Paddle and Pedal Speed

[maquinapescado]

New to this site, my name is Brian. Hello.

So I am leaning hard towards purchasing a PA 14. I'm just curious as to what the speed differences really are, I mean for the long hauls. I know you can paddle way faster in lower profile kayaks but keeping it up for 4-8 miles is a whole different story. I am sure many of you have GPS units and know or have seen your speeds/paddle times over distance.

What are some average speeds in your PA 14's versus other model Hobies, Malibus and so on........ ? If you know and are so kind as to maybe let me know some details with your input I would appreciate it. I've been searching around for this kind of data but have been hard pressed to find any.

I'm a really experienced surfer, swimmer, fisherman and such so no need to throw the gamit of conditions, just general California conditions in mind will be suffice.

Thanks!

[HobieScot]

I just checked my last Navionics route and we averaged between 1.5-2mph on the way out slow trolling at a leisurely pace that was easy to keep without getting fatigued or tired. But on the way back in we averaged around 3mph since we had the wind at our backs. This was on a 9 mile route. 4.5 out and 4.5 back.

We were both on 12 foot Hobie Outbacks


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[Ohiostreetz]

Really the speed depend a lot on current also just cruising a few mile off shore I average 1.5 to 3 mph on my ff but I can kick it into gear for short burst I'm riding a Hobie Revo 13.

[maquinapescado]

Thank you gents. Keep the beta coming if you have the time :)

[taggermike]

I can't give you hard number data but I used both peddle and paddle boats. If you're a good paddler I'd put the speeds as about the same until fatigue sets in. Definately after 3-4 hours of steady paddling I feel it. While its not quite speed related I find I can keep a much straighter course in my mirage drive kayak. Going 5 miles from point A to point B on a strait course is a much faster trip than a snaking course at higher speed. Mike

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Remember that drag goes up exponentially with speed. Calm water is much faster than choppy water, headwinds, opposing currents and swells. Searching and sprinting for boils is fun. Keeping up a faster rate depends on your own build up of energy and endurance. Throttling back to a comfortable cruise is easier than trying to overcome drag at higher speeds. Following vectors to waypoints or destinations saves a lot of accumulated time over meandering around like a curly noodle. Weight makes a difference too. If you have water sloshing around in your hull, pump it out. Empty out the water in your bait tank when you are done with it. Each gallon of water weighs a little over 8 pounds. These are all contributing factors.

[alanw]

The energy needed to increase speed is exponential, like Mr. Nice Guy said. For my wide kayak, to go from an easy 2mph paddle up to 3mph might take a little bit of effort, but to go from 3mph up to 4mph might take so much extra effort that it's not practical for anything other than short bursts.

Look for a yak with a fast hull speed if you're concerned about speed and distance. A PA probably isn't it.

[ful-rac]

For whatever reason PAs are fast...especially with the new drive. It's not a problem keeping a 3-3.5 knot average speed at all. In fact I can go 4+ knots and maintain that speed for quite awhile. You can do short bursts of speed over 5 knots as well if you need to. It's really amazing...as big and as heavy a PA is, it can really move.

[maquinapescado]

Thanks a lot guys. I am definitely dead set on the PA, I was just wondering if there was a real dramatic difference. Speed isn't a soul contributing factor to the purchase. In fact, it is probably a few clicks down the list. If the PA was not capable of maintaining 2.5-3 mph I would still get it.

Do most of you strictly use the drive while in transit or do you compensate with a few paddles? Example; if you have a specific way point such as a squid nest that you re going to rather than trolling on your transit offshore.

[ful-rac]

Thanks a lot guys. I am definitely dead set on the PA, I was just wondering if there was a real dramatic difference. Speed isn't a soul contributing factor to the purchase. In fact, it is probably a few clicks down the list. If the PA was not capable of maintaining 2.5-3 mph I would still get it.

Do most of you strictly use the drive while in transit or do you compensate with a few paddles? Example; if you have a specific way point such as a squid nest that you re going to rather than trolling on your transit offshore.



PA is a great kayak/Boat, make sure to get the 14...cause if your gonna get the PA you might as well get the PA...Unless you have transport or storage issues.

