, now.

If he capsized the kayak you won't be able to get to your weapon easily, either, and your best bet would be to jump up onto the bottom of your kayak and lay there until it leaves, after it realizes you're not the food it hoped for. Either way you're screwed when it comes to locating/using a "concealed weapon".

Just my 2 cents.

Aaron

[Zed]

Hey rookie think about this.
If I lived someplace where I felt the NEED to carry concealed -- other than a LEO-- I would move. If I felt the NEED to carry on a yak Id quit. Simple solution.

[danjor]

My opinion: If its my time to go its my time to go. Plus its highly unlikely it will happen.

Copy paste from natgeo website[/CODE]
SHARK ATTACK FACTS
Surfers accounted for 50.8% of all attacks in 2010.

Swimmers and Waders accounted for 38% of all attacks in 2010.

Snorkelers and divers accounted for 8% of all attacks in 2010.

Inflatable rafts/inner tubes accounted for 3% of attacks in 2010.
2010 was the most dangerous year for unprovoked shark attacks in a decade with 79.

Over the last half-century, there have been more unprovoked shark attacks in Florida (27 out of a total 139) between 2-3 pm than any other time of the day.

New Smyrna Beach in Florida is the shark attack capital of the world according to ISAF. It is estimated that anyone who has swam there has been within 10ft of a shark.

September is the month with the most Shark attacks in Florida (93) 1920-2010.

Since 1907 201 out 220 Great White Attacks have occurred when the human was less than 6ft from the surface.

You have a 1 in 63 chance of dying from the flu and a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark during your lifetime.

Over 17,000 people die from falls each year. That's a 1 in 218 chance over your lifetime, compared to a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark.

In 1996, toilets injured 43,000 Americans a year. Sharks injured 13.

1n 1996, buckets and pails injured almost 11,000 Americans. Sharks injured 13.

In 1996, 2600 Americans were injured by room fresheners. Sharks injured 13.

The US averages just 19 shark attacks each year and one shark-attack fatality every two years. Meanwhile, in the coastal U.S. states alone, lightning strikes and kills more than 37 people each year.

Since 1959, Florida has had more shark attacks (603) than lightning fatalities (459).

Since 1959, California has had more shark attacks than lightning fatalities (89/30).

Since 1959, Hawaii has had 97 Shark attacks but no lightning fatalities.

Only 5 people die from shark attacks yearly, while millions of people die from starvation.

Since 1905, Natal (where Durban is) has had 89 shark attacks and 27 fatalities.
For every human killed by a shark, humans kill approximately two million sharks.

[ROOKIE87]

My opinion: If its my time to go its my time to go. Plus its highly unlikely it will happen.

Copy paste from natgeo website[/CODE]
SHARK ATTACK FACTS
Surfers accounted for 50.8% of all attacks in 2010.

Swimmers and Waders accounted for 38% of all attacks in 2010.

Snorkelers and divers accounted for 8% of all attacks in 2010.

Inflatable rafts/inner tubes accounted for 3% of attacks in 2010.
2010 was the most dangerous year for unprovoked shark attacks in a decade with 79.

thanks for putting that into perspective brotha, you are right...
Over the last half-century, there have been more unprovoked shark attacks in Florida (27 out of a total 139) between 2-3 pm than any other time of the day.

New Smyrna Beach in Florida is the shark attack capital of the world according to ISAF. It is estimated that anyone who has swam there has been within 10ft of a shark.

September is the month with the most Shark attacks in Florida (93) 1920-2010.

Since 1907 201 out 220 Great White Attacks have occurred when the human was less than 6ft from the surface.

You have a 1 in 63 chance of dying from the flu and a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark during your lifetime.

Over 17,000 people die from falls each year. That's a 1 in 218 chance over your lifetime, compared to a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark.

In 1996, toilets injured 43,000 Americans a year. Sharks injured 13.

1n 1996, buckets and pails injured almost 11,000 Americans. Sharks injured 13.

In 1996, 2600 Americans were injured by room fresheners. Sharks injured 13.

The US averages just 19 shark attacks each year and one shark-attack fatality every two years. Meanwhile, in the coastal U.S. states alone, lightning strikes and kills more than 37 people each year.

Since 1959, Florida has had more shark attacks (603) than lightning fatalities (459).

Since 1959, California has had more shark attacks than lightning fatalities (89/30).

Since 1959, Hawaii has had 97 Shark attacks but no lightning fatalities.

Only 5 people die from shark attacks yearly, while millions of people die from starvation.

Since 1905, Natal (where Durban is) has had 89 shark attacks and 27 fatalities.
For every human killed by a shark, humans kill approximately two million sharks.


thanks for the perspective brotha ur right

[danjor]

Your more likely to get injured taking a dump than getting attacked let alone get eaten by a shark.... stay on your yak play smart and be safe around toilets, apparently there really dangerous lol

[ROOKIE87]

Hey rookie think about this.
If I lived someplace where I felt the NEED to carry concealed -- other than a LEO-- I would move. If I felt the NEED to carry on a yak Id quit. Simple solution.

I get your point, it's just one of the crap things about over analyzing.

[ROOKIE87]

Stay on your kayak!

If it's concealed, and a GWS has created a last ditch effort by knocking you out of your kayak, and it is so damn aggresive that you don't have the time to get back up on your kayak, then you don't have time to get your weapon. I can remount in less than 30 seconds, probably 5 seconds if a GWS just knocked me into the drink, which is much quicker than trying to get out the "concealed weapon". If you can't remount in 30 seconds, that is what you need to practice on, now.

If he capsized the kayak you won't be able to get to your weapon easily, either, and your best bet would be to jump up onto the bottom of your kayak and lay there until it leaves, after it realizes you're not the food it hoped for. Either way you're screwed when it comes to locating/using a "concealed weapon".

Just my 2 cents.

Aaron

thanks for the insite brotha, I was thinking a glock like in my life jacket so I would be in the water with it.

[maui jim]

I have been giving some thought....:confused:
I say you go ask for advise form the "Seal Lady" by the Children's Pool in La Jolla, and ask the always kind, always warm and friendly, and ever knowing "Seal Lady" be sure to show her what you will be using, there might be a caliber restriction, but she will know.. She will most likely sign off on this... and presto...changeo...All Good!!
She does have alot of pull with the local authorties, since she is a pillar of the community.

Just a thought..:cool:

[ROOKIE87]

I have been giving some thought....:confused:
I say you go ask for advise form the "Seal Lady" by the Children's Pool in La Jolla, and ask the always kind, always warm and friendly, and ever knowing "Seal Lady" be sure to show her what you will be using, there might be a caliber restriction, but she will know.. She will most likely sign off on this... and presto...changeo...All Good!!
She does have alot of pull with the local authorties, since she is a pillar of the community.

Just a thought..:cool:

Lol, will she bail me out if her info is incorrect?

[danjor]

Lol, will she bail me out if her info is incorrect?

