PA Steering upgrade? [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

ful-rac

09-17-2014, 02:28 PM

I've broken 2 rudder lines on my PA within a few months of each other. The problem seems to be chafing of the steering line on the grommets that are under the steering cover, and it eventually leads to steering line failure. It's also probably because I like to keep my steering tight with the steering tension knob...

So this is what I came up with, I'll let you know in a few months if it works.

Steering disconnected, grommet removed.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u217/pksbshp/B9346549-B423-4B70-AF5A-E140BC3A9BEA_zpsavnvx6uv.jpg (http://s169.photobucket.com/user/pksbshp/media/B9346549-B423-4B70-AF5A-E140BC3A9BEA_zpsavnvx6uv.jpg.html)

Here is the grommet removed, with a piece of mesh wire loom to be inserted inside of the grommet.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u217/pksbshp/A3BA27BD-5A32-4B03-9475-C80EB2633493_zpsh3mhxzz9.jpg (http://s169.photobucket.com/user/pksbshp/media/A3BA27BD-5A32-4B03-9475-C80EB2633493_zpsh3mhxzz9.jpg.html)

This is both grommets with the wire loom inserted and glued in place.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u217/pksbshp/C1DBE9C5-F47C-421C-8EFA-1765016D9210_zps6vvngypk.jpg (http://s169.photobucket.com/user/pksbshp/media/C1DBE9C5-F47C-421C-8EFA-1765016D9210_zps6vvngypk.jpg.html)

Grommets reinstalled and steering reconnected.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u217/pksbshp/301F6E60-D97D-4500-963C-BE84756816FE_zpsruwkgd52.jpg (http://s169.photobucket.com/user/pksbshp/media/301F6E60-D97D-4500-963C-BE84756816FE_zpsruwkgd52.jpg.html)

blitzburgh

09-17-2014, 04:45 PM

Cool idea

romspacenut

09-17-2014, 05:24 PM

Awesome idea Tony. I got a few feet of that size sleeve. Gonna give it a try too. Thanks!

Mike scales

09-17-2014, 07:01 PM

Great idea! I'm trying to fix mine for the second time also.
Finally found a blue print (wasn't easy) on where and how the cables route inside the hull, because the first time was a guessing game.

tsugg

09-17-2014, 07:44 PM

So I'm still a noob around here but I've found out that I really look forward to any reports from team sewer(which are frequent) for their insight, knowledge of fishing and above all else, the videos!!! I've realised that tony in a talented fisherman- great videographer - Handsome and now this steering fix. He's macgiver all in one package!!! All you guys from team sewer are A-Ok !

jorluivil

09-17-2014, 07:56 PM

So I'm still a noob around here but I've found out that I really look forward to any reports from team sewer(which are frequent) for their insight, knowledge of fishing and above all else, the videos!!! I've realised that tony in a talented fisherman- great videographer - Handsome and now this steering fix. He's macgiver all in one package!!! All you guys from team sewer are A-Ok !

You don't have to kiss his ass, just buy him lunch and he love you long time

tsugg

09-17-2014, 07:57 PM

Tony, where does the cable break? Right at the grommet?

alanw

09-17-2014, 10:29 PM

Just replace that crap line with some power pro or something and be done with it.

ful-rac

09-18-2014, 06:14 AM

Just replace that crap line with some power pro or something and be done with it.

Your a fucking genius sometimes you know that! :rolleyes:

The factory steering line is like 1000 pound test spectra, and is chafing against the grommet so much so that it is failing. Its not failing after one trip its after many. Fix the chafing fix the problem.

ful-rac

09-18-2014, 06:21 AM

Tony, where does the cable break? Right at the grommet?

Yes it breaks right at the grommet. If you havent yet, you should at least inspect the steering line where it rides thru the grommet for wear, and repair if needed. I think this problem mainly seems to be assosiated with PAs that have the steering tension knob. When you got that tension knob cranked down for that nice tight steering everybody likes....it really starts to wear on that grommet.

wiredantz

09-18-2014, 07:20 AM

Tony, have you thought about wire for the rudder lines.

My trident 15 comes with wire to connect to the rudder, don't know if it will help you.

Actually I think the wire on the PA would probably eat through the plastic...

alanw

09-18-2014, 07:37 AM

Your a fucking genius sometimes you know that! :rolleyes:

The factory steering line is like 1000 pound test spectra, and is chafing against the grommet so much so that it is failing. Its not failing after one trip its after many. Fix the chafing fix the problem.