[YakDout]

Thanks a lot guys. I am definitely dead set on the PA, I was just wondering if there was a real dramatic difference. Speed isn't a soul contributing factor to the purchase. In fact, it is probably a few clicks down the list. If the PA was not capable of maintaining 2.5-3 mph I would still get it.



Do most of you strictly use the drive while in transit or do you compensate with a few paddles? Example; if you have a specific way point such as a squid nest that you re going to rather than trolling on your transit offshore.


Paddling and PA dont work in the same sentence.

[Dannowar]

Don't be lazy. :paddleersmilie:

[Mr. NiceGuy]

If the PA was not capable of maintaining 2.5-3 mph I would still get it.

These are reasonable speeds and expectations, but so much of it depends on you.

For your first test ride you might feel spent and cramped peddling out to the kelp beds and back.

Endurance builds fast, especially the muscle groups you will be using for a Hobie. By the end of a season you will acclimate and basically be able to pedal and fish for as long as you like. Sprints have their limits, but you will quickly learn how to pace yourself and rest or recoup your energy while you are cruising easy. Other factors play a more important role in following any particular time schedule.

When it comes to planning time, speed and distance covered, remember the story about the tortoise and the hare. Building your personal endurance, logging time on the water under divergent conditions, understanding and predicting weather and water conditions, and other kinds of accumulated skill sets are more important than focusing on any particular average mph the boat itself might be capable of doing.

I do not have vast amounts of experience in a kayak, to say the least, but I've been a pilot for many years and many of the same forces of nature apply.

Generally speaking, I seem to be significantly faster in my Outback than most of the paddle kayaks around me. However, some kayaks are magnificently streamlined and low drag. For fishing, there are lots of other trade-offs. I've seen guys in PA's around me sprinting and casting into boils with plenty of finesse and maneuverability.

[RockyRaab]

I've clocked my PA-14 many times and find that a 3.5 mph cruise takes just about the same effort as walking that same speed. In fact the "foot speed" is about the same for both. If you watch very closely you'll note that your trailing foot moves at almost exactly water speed - in other words, your foot will stay right next to some bit of flotsam in the water as that foot comes backward in the stroke.

I don't peddle kayaks, but I do pedal them. And I know the difference.

[HobieScot]

Once you have a mirage drive you won't be paddling anywhere. Unless it breaks. Which does happen. Luckily it hasn't happened to me yet

The only time you will use your paddle Is to reverse out of kelp or back out of a mooring you were fishing in

There just isn't a reason to paddle unless it's to maneuver in a tight space or to back out of an area




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[cabojohn]

Hello Brian,
You seem pretty sure you want a Hobie...?
They are proven and have their place in the line up for sure.
They get from A to B. Most guys who have them like them.
Hobie's do NOT excel in the surf.

You said you are a waterman (surfer, swimmer, fisherman) do you plan to surf launch much?? Where do you plan to fish most often?
You also mentioned speed...:D

Do yourself a huge favor and test drive your Hobie of choice...and then test drive a couple KAYAKS.

*I can let you test paddle a Tarpon t160i and a Prowler P13 just for shits N giggles. I'll be on the water this weekend.
Shoot me a PM if your interested?

[maquinapescado]

Hello Brian,
You seem pretty sure you want a Hobie...?
They are proven and have their place in the line up for sure.
They get from A to B. Most guys who have them like them.
Hobie's do NOT excel in the surf.

You said you are a waterman (surfer, swimmer, fisherman) do you plan to surf launch much?? Where do you plan to fish most often?
You also mentioned speed...:D

Do yourself a huge favor and test drive your Hobie of choice...and then test drive a couple KAYAKS.

*I can let you test paddle a Tarpon t160i and a Prowler P13 just for shits N giggles. I'll be on the water this weekend.
Shoot me a PM if your interested?

I PM'ed you. Yeah, I have had some old school shitty Ocean Yaks that I managed surf launches in fairly adverse conditions to say the least. I feel like those would have handled surf much better than the PA by overall observation. As I mentioned in the PM, I don't care too much about style points in and out, just not capsizing if I can avoid it. My query about speed was more about a big or small difference in make/model.