Only if buy her a seal furr coat. Hence why she is called the seal lady she loves seal.:D

[ROOKIE87]

Only if buy her a seal furr coat. Hence why she is called the seal lady she loves seal.:D

sweet, I'll work on that lol

[jruiz]

My opinion: If its my time to go its my time to go. Plus its highly unlikely it will happen.

Copy paste from natgeo website[/CODE]
SHARK ATTACK FACTS
Surfers accounted for 50.8% of all attacks in 2010.

Swimmers and Waders accounted for 38% of all attacks in 2010.

Snorkelers and divers accounted for 8% of all attacks in 2010.

Inflatable rafts/inner tubes accounted for 3% of attacks in 2010.
2010 was the most dangerous year for unprovoked shark attacks in a decade with 79.

Over the last half-century, there have been more unprovoked shark attacks in Florida (27 out of a total 139) between 2-3 pm than any other time of the day.

New Smyrna Beach in Florida is the shark attack capital of the world according to ISAF. It is estimated that anyone who has swam there has been within 10ft of a shark.

September is the month with the most Shark attacks in Florida (93) 1920-2010.

Since 1907 201 out 220 Great White Attacks have occurred when the human was less than 6ft from the surface.

You have a 1 in 63 chance of dying from the flu and a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark during your lifetime.

Over 17,000 people die from falls each year. That's a 1 in 218 chance over your lifetime, compared to a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark.

In 1996, toilets injured 43,000 Americans a year. Sharks injured 13.

1n 1996, buckets and pails injured almost 11,000 Americans. Sharks injured 13.

In 1996, 2600 Americans were injured by room fresheners. Sharks injured 13.

The US averages just 19 shark attacks each year and one shark-attack fatality every two years. Meanwhile, in the coastal U.S. states alone, lightning strikes and kills more than 37 people each year.

Since 1959, Florida has had more shark attacks (603) than lightning fatalities (459).

Since 1959, California has had more shark attacks than lightning fatalities (89/30).

Since 1959, Hawaii has had 97 Shark attacks but no lightning fatalities.

Only 5 people die from shark attacks yearly, while millions of people die from starvation.

Since 1905, Natal (where Durban is) has had 89 shark attacks and 27 fatalities.
For every human killed by a shark, humans kill approximately two million sharks.

I wouldn't base too much on these statistics. They at many times, and I think it applies in this case, apply the analysis as if the audience was part of the general population. For instance they may say that 10 people died this year as a result of a shark attack. With the US being a population of 300M you then had a 1 in 30M chance of dieing as a result of a shark attack. Reality is we expose ourselves to more risk than the general population that's characterized in these statistics. What are the chances of a homeless man that's landlocked in a Midwestern state of being attacked by a shark let alone ever seeing the ocean?

[danjor]

I wouldn't base too much on these statistics. They at many times, and I think it applies in this case, apply the analysis as if the audience was part of the general population. For instance they may say that 10 people died this year as a result of a shark attack. With the US being a population of 300M you then had a 1 in 3M chance of dieing as a result of a shark attack. Reality is we expose ourselves to more risk than the general population that's characterized in these statistics. What are the chances of a homeless man that's landlocked in a Midwestern state of being attacked by a shark let alone ever seeing the ocean?

Sharknado duu lol

[tacmik]

If you shoot a great white, all your going to do is piss it off.

[Raskal311]

Worrying about sharks in our area is a little silly isn't it? I dive at night and it'd the last thing I think about. Besides by the time it got your leg the gun tucked away in a dry box is useless.

[easyday]

you would have to carry a very large caliber high powered rifle to even puncture the skin, or maybe a shotgun. Bullets dont work well under water at all, which is where you would be, and if your that worried stay off the water......

[jorluivil]

you would have to carry a very large caliber high powered rifle to even puncture the skin, or maybe a shotgun. Bullets dont work well under water at all, which is where you would be, and if your that worried stay off the water......


My old boss used to say, "Always expect the worst, if nothing bad happens than it was a good day"

[easyday]

Yea I agree but carrying a sawed off shotgun on the yak is a bit extreme, id hate to have to clean that thing after saltwater exposure all day. Cleaning a gun that has been covered in salt water is deff no fun

[ROOKIE87]

you would have to carry a very large caliber high powered rifle to even puncture the skin, or maybe a shotgun. Bullets dont work well under water at all, which is where you would be, and if your that worried stay off the water......

I know I'm new here but all I asked was a simple question as I'm ignorant on the subject and anyone would be lying if they never thought of this. But yea man after seeing the sewer bass fishing video I think ill just give away my pro angler

[easyday]

Now some people on here will argue with me on this but I do carry a paintball gun a little c02 powered one to deal with the seals while hooping but thats a total different subject

[kayachapi]

I got to work in Monterey for 18 months about 10 yrs ago. I started spearfishing for something to do while staying away from home. Wetsuit and all my gear was black, could only go in the afternoon/evening, and if I was lucky (because I wasn't good) I was trailing blood. A surfer was bitten just north of where I was, and thats when I found out on the radio those were the three things not to do, to avoid being attacked. I wasn't able to change a lot of what I was doing, but was definitely more aware of my surroundings. Never saw a big grey suburban swim by me. Just lucky? Loved it up there. But I'm definitely getting rid of those air fresheners!

[Drake]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned before but here goes.

Carry and modified Powerhead if you are seriously concerned. As far as I know they are legal to carry when diving because only until they are mounted on the shaft of the spear are they considered a firearm and if you're mounting it, you're in danger.

Look up some more info on them because I could be wrong. You can make them quite easily, and I feel like you could easily modify one to work on a gaff.

I have a .40 Powerhead I've dove with after a Mako encounter last summer.

Additionally, you could carry a powerhead with a blank round and skip all the legal BS. The bang, and pressure alone would keep any moving creature away

[alanw]

Hey guys,

My question to you is if we can carry while on a kayak?

There is an exemption in the Ca PC that allows you to carry without a license while hunting and fishing, but you will also be subject to local laws and regulations.

A better place to start your search is over at CalGuns http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=271156

[bubblehide]

Yep, once on the water (public), it's 100% legal. I don't leave the house without one of mine. But I would be much more worried about land sharks, than those in the water.

[Dannowar]

Dude if you're afraid enough to carry a gun on a kayak then maybe you need a new "safe" hobby.

If a shark wants you to die, you will die, before you even realize what happened.

[TCS]

This just in:

A kayak fisherman bled to death off the coast of La Jolla after shooting himself in the leg. According to his fishing buddies the man was attempting to shoot a large opah swimming below his kayak which he mistook for a shark.......

[Fishwhisperer619]

I've only seen an opah once but I don't know how anyone can confuse one for a shark. I think he was just fooling around or pulled a plaxico

[Dannowar]

I've only seen an opah once but I don't know how anyone can confuse one for a shark. I think he was just fooling around or pulled a plaxico

Poor plaxico. The only safety he beat all year

[makoslayer]

ya'll are funny! I see people carry rifles/pistols all the time in VA..mostly to take out those big Bluefins before they get em on the boat lol

[Carp]

Hey guys,

Excuse me if i sound like a little B... but this last summer of fishing where whites have been poking up has put me a little on edge. My question to you is if we can carry while on a kayak? If not I was thinking about maybe buying a shark shield. What are your ideas? I thought by buying a hobie proangler I was going to be more safe, but I been hearing the peddles look like flippers in the water.