Ha sorry looks like kite string in the photo. Maybe you can replace the crap grommet with a polished fairlead instead?

tsugg

09-18-2014, 08:12 AM

LOL.

YakDout

09-18-2014, 08:12 AM

They make wire coated with plastic..?

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wiredantz

09-18-2014, 08:24 AM

They make wire coated with plastic..?

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My rudder lines are all wire, almost looks like what they use for the bicycle brake lines.

YakDout

09-18-2014, 08:50 AM

I was saying that the wire coated with plastic would work perfect with no wear on the plastic of the boat

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Iceman

09-18-2014, 09:29 AM

looks like a good remedy Tony. :luxhello: Only real pinch point there is and the tighter you crank the tension the more it is prone to wear.

RedSledTeam

09-18-2014, 09:43 AM

How about Teflon coated wire? We use Teflon coated multi-strand electrical wire on all of our spaceships and airplanes, although I don't know if there is a specific "tension" wire with a Teflon coating. Does anyone know if such an animal exists?

bus kid

09-18-2014, 09:50 AM

Maybe you can replace the crap grommet with a polished fairlead instead?

winner. Someone post up dimensions of the grommets, our lathe guy has some down time right now so it may be possible for me to pop out a few.

ful-rac

09-18-2014, 10:08 AM

A perfectly smooth inside and out grommet would be a nice permanent fix. I would buy one. But in the meantime....

jorluivil

09-18-2014, 11:23 AM

A perfectly smooth inside and out grommet would be a nice permanent fix. I would buy one. But in the meantime....

x2....literally because I would need two

lowprofile

09-18-2014, 03:30 PM

Have you thought about replacing the lines with 200lb coated cable? A friend did this to an outback and it's worked fine. Not sure why he replaced it in the first place though.

Rambo

09-18-2014, 09:35 PM

Very ingenious rig to prolong the life of the rudder line, Tony!:you_rock:

As far as having a coating on the wire such as Teflon, plastic, enamel.. and so on, it only helps for awhile but since the rubbing occur at the plastic edge, it will eventually start to protrude through the surface and slowly eat away at the braided line.

My only suggestion is to cut a piece of brass, copper, or any soft metal that is less corrosive to saltwater and bend it to conform the shape so it can take the friction away from the plastic edge. 1/4 copper water metal piping with the fitting might be the best option and spray Teflon inside since the inside is smooth and polish.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r109/OneL1fe/rudderline_zps882f4c4c.jpg

RedSledTeam

09-25-2014, 11:54 AM

Yes it breaks right at the grommet. If you havent yet, you should at least inspect the steering line where it rides thru the grommet for wear, and repair if needed. I think this problem mainly seems to be assosiated with PAs that have the steering tension knob. When you got that tension knob cranked down for that nice tight steering everybody likes....it really starts to wear on that grommet.
Tony,
To understand your issue better, I acquired a PA14 and had my resident Junior engineer-in-training evaluate your problem with the steering cable failure...
13528
Here is Rockin’ Rolan with his eye on the problem… After thorough inspection of the steering cable system and geometry, we found the following suspect failure areas...
13529
 The probable cause of failure is the contact friction-abrasion on the spectra caused by the angle of the cable as it relates to the fer rule/hard grommet. Furthermore, when tension is increased, the side-effect (pun intended) is increased abrasion exacerbated by higher tension-ing of the spectra cable (think of a bow-saw).
13531
Your suggestion of an ultra-smooth ferrule would last longer, but still may cause friction in the long run. Further we have determined the root cause of the failure is the linear direction of the cable going from the pulley to the rudder post bell crank. The existing angle causes friction at the ferrule/grommet. This geometry acts like a cable saw on the feed-through ferrule. Problem is the ferrule material is harder than the spectra cable causing contact abrasion and wears down the spectra first . If you can change that angle with an extra pulley etc., we at Redsledteam think it will resolve the problem. :grouphug::party:

tsugg

09-25-2014, 12:15 PM

If I can't go fishing the next best thing EVER is the intertainment value of BWE. A reality show is so close !! I can see Tony with his first emmy or oscar!!!

jruiz

09-25-2014, 12:28 PM

How about Teflon coated wire? We use Teflon coated multi-strand electrical wire on all of our spaceships and airplanes, although I don't know if there is a specific "tension" wire with a Teflon coating. Does anyone know if such an animal exists?

They make ptfe coated SS cable for bikes. Here's two I've used.

http://www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Alligator/Alligator-Sleek-Glide-Cable-Kit.axd
http://www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Alligator/Alligator-Super-Fortress-Cable-Kit.axd