[maquinapescado]

Paddling and PA dont work in the same sentence.

I kind of figured that, second to their width and seat height. Thanks

[ful-rac]

I've clocked my PA-14 many times and find that a 3.5 mph cruise takes just about the same effort as walking that same speed. In fact the "foot speed" is about the same for both. If you watch very closely you'll note that your trailing foot moves at almost exactly water speed - in other words, your foot will stay right next to some bit of flotsam in the water as that foot comes backward in the stroke.

I don't peddle kayaks, but I do pedal them. And I know the difference.



Why does peddle - pedal bother you so much anyway...? Who cares! So you know the difference....Good for you! :luxhello:

[ful-rac]

I kind of figured that, second to their width and seat height. Thanks


Contrary to what yakdout says....you can paddle a PA. I paddle it on almost every trip...I've paddled it for short distances long distances...it's not a paddlers kayak, and it's not represented as such. In the event of a mirage drive failure or an emergency...you can paddle it just fine...or is it PEDDLE?

[jorluivil]

Are these guys peddling, paddling or boarding?















http://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/views-article/0829_hurricane-katrina.jpg?itok=E5qO39_5

[RockyRaab]

ful-rac, good sir.

Yes, pedal versus peddle does bother me. Because one is right and the other is wrong.

Spelling matters; it's the difference between getting a rental and a rectal.

[chris138]

Unless you're talking about the hobie adventure, a SLEEK paddling kayak will smoke a hobie in nearly all cases (assuming experienced paddler). I can average 5 mph in my prowler 15 pretty much indefinitely in good wind conditions. Sprints get up to 6-7 mph. Downwind surfing can get up to 10, which isn't quite fast enough to catch open water swell.

But the max hull speed is not the critical factor, the bigger difference is the amount of effort that it takes to maintain a slow trolling speed is much less for a hobie. Its all about the hull shape and planing speed. Prowler can go slow very efficiently, and doesn't need to be on plane to have less resistance due to the bow/stern shape.

I also fish an x-factor which is a complete turd, but it can carry 600 freaking pounds. It has such high volume displacement and the bottom is almost flat, so it actually planes out at a pretty low speed. But to get it to 5 mph is very difficult.

They make kayaks in South Africa that can average 6-7 mph, and catch open ocean swells getting upwards of 15 mph max.

[jorluivil]

ful-rac, good sir.

Yes, pedal versus peddle does bother me. Because one is right and the other is wrong.

Spelling matters; it's the difference between getting a rental and a rectal.


bad spelling can be as bad as a weak analogy.


You don't walk into a rental company asking for a rectal. However, you can walk into OEX or send them an email asking for the price on those peddle things for Hobie kayaks and they'll know exactly what you're talking about.

[RockyRaab]

Well, of course. The good folks at OEX (whom I've never met) are too smart to laugh in your face and call you an illiterate doofus for using "peddle".

But maybe they do in the lunch room.

[jorluivil]

Well, of course. The good folks at OEX (whom I've never met) are too smart to laugh in your face and call you an illiterate doofus for using "peddle".

But maybe they do in the lunch room.


Where's that popcorn bag.........................:rolleyes:

[ful-rac]

Well, of course. The good folks at OEX (whom I've never met) are too smart to laugh in your face and call you an illiterate doofus for using "peddle".

But maybe they do in the lunch room.


For educating the masses one insult at a time! Thanks man! I will be sure to tell everybody that they are petaling there hobbys nott peddleing tham fore nowe on.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Beware of the peddlephiles

[ful-rac]

Beware of the peddlephiles

Hey! Watch it!!!

Its Petalphiles!!!:mad:

[RockyRaab]

Someone who uses improper English doesn't need me to insult them; it's self-inflicted.

My apologies to the original poster for derailing his thread. (Especially as he used the words correctly.)

[jruiz]

Correcting a child's spelling or grammar is helpful and considerate. Correcting a grown adult's is perceived differently. What would you do if someone walked over to you at a sushi restaurant and tried to correct your usage of chopsticks?