Yes
Per
"PC§ 25640. Possession by Person Engaged in Hunting or Fishing
Section 25400 (PC§ 25400. Concealed Firearm; Punishment) does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing , or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=25001-26000&file=25600-25655

[ronbo613]

Seen plenty of sharks in my time kayak fishing and surfing in San Diego county and Baja, never even considered hauling a gun around. If a shark big enough to eat you decides to do so, it will be over before you know what hit you. When you paddle out in the ocean you take your chances in any number of ways, if you don't want to risk it, stay on shore. Probably drop the gun over the side anyways.
I do carry a sidearm when camping while kayak fishing in the Cascade Mountains because the fish smell attracts bears and cougars. Don't want to kill them but a couple rounds usually scares them off. Does that count?

http://www.watermanatwork.com/KayakFishing/KayakFishingPhotos/PacNWPhotos/PacNWFishCamp6-19-12_2.jpg

[CKallday71]

When it's your time it's your time. Besides, how freaking cool would it be to have, Here lies so and so, he was eaten by a shark while doing something he loved.

That would be an EPIC headstone! I'm in!

[alanw]

ya'll are funny! I see people carry rifles/pistols all the time in VA..mostly to take out those big Bluefins before they get em on the boat lol

Unfortunately CA isn't one of the free states

[CKallday71]

Only predators I worry about are bipedal.

[bigbarrels]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s





My opinion: If its my time to go its my time to go. Plus its highly unlikely it will happen.

Copy paste from natgeo website[/CODE]
SHARK ATTACK FACTS
Surfers accounted for 50.8% of all attacks in 2010.



Swimmers and Waders accounted for 38% of all attacks in 2010.

Snorkelers and divers accounted for 8% of all attacks in 2010.

Inflatable rafts/inner tubes accounted for 3% of attacks in 2010.
2010 was the most dangerous year for unprovoked shark attacks in a decade with 79.


Over the last half-century, there have been more unprovoked shark attacks in Florida (27 out of a total 139) between 2-3 pm than any other time of the day.

New Smyrna Beach in Florida is the shark attack capital of the world according to ISAF. It is estimated that anyone who has swam there has been within 10ft of a shark.

September is the month with the most Shark attacks in Florida (93) 1920-2010.

Since 1907 201 out 220 Great White Attacks have occurred when the human was less than 6ft from the surface.

You have a 1 in 63 chance of dying from the flu and a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark during your lifetime.

Over 17,000 people die from falls each year. That's a 1 in 218 chance over your lifetime, compared to a 1 in 3,700,000 chance of being killed by a shark.

In 1996, toilets injured 43,000 Americans a year. Sharks injured 13.

1n 1996, buckets and pails injured almost 11,000 Americans. Sharks injured 13.

In 1996, 2600 Americans were injured by room fresheners. Sharks injured 13.

The US averages just 19 shark attacks each year and one shark-attack fatality every two years. Meanwhile, in the coastal U.S. states alone, lightning strikes and kills more than 37 people each year.

Since 1959, Florida has had more shark attacks (603) than lightning fatalities (459).

Since 1959, California has had more shark attacks than lightning fatalities (89/30).

Since 1959, Hawaii has had 97 Shark attacks but no lightning fatalities.

Only 5 people die from shark attacks yearly, while millions of people die from starvation.

Since 1905, Natal (where Durban is) has had 89 shark attacks and 27 fatalities.
For every human killed by a shark, humans kill approximately two million sharks.

[easyday]

Yes
Per
"PC§ 25640. Possession by Person Engaged in Hunting or Fishing
Section 25400 (PC§ 25400. Concealed Firearm; Punishment) does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing , or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=25001-26000&file=25600-25655

Hmmm now I know there was an exception for hunting and fishing. So technically speaking you could conceal legally while fishing from the pier, as long as you unloaded it before heading to the car.

[bubblehide]

Yes
Per
"PC§ 25640. Possession by Person Engaged in Hunting or Fishing
Section 25400 (PC§ 25400. Concealed Firearm; Punishment) does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing , or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=25001-26000&file=25600-25655


There is an exception to most everything: It is not legal to be in possession of a firearm while bow hunting during the bow season.

[CKallday71]

There is an exception to most everything: It is not legal to be in possession of a firearm while bow hunting during the bow season.

Well, if you get cited while bow hunting for having a pistol on you, just tell the officer that you're fishing while bow hunting... Handled! :):)

[bus kid]

you would have to carry a very large caliber high powered rifle to even puncture the skin, or maybe a shotgun. Bullets dont work well under water at all, which is where you would be, and if your that worried stay off the water......

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j9pPVwdMFg0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AK
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cp5gdUHFGIQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Put yourself in the sharks fins. Imagine if you were sitting at home minding your own business.You get up to get a bite to ear and some jacka$$ in Tupperware comes in your house and busted a cap in your coolo.

Your in his house. Respect if you cant do that fish Irvine lake.

[Fiskadoro]

I have no idea while people think it's illegal to carry a pistol or any gun on a kayak or boat. It's completely legal once your on the water, just don't go into Mexican waters carrying one.

The big issue though is at the launch. While your on land you should not have the weapon on you or even loaded. If you want to carry a handgun put it in a drybag unloaded with the ammo stored in another bag.

I've occasionally taken a Model 642 38 S&W with me fishing.http://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/handgun-revolver-smith-and-wesson-m642-163810-38-1-78-ss.jpg (http://truthaboutguns.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Smith-Wesson-Pro-Series-Model-640-amnd-some-of-the-money-needed-to-buy-it-courtesy-The-Truth-About-Guns.jpg)
Don't forget to clean and oil it.

As to shooting sharks the last thing I'd ever want to shoot is a protected species like a Great White. That said if I was on the water and a Great White was actively attacking my Kayak and I had a 38 with me I'd shoot it in a heartbeat. As many times as I could right in the head.

Also as far as the effects of guns on sharks goes... Well I used to fish sharks all the time and we used to shoot our Makos and threshers with a 22 long rifle in the head. Maybe it didn't kill them but it would stun them to the point they couldn't do anything,

For instance this Adult T fought for over and hour and drug us five miles but once we gaffed her with the fly gaff she took off so hard she almost ripped the cleat right off the boat. We shot her with the 22 maybe four times in the head and after that we had no problem pulling her back to the boat, tying her along side and cutting her gills and spinal cord.

http://www.allcoast.com/photos/data/500/100343BGthresh3.jpg

I'm not saying that anyone should carry a gun or that it's necessary but it is legal, and though I think the risk of white attack is minimal, just logistically from my experience shooting a shark definitely does have an effect on it and if you hit in the brain stem or cord it would incapacitate it.

[ful-rac]

I've occasionally taken a Model 642 38 S&W with me fishing




Holy SH*^!

Don't mess with jimday he'll bust a cap in yo' punk ass! :eek:

[wiredantz]

Unfortunately CA isn't one of the free states

Land of the Free:


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Remember guys:



Fish here, not here:



http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/darkmatrix84/83fa3784-b9c0-49cc-bb54-5fcec6c6dc20_zps3debf61d.png


NEW MLPA ZONE:

We now can only fish inside the yellow markers . By the way, congratulations, we live in the land of the free.

[ronbo613]

That said is I was on the water and a Great White was actively attacking my Kayak and I had a 38 with me I'd shoot it in a heartbeat. As many times as I could right in the head.

If you are in a close quarters fire fight with a great white shark using a 1" barrel pistol, be careful not to shoot a hole in your kayak, otherwise you'd be on a sinking boat with sharks in the water...
We've always talked about which weapon we would take if we were sailing the ocean blue, mostly as defense against pirates. The reality is many countries frown upon firearms on boats, entering such a country's waters with one can result in serious consequences; Mexico is one of those countries.

[jruiz]

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j9pPVwdMFg0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

AK
<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cp5gdUHFGIQ" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>


Put yourself in the sharks fins. Imagine if you were sitting at home minding your own business.You get up to get a bite to ear and some jacka$$ in Tupperware comes in your house and busted a cap in your coolo.

Your in his house. Respect if you cant do that fish Irvine lake.

Amen. Whether it's with sharks in the water or bears/lions/chupacabras in the forest. People forget that they're out there for fun. These creatures are out there doing what they naturally do. Just because they interrupt your fun doesn't give you any right to put them down. If you do then you need to get over yourself.

[wiredantz]

Amen. Whether it's with sharks in the water or bears/lions/chupacabras in the forest. People forget that they're out there for fun. These creatures are out there doing what they naturally do. Just because they interrupt your fun doesn't give you any right to put them down. If you do then you need to get over yourself.


That is exactly right, when i go camping i expect to see bears.

Now, if a bear approaches i'll try to scare it off. :rolleyes:
If it attacks, its a different story. :doh:

plain and simple

That is the difference between the people who survive, and the people who do not.

[Fiskadoro]

If you are in a close quarters fire fight with a great white shark using a 1" barrel pistol, be careful not to shoot a hole in your kayak


Yup and I'll be careful of my nuts too because I'm really dumb enough to shoot my own nuts off....NOT!!! :D


I gather you've never fired a 642 Airweight. I think the barrel is 1 7/8 but they are actually remarkably accurate. They also have a very stiff trigger pull so it's not like you could pull the trigger without meaning to.

I've had weapons all my life and the most important rule is never point it at anything you do not want to shoot. I can't recall how many times I've discharged a weapon (too many to count), but I can tell you that I've never shot anything I did not intend to shoot.

Shooting your own kayak would be pretty damn stupid, I wouldn't suggest it but you could probably fill a bullet hole in a kayak with a piece of tee-shirt in under a few minutes. Now shoot a hole through the side of your sportfisher when you've been running a chum slick for several hours...... now that would be unfortunate because in order to patch the thing you'd have to jump into the slick.

Like I said I've carried weapons on the water before. Shark fisherman often carry weapons to shoot their sharks and they sure as hell know better then to shoot their own boat.

[SirGeorgeKillian]

Here in the great state of South Carolina, there is no need to carry concealed. You can carry open while on the way to, from, or during a hunt or fishing as long as you have the appropriate hunting or fishing license.
We got gators here. I carry religiously. Frog lube keeps the rusty bits from growing.

[ronbo613]

I gather you've never fired a 642 Airweight. I think the barrel is 1 7/8 but they are actually remarkably accurate. They also have a very stiff trigger pull so it's not like you could pull the trigger without meaning to.


No, I can't say that I have. I'm sure the Airweight is a fine weapon.
To be honest, I'm not really a fan of handguns at all, even though I own one. While they are easier to carry around, if I am in a situation where I need to shoot something, I would prefer to shoot it at the maximum possible distance from me as possible, so I prefer something with a longer barrel, which most likely would be not concealable and off topic here.

[bus kid]

No, I can't say that I have. I'm sure the Airweight is a fine weapon.
To be honest, I'm not really a fan of handguns at all, even though I own one. While they are easier to carry around, if I am in a situation where I need to shoot something, I would prefer to shoot it at the maximum possible distance from me as possible, so I prefer something with a longer barrel, which most likely would be not concealable and off topic here.

X2
big boom good.

[Jimmyz123]

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j9pPVwdMFg0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

AK
<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cp5gdUHFGIQ" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>


Put yourself in the sharks fins. Imagine if you were sitting at home minding your own business.You get up to get a bite to ear and some jacka$$ in Tupperware comes in your house and busted a cap in your coolo.

Your in his house. Respect if you cant do that fish Irvine lake.

X2 get a bigger boat if you're that worried.

[alanw]

It's funny how someone asks if you can carry and more than half the people here just give reasons why you shouldn't or don't need to. The question is if you can, not why would you need to. In other free states it's not even a question, it's a right and in fact common place. This state used to be that way too but the anti's here are brainwashing people into believing that guns are evil and they don't need to carry, and alot of people believe they don't even have the right.

[Drake]

You're more likely to need a lightning rod or a defibrillator before needing to defend against a shark.

[Fiskadoro]

.... if I am in a situation where I need to shoot something, I would prefer to shoot it at the maximum possible distance from me as possible, so I prefer something with a longer barrel, which most likely would be not concealable....

X2 big boom good.

Alright it's not like I'm advocating carrying guns for Great White protection because the idea is silly, but if you were kayaking and a Great White was chewing on your yak having a handgun would be better thing to have then a rifle.

A rifle is big, where are you going to put it where you can get it quick when a shark comes out of nowhere and starts chewing your leg.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JBZsMYgJPlo/T4Wk4XdlFDI/AAAAAAAAADs/FYqmN7Dc_fc/s800/P1000357.JPG
I wouldn't want to launch with that.

It's not going to fit in the rod holder or even your center hatch. A handgun can be in your pocket, in a holster or in the hatch in front of you.


You shoot a White ten feet away that's swimming towards you you're breaking the law.

http://lunar.thegamez.net/fishingtips/shark-fishing-tips/fishing-kayak-suppliers-kayak-sa-kayaks-and-fishing-kayak-600x450.jpg
The only reason to shoot one is if it's chewing on your yak or leg.

In other words it's going to be very close.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TN08Lc6mXsY/TpwHUFCOATI/AAAAAAAAG_I/JqPohD_MYAU/s400/KayakShark.jpg
Maybe right next to you, maybe chewing on the yak, maybe chewing on the yak behind your seat. Ever try to shoot something behind you with a rifle?http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/Annie-Oakley-shooting-over-shoulder-631.jpg

All this shooting under water stuff is nonsense. If I white is attacking in you end up in the water the best thing you can do is get back in the kayak. Not to mention it's one thing to shoot your favorite AK sitting on the bottom of the pool it's another to be treading water with it waiting for a white to get close enough for it to be effective.