[HobieScot]

Correcting a child's spelling or grammar is helpful and considerate. Correcting a grown adult's is perceived differently. What would you do if someone walked over to you at a sushi restaurant and tried to correct your usage of chopsticks?


I would say what are you talking about? There are two chopsticks. One for each hand right? 😜


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[jorluivil]

I would say what are you talking about? There are two chopsticks. One for each hand right? ��


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bahahahahaha!!!!! good one!!!

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Manly fishermen talk like pirates, circa 2015, including lots of slang. Who cares how it's speled?

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Hey! Watch it!!!

Its Petalphiles!!!:mad:

Yeah!

I like flowers too!

[TJones]

any reasonable offer will be considered .

[TJones]

Unless you're talking about the hobie adventure, a SLEEK paddling kayak will smoke a hobie in nearly all cases (assuming experienced paddler). I can average 5 mph in my prowler 15 pretty much indefinitely in good wind conditions. Sprints get up to 6-7 mph. Downwind surfing can get up to 10, which isn't quite fast enough to catch open water swell.

But the max hull speed is not the critical factor, the bigger difference is the amount of effort that it takes to maintain a slow trolling speed is much less for a hobie. Its all about the hull shape and planing speed. Prowler can go slow very efficiently, and doesn't need to be on plane to have less resistance due to the bow/stern shape.

I also fish an x-factor which is a complete turd, but it can carry 600 freaking pounds. It has such high volume displacement and the bottom is almost flat, so it actually planes out at a pretty low speed. But to get it to 5 mph is very difficult.

They make kayaks in South Africa that can average 6-7 mph, and catch open ocean swells getting upwards of 15 mph max.

thats cold blooded . them dudes is fighting for their lives .:kayak-surfer:

[TJones]

any reasonable offer will be considered .

and accessories .

[maquinapescado]

Thanks you to those who constructively contributed and to those who destructively contributed (good for some laughs).

The gist of what I got is there isn't a huge difference in more streamline yaks in regards to speed. There are little nuances but nothing major.

Now I just have to decide if shelling out for a new one with all the latest changes is worth it compared to buying a 13' or 14'...........

[Cadillyak]

PA is a great kayak/Boat, make sure to get the 14...cause if your gonna get the PA you might as well get the PA...Unless you have transport or storage issues.

Well I have storage issues thus my PA12. If u can, def go 14! I love my 12 though. So much that I've never taken out my outback.

[Cadillyak]

These are reasonable speeds and expectations, but so much of it depends on you.

For your first test ride you might feel spent and cramped peddling out to the kelp beds and back.

Endurance builds fast, especially the muscle groups you will be using for a Hobie. By the end of a season you will acclimate and basically be able to pedal and fish for as long as you like. Sprints have their limits, but you will quickly learn how to pace yourself and rest or recoup your energy while you are cruising easy. Other factors play a more important role in following any particular time schedule.

When it comes to planning time, speed and distance covered, remember the story about the tortoise and the hare. Building your personal endurance, logging time on the water under divergent conditions, understanding and predicting weather and water conditions, and other kinds of accumulated skill sets are more important than focusing on any particular average mph the boat itself might be capable of doing.

I do not have vast amounts of experience in a kayak, to say the least, but I've been a pilot for many years and many of the same forces of nature apply.

Generally speaking, I seem to be significantly faster in my Outback than most of the paddle kayaks around me. However, some kayaks are magnificently streamlined and low drag. For fishing, there are lots of other trade-offs. I've seen guys in PA's around me sprinting and casting into boils with plenty of finesse and maneuverability.

^x2. Muscle memory is crazy. I used to get so fatigued and sore in the bay. The more u go, the better the endurance. I now feel like I can fish with my hearts content and not worry about fatigue!

[HobieScot]

It took me awhile to find my comfortable speed

Once I found that I noticed I no longer got fatigued and could go pretty much all day without getting tired

But before then I was trying to keep up with a buddy all the time and felt tired and had to stop and rest for awhile till the lactic acid in my muscles dissipated

But once I found my rhythm I was good to go all day.


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