That said if you did end up in the water with a gun in your hand you better hope it's a handgun..
http://cjonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/editorial/images/200910/65473_web_091002rotc237.jpg
http://www.policemag.com/_Images/articles/water-train-5-2.jpg

Balance: Paddling a kayak is a learned behavior where you master a assortment of dexterity issues like basic balance. Firing a shotgun or rifle takes a certain amount of balance not to mention the proper stance.

http://assets.diyfail.com/hashed_silo_content/silo_content/24628/resized/fail.jpg

Some Yakkers can loose their sense of balance around threatening wildlife.

http://www.yakangler.com/media/kunena/attachments/1682/Bird-vs-Kayaker-632x272.jpg

Loose your balance with a shotgun or rifle and things can go horribly wrong.
http://youviewedblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/biden-lies.png?w=640
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Shotgun-Fail.jpg

From a boat a rifle makes more sense

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/d/d2/Jaws-Harpoon-3.jpg/601px-Jaws-Harpoon-3.jpg
but from a Kayak?....
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/halolz-dot-com-deadrising2-chainsawkayakpaddle.jpg

I'm just saying there are places rifles and shotguns don't necessarily belong.http://files.sharenator.com/parenting_fail_shotgun-s533x357-114889-580.jpg

[Dannowar]

/thread

[ronbo613]

It's funny how someone asks if you can carry and more than half the people here just give reasons why you shouldn't or don't need to. The question is if you can, not why would you need to. In other free states it's not even a question, it's a right and in fact common place. This state used to be that way too but the anti's here are brainwashing people into believing that guns are evil and they don't need to carry, and alot of people believe they don't even have the right.
I didn't get any "anti" firearm vibe with this thread, maybe some questioning the logic of carrying and discharging a firearm in a plastic boat, seems like pretty typical gun talk.
Of course you can carry a concealed firearm (http://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html) on your kayak or anywhere else with the proper permit. Can you prove to the law enforcement agency with jurisdiction that you need one? Perhaps that's the question the OP should be asking.

Alright it's not like I'm advocating carrying guns for Great White protection because the idea is silly, but if you were kayaking and a Great White was chewing on your yak having a handgun would be better thing to have then a rifle.

....etc....etc....

I'm just saying there are places rifles and shotguns don't necessarily belong.

Got it

[Sdspeed]

How about a flare gun? Would that deter a shark or piss him off like shoting a grizzly with a 9mm? No-one can argue a flare gun on a vessel.

[wiredantz]

i think a gaff from hawaii is your best shot. The long pointy one like a spear.

[MrPatrick]

Kage

[bus kid]

Kage

PLEASE GAWD NOT THE THREAD AGAIN.....:eek:

[Old Man in the Sea]

kage is safest/cheapest, then bang stick with double safety,or if you fish with team sewer get a tandem kayak with Candy in the back seat with a mask and snorkel on...when you see a big GWS then tell Candy to put her head under water for 10 bucks...:notworthy:

[TJones]

What about a bang stick as last resort?

[skrilla]

You should be packin heat anyway for those asshole halibut that hit the deck. :the_finger:

[salty pirate]

How about a flare gun? Would that deter a shark or piss him off like shoting a grizzly with a 9mm? No-one can argue a flare gun on a vessel.

I keep one attached to the front hatch on the inside. Thought about that last time I had one following me but did want to risk falling overboard to get it + want to keep an eye out for where the shark was approaching me.

I think the boom from the flair gun would detour the shark.

Using a bang stick will likely damage the shark eventually killing it.

[Sdspeed]

I keep one attached to the front hatch on the inside. Thought about that last time I had one following me but did want to risk falling overboard to get it + want to keep an eye out for where the shark was approaching me.

I think the boom from the flair gun would detour the shark.

Using a bang stick will likely damage the shark eventually killing it.

I have one that's a touch bigger than a bic pen that the air force issues pilot's.
Shoots a magnsium flare about the size of a 44 mag round. Not a ton of force behind it but is noisy,bright and contiunes burning win it hits water.
I have it clipped to my pfd.

[bus kid]

For those of you afraid of sharks do not fish with Marines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522179/Video-captures-U-S-Marine-Jeff-Fangman-caught-Great-White-shark-BEACH.html

[jbaker]

All the shark attacks on kayakers up here in NorCal (about 1 a year for the past few years) the shark has hit the kayak with no one ever seeing it. paddler gets launched a few feet in the air and shark bails after leaving a few teeth in your bow. Only in one case did the shark turn around and take a second nibble on the kayak. In these attacks nothing you can do will prevent it or help you defend against it other than not being in the water. I would rather take steps toward keeping my kayak afloat. What good is a pistole going to do when its in your kayak underwater?

[DanaPT]

For those of you afraid of sharks do not fish with Marines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522179/Video-captures-U-S-Marine-Jeff-Fangman-caught-Great-White-shark-BEACH.html

that's very lowprofile like. It must be in the water.

[StinkyMatt]

With all due respect....
(Hell, who am I kidding? Don't care if you feel respected..:D)




Please don't start bringing guns on the kayak with you...couple reasons:

We do not need to give the anti fishing community another reason to get our sport banned or scrutinized any more.

The mental stability of many members on here makes me worry more about what they would do to another person, than what they would do to a GWS. No one should have to worry whether that psycho on the other kayak is going to pull his gun if I accidentally get a little to close to "HIS" fishing turf.


Leave the guns at home boys...you'll shoot your eye out!

[rossman]

Once again StinkyMatt has stumbled onto the truth. Everyone move along. There's nothing more to see here.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Dannowar]

Lollipop crypts vs. the sewer bloods

[alanw]

Lollipop crypts vs. the sewer bloods

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire from the paddle-by shootings. I'll have to wear my Bulletproof Life Vest (http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/xiaoqinghua2/product-detailkmExoOJbuQnK/China-Bulletproof-Life-Vest.html) just to travel through the LJ hood.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00kTEtBJaCIQaK/Bulletproof-Life-Vest.jpg

[ronbo613]

Just so you know, we have this same discussion regarding carrying a sidearm when riding mountain bikes out in the boonies. There are places where a bear or cougar encounter are a real possibility, but....
Most of these discussions occur when the weather turns bad, people spend too much time in the house and start scraping for things to talk about. They look a lot like this thread.

[Dannowar]

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire from the paddle-by shootings. I'll have to wear my Bulletproof Life Vest (http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/xiaoqinghua2/product-detailkmExoOJbuQnK/China-Bulletproof-Life-Vest.html) just to travel through the LJ hood.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00kTEtBJaCIQaK/Bulletproof-Life-Vest.jpg



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Qi6AoAzRxGc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[janines.fishtales@cox.net]

California Penal Code 25400 PC makes it a crime to carry a concealed firearm on your person or in a vehicle.<SUP>1</SUP> This charge is separate and distinct from:

Penal Code 25850 PC, California's law against carrying a loaded firearm,<SUP>2</SUP> and
Penal Code 26350 PC, openly carrying an unloaded firearm in public.<SUP>3</SUP> https://s3.amazonaws.com/law-media/uploads/131/6562/large/img-concealed-firearms-pants.jpg?1382924961
just stay in the bay like me;)
j

[Cbad Mike]

As someone who's armed more times than not I will tell you that I believe that it is against the law to carry a firearm on a kayak while fishing in California waters (LJ for example). Plus I know for a fact that it's illegal to fire a firearm within a certain distance from the shoreline. The distance that you would need to go to legally use a firearm on a boat is not one that would really be accessible by kayak.
I'm not telling anyone not to carry protection if they want but I will tell them to completely understand California's f***ed up gun laws if they do.
I personally live by the motto that it's better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6 but the fact is that if I felt fishing was so dangerous to warrant carrying a gun to do it I would simply not fish.

[Fiskadoro]

As someone who's armed more times than not I will tell you that I believe that it is against the law to carry a firearm on a kayak while fishing in California waters (LJ for example). Plus I know for a fact that it's illegal to fire a firearm within a certain distance from the shoreline.

You raise some good points.

So.... I did some checking.

This is from Carrie Wilson at the DFG/DFW

Carrie Wilson, Associate Marine Biologist
primary contact for the Region 7 (Marine) (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/)
Carrie.Wilson@wildlife.ca.gov • (831) 649-7191

"There is a California Penal Code law that allows anglers to carry a gun while fishing and while hiking to and from their angling site. California Penal Code, section 12025 prohibits carrying concealed firearms in California, however, section 12027 provides the following exemption to this prohibition: “Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.”

That sounds to me like you can carry the weapon unloaded to your launch site and then have it loaded with you while fishing. Which is exactly what I've heard in the past.

Firing it is another matter. You can shoot it all you want once your three miles offshore as long as you do not fire it in a manner that endangers other people. Within three miles you could only fire it in a emergency situation. This only makes sense. You can have a loaded gun in your house but you can't walk out in your yard and discharge it without a damn good reason.

[Siebler]

Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters).

Now in addition there is obviously the issue of whistleblowers thinking they are doing right yet are being ignorant of the laws. So while it is legal to shoot as little as 150 yards off of Mission Beach it doesn't mean you are not going to end up with a huge headache over it. Both San Diego Sheriff and DFW deem over 150 yards a legal, reasonable distance from any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding inside of Unincoporated San Diego. (Section 33.101.B of the San Diego County Code of Regulatory Ordinances).


http://www.sdsheriff.net/documents/shooting_map.pdf



Mike, What tells you that you cannot carry within a certain distance of shore? There is no Map that I have ever seen saying you cant carry within a certain distance of shoreline or anything like that that I am aware of. It is all about Concealed Weapons Laws and your right to carry. The shoreline isn't a post office or a school so there should be zero issue if everything else checks out if you possess a CCW or you are using the Hunting/Fishing clause.

Now obviously If I am wrong i would love to know (and this is definitely possible). I haven't looked much into CCW stuff since I decided the run around with SD County was no longer worth it and gave up on they way they issue them. I will instead wait until i can leave this anti-firearm state to hold a CCW and in the meantime continue to use clauses such as the Place of Business and Hunting/Fishing to aid in carrying on my person.

[Fiskadoro]

Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters).....

That makes perfect sense, Thanks for the clarification. :you_rock:

[alanw]

I think up to 3 miles out you are still in county (sheriff) jurisdiction, which is also state (F&G) jurisdiction. Out to 12 miles out is US (FBI) jurisdiction. From shore out to 200 miles is still US (Coast Guard) jurisdiction.

To be sure you'd have to ask the county sheriff, DFG, and the Coast Guard. Carrying and discharging are two different things. Most likely the CG would be the ones responding to a discharge call. It's likely you don't even need to use the fishing exception clause to carry/discharge outside of the 3 mile zone.

I'm not a lawyer and probably wouldn't even rely on my own opinions. The best thing to do is pay a gun lawyer for his opinion and have him on retainer.

[maui jim]

I was going to make some popcorn a couple of days ago....

[Cbad Mike]

First off I am not an attorney. Second, I am done trying to interpret gun laws in California because they are exactly that.... Open to interpretation. I promise anyone who conceals a weapon in San Diego County (including on the water) without a concealed weapons permit that they are opening themselves up for a very expensive headache and or imprisonment. Now once again... I am pro gun and believe that we all have a right to protect ourselves and I really don't care if you illegally carry or not. What I am saying is that if you decide to carry while on your kayak whether legal or not (this law is definitely open to interpretation) you better be prepared.
I regularly open carried up until a couple of years ago when it became illegal. During that time I was routinely stopped by LEOs. Sometimes, when the LEO knew the law he would do a quick load check and I'd be on my way within 2 minutes. There were other times when the LEO did not know the law and I was stopped and held at gunpoint. At this time the open carry law was 40 years old and either the LEO didn't know it (Police do not have to know the law 100% but the public does) or the LEO interpreted the law differently. The open carry law clearly stated that it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm yet I was arrested once for illegally carrying a firearm because I did not have a magazine in my weapon which was deemed an incomplete firearm and therefore wasn't protected under the open carry law. Pretty stupid I think and I challenge anyone to find where that is written but I got handcuffed, locked up for 9 hours, and it cost me $4000 to fight the charge before it was dropped.
Anyway.... If your going to carry on a kayak based on laws that are poorly written be prepared for the worst and remember that ignorance is not a valid defense. Me personally, I do not think the potential legal issues are worth it based on the miniscule chance that I will be attacked by a shark. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself. LOL)
NOW.... if for some reason I felt the need to arm myself while on my kayak I would take a rifle or shotgun with me because they are considered UN concealable and the law that specifies that is based on physical length and there fore not open to interpretation.

PS. buy a bang stick! :)

Mike

[Fiskadoro]

I think up to 3 miles out you are still in county (sheriff) jurisdiction, which is also state (F&G) jurisdiction. Out to 12 miles out is US (FBI) jurisdiction. From shore out to 200 miles is still US (Coast Guard) jurisdiction.

Yup....

Traditionally territorial seas were the first three miles from shore. That was the recognized distance of jurisdiction from any nation's shore. That border for the high the "high seas" was established in general Maritime law because back in the day 3 miles was as far as a long range shore battery (canons) could still fire on a ship. During prohibition this was increased to 12 miles in the US (canons be damned) and the 1988 Territorial Sea Proclamation established the "high seas" border at 12 miles in international law.

Locally in California this three mile zone, which is still marked on the charts as "territorial seas" is now considered both formal county and state jurisdiction.

I.E. the county sheriff 's control it and can arrest you but that control is limited to three miles offshore. That's why Siebler's comments are right on the money. In the first three miles your dealing with the Sheriff's but their official California Government Code jurisdiction ONLY goes three miles offshore.

Official California state jurisdiction overlaps the same zone and it is also limited to three miles offshore except in a a “closed bay” scenario in which case the state can have more extensive jurisdiction. For example:

"The Supreme Court found in “U.S. v. California” 381 US 139, 14 L.Ed.2d 296 (1965) that Monterey Bay was a “closed bay” and thus the State of California had jurisdiction well beyond the usual 3-mile limit out to 12 miles at the middle of that Bay."

That said your far more likely to have to deal with the Sheriffs then any kind of state officials in that first three miles because they are the guys that have the boats, they patrol it on the water daily and they answer the calls.

Once again listen to Siebler he has it right. Sheriffs are the ones your dealing with if you fire your gun within three miles of the shore unless your in somewhere where you have to deal with other State or law enforcement personnel like Long Beach harbor.

Beyond that three miles is the zone of official United States sovereignty and under law this is out to 12 nautical miles from the nearest point of land including islands, and sometimes a little more in the closed bay scenario I described above. Basically no-one is going to hassle you about weapons in federal waters unless you do something really stupid. For instance a while back some guys were firing machine guns out by the San Pedro oil rigs and they got their guns confiscated even though they owned them legally and they were five miles offshore.

Beyond 12 miles is the zone of internationally recognized jurisdiction over seabed and fisheries resources. Although any nation’s ship can transit those waters under the doctrine of “freedom of the seas,” the nation with the jurisdiction may regulate fishing, seabed mining, oil drilling, and that jurisdiction extends out 200 nautical miles from the nearest point of land, including islands.

So bottom line. You can carry a unloaded gun to the launch site, and carry a loaded gun with you while kayak fishing. If your within three miles of shore your under County and State jurisdiction and you may or may not be able to fire the weapon legally depending on local ordinances and law, and if someone complains your most likely going to dealing with the County Sheriffs.

If you go out over three miles you can not only carry it but fire the weapon as much as you want as long as your not doing something stupid that endangers others.

[Fiskadoro]

First off I am not an attorney. Second, I am done trying to interpret gun laws in California because they are exactly that.... Open to interpretation. I promise anyone who conceals a weapon in San Diego County (including on the water) without a concealed weapons permit that they are opening themselves up for a very expensive headache and or imprisonment. Now once again... I am pro gun and believe that we all have a right to protect ourselves and I really don't care if you illegally carry or not. What I am saying is that if you decide to carry while on your kayak whether legal or not (this law is definitely open to interpretation) you better be prepared.


I respect your informed opinion but I think there is a difference between carrying on your person on land and on a boat.

A boat is I think essentially legally your home on the water. I used to live aboard my 27 footer in King Harbor and had loaded guns on it, at times even when it was at the slip, and most of the live a boards down there owned guns. I've run large sport-fishers where we had guns on board 24-7 and I've had both the Sheriff and Coast Guard check boats on various occasions and though they clearly saw and even occasionally asked me about guns that were onboard they never made a big deal about it.

A kayak is I believe in law the same thing as a boat. Having a loaded pistol in your center hatch should be no different then having the same loaded pistol in a 30 foot sportfishers arms locker, or in a skiffs center console.

I know a lot of people with a lot of boats that have always had guns on board. I've never heard of a single person getting in trouble or even hassled for it. In fact go to BD and ask the same question there about guns and boats and those who do know will say it's a non issue unless you are going into Mexican waters.

I hate to suggest boat owners, or the people who patrol the ocean are different then the local police or the people they deal with onshore, but when a LEO sees a gun in a vehicle onshore they think trouble where when I Coast Guard is inspecting your vessel and the see a gun on the ocean they don't think it's a issue at all.

[bubblehide]

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.


With all the overlapping laws, and jurisdictions, some things can get pretty complicated, so much so that many cops aren't sure themselves. However, knowing the hierarchy of jurisdiction, and how superseding works, it's manageable, i.e., the feds set the minimum, local and state agencies can go above and beyond the feds regulations, but can not have less. A state agency's laws/regulations supersede local government...

[Fiskadoro]

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment..

Yeah you're far more likely to get in trouble walking a unloaded weapon from the car to your yak in Malibu then when you are actually carrying it loaded on your kayak while fishing there.

Weird but True :cheers1:

[alanw]

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.

It's probably true transporting is where you will get the most offenses, and what you said is probably good advise to be overly cautious.

But, ammo does not need to be in a separate container, and it doesn't even have to be locked up. Also, it's written in the penal code that a locked container does not include the glove box. http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/16850.html

I think ammo does need to be locked in a separate container for interstate transport, but for transport within CA it doesn't.

Please see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting


Anyway, looks like we should have a 3 mile out fishing party :D

[Siebler]

First off I am not an attorney. Second, I am done trying to interpret gun laws in California because they are exactly that.... Open to interpretation. I promise anyone who conceals a weapon in San Diego County (including on the water) without a concealed weapons permit that they are opening themselves up for a very expensive headache and or imprisonment. Now once again... I am pro gun and believe that we all have a right to protect ourselves and I really don't care if you illegally carry or not. What I am saying is that if you decide to carry while on your kayak whether legal or not (this law is definitely open to interpretation) you better be prepared.
I regularly open carried up until a couple of years ago when it became illegal. During that time I was routinely stopped by LEOs. Sometimes, when the LEO knew the law he would do a quick load check and I'd be on my way within 2 minutes. There were other times when the LEO did not know the law and I was stopped and held at gunpoint. At this time the open carry law was 40 years old and either the LEO didn't know it (Police do not have to know the law 100% but the public does) or the LEO interpreted the law differently. The open carry law clearly stated that it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm yet I was arrested once for illegally carrying a firearm because I did not have a magazine in my weapon which was deemed an incomplete firearm and therefore wasn't protected under the open carry law. Pretty stupid I think and I challenge anyone to find where that is written but I got handcuffed, locked up for 9 hours, and it cost me $4000 to fight the charge before it was dropped.
Anyway.... If your going to carry on a kayak based on laws that are poorly written be prepared for the worst and remember that ignorance is not a valid defense. Me personally, I do not think the potential legal issues are worth it based on the miniscule chance that I will be attacked by a shark. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself. LOL)
NOW.... if for some reason I felt the need to arm myself while on my kayak I would take a rifle or shotgun with me because they are considered UN concealable and the law that specifies that is based on physical length and there fore not open to interpretation.

PS. buy a bang stick! :)

Mike

Mike I am 100% in the same boat as you. I too open carried and was routinely checked usually without issues by the LEO (citizens calling the cops saying there was a wild gun yielding man is another story though). Most officers knew the routine and because the law was clear on it it was also easy to carry a copy of the penal code. Now days everything is a mess.

I carry when I fish certain locations and I carry when I hunt. For the most part this is the only time i carry but I would never carry while fishing an area that isnt dangerous enough to warrant the possible headache given by our states horrible gun laws as you pointed out.

I for one am more than ready to get out of this state and possess a CCW. The headache of getting it here finally had me give up after 2 years. San Diego just isnt the county to try to get a CCW in, at least not with our current sheriff. Maybe next election with make it easier, still all sorts of hoops to jump through but at least maybe our sheriff wont be anti-gun.

[lowprofile]

i love these kinds of topics.


if you feel the need to shoot a great white, your probably not going to be able to. :D

In california you are allowed to carry (as stated) WHILE fishing. but you cannot have it loaded while in the car or walking to and from the place. this gets kind of fuzzy when dock hoping in the bays. you have to "walk to and from" each destination and loading and unloading a fire arm before each spot change creates an "open carry" situation.

Out here in Florida they got it right. we can open carry to and from and while fishing. even while transporting our gear. and a CCP only requires an application form with a mailing address for military.

[bubblehide]

It's probably true transporting is where you will get the most offenses, and what you said is probably good advise to be overly cautious.

But, ammo does not need to be in a separate container, and it doesn't even have to be locked up. Also, it's written in the penal code that a locked container does not include the glove box. http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/16850.html

I think ammo does need to be locked in a separate container for interstate transport, but for transport within CA it doesn't.

Please see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting


Anyway, looks like we should have a 3 mile out fishing party :D


Your right about the glove box, I'm going off of memory here. The thing with Ca, is that our gun laws are in constant flux, constantly changing; usually due to the passing of bills that are not constitutional. As far as ammo needing to be locked up, I read it this past year, as being a new law; if I recall correctly. Give me some time to try and find it again, as I ma rather busy this time of year. I specifically recall reading about it, because I went out and bought a lockable ammo box specifically due to what I read. But you never know, it could had been a bill that passed one house but not the other. I'll do some digging, as I have time.

[ful-rac]

Are we still talking about this crap!

Maybe we should add a... guns and hunting section to the site...

or we should continue this conversation over at calguns....:p

[StinkyMatt]

Guns are bad........they hurt people.



:D

[wiredantz]

I do not know why people are fighting over guns on the water.


Just carry a spear gun, problem solved. :D


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/HjbItCOWozo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On a totally off the wall comment, in which i want to share:

Your right about the glove box, I'm going off of memory here. The thing with Ca, is that our gun laws are in constant flux, constantly changing; usually due to the passing of bills that are not constitutional. As far as ammo needing to be locked up, I read it this past year, as being a new law; if I recall correctly. Give me some time to try and find it again, as I ma rather busy this time of year. I specifically recall reading about it, because I went out and bought a lockable ammo box specifically due to what I read. But you never know, it could had been a bill that passed one house but not the other. I'll do some digging, as I have time.



I live in South Los Angeles (aka South Central). We have many gangs that have unregistered guns, our police force is not able to control the amount of unregistered guns. The worst part is if they end up killing someone, you will *probably* not get the death penalty. We just end up paying for them in jail with our tax dollars. (different story for a different day)

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/400731-george-zimmerman-free-from-jail-can-get-his-guns-back/
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/12/texas-teenager-kills-4-while-drunk.html


You are at liberty to do what ever you want to do, but it does not mean you will *not* get in trouble for it.

*Remember:*
In this world: killing an animal to some people is worse than killing a human being.
http://www.ohmidog.com/2009/09/28/man-gets-25-year-sentence-for-killing-dog/

Welcome to California.

just my 2cents

Our Jail System is very different from Salvador.
This is a picture on CNN, how they keep the MS13 gang in Salvador.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/darkmatrix84/ms13gang_zps12d455a7.png

[bubblehide]

[QUOTE=wiredantz;177258]...

I live in South Los Angeles (aka South Central). We have many gangs that have unregistered guns, our police force is not able to control the amount of unregistered guns. The worst part is if they end up killing someone, you will *probably* not get the death penalty. We just end up paying for them in jail with our tax dollars. (different story for a different day)
OUOTE].


Yeah Frank, believe it or not, but, I grew up in the hood.

[Fiskadoro]

I live in South Los Angeles (aka South Central).


Really? We must be neighbors. I'm a few blocks west of Crenshaw between Slauson and Florance. You should drop by the studio for a beer some time.

[chris138]

Cant believe i read this entire thread!!! nice job guys lol!!

Sharks are dangerous, but idiots with guns are much more so. If you are carrying in La Jolla, please shoot old knothead for me. That sombitch stole my seabass

[bubblehide]

Cant believe i read this entire thread!!! nice job guys lol!!

Sharks are dangerous, but idiots with guns are much more so. If you are carrying in La Jolla, please shoot old knothead for me. That sombitch stole my seabass



hey brotha, we don't hold grudges, even against knotheads.

[radastaff]

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.


With all the overlapping laws, and jurisdictions, some things can get pretty complicated, so much so that many cops aren't sure themselves. However, knowing the hierarchy of jurisdiction, and how superseding works, it's manageable, i.e., the feds set the minimum, local and state agencies can go above and beyond the feds regulations, but can not have less. A state agency's laws/regulations supersede local government...

eemm

ammo can be with gun
ammo can be in magazine
ammo cant be in magazine in gun
and or in chamber

gun must be in locked container
ammo does not need to be in locked container

this is while in transport in public

see calguns
and the various codes
for clarification

best I feel(though I think it sucks)
is to keep gun in locked container
and ammo and mags with ammo
in another separate locked container
like u mention
well you did mention generally speaking

some cops don't know the law
and its better not to have to fight it
just to get your gear back
and or avoid getting shot by accident

if they see that you have a gun
or you admit to it and or allow a search
they can by law inspect it to see that it is being properly stored
and is legal to own

glovebox storage is not a good idea
locking or not

also I think
transporting near schools and fed buildings
can be problematic

be careful out there

while fishing
I would rather carry a spear
and have thought about it a few times


P

[bus kid]

11097

[Siebler]

eemm

ammo can be with gun
ammo can be in magazine
ammo cant be in magazine in gun
and or in chamber

P


Has this been cleared up? At one point there was controversy in that LEO's considered the ammo in the mag as being loaded (at least with handguns). Also that Ammo being with a handgun was a no however with long guns it was ok. Also glovebox storage is a big NO. The locked container can NOT be connected to vehicle. So your locked toolbox doesnt count. The container may be attached via a locking cable but not bolted down or part of the vehicle.

Now days I just keep my pistol locked, ammo separate, mag unloaded (unless running dirt roads and such away from city limits).

A lot of this stuff falls on the LEO that you deal with and how his day is going and how you treat him. I have only had 1 instance where the LEO was a complete bitch. Luckily her partner was super cool and put her in her place and apologized to me as he checked my carry weapon and bid me a good evening. Just because you are elgal doenst mean you arnt going to have to fight in court with these crap gun laws.

[radastaff]

well according to what ive read recently at calguns
and the code sited
but I error on the side of caution regardless
DYODD