Name that Return

[GregAndrew]

So, I have been playing around with logging my sonar, while out on the water. Then, in conjunction with my downrigger camera I have been comparing what I see on the FF with what my camera sees on the bottom. All of the images are from pictures of my FF, while playing back the logged sonar (read too cheap to pay for a program that will translate my sonar logs or screenshots to something usable on the PC). My new FF only is available in 83/200khz, so about all of my images will be on 83khz. Anyway, here are the first couple to take a crack at.

[GregAndrew]

sorry, here is the other image.

[rossman]

I'd say a small school of yellows over some micro bait. Where I'm from, those would be red crab but not sure you are seeing them up there. Definitely worth dropping a jig down. Not sure what the point is of the 2nd photo, other that seeing your downrigger cable and more micro bait. Thanks for the waypoint BTW. Although I already had one about 200 yards to the WSW of this one.

[jorluivil]

It's the chupacabra

[Zed]

He thinks hes got the corner on crabs...
We got crab man.

[Denis_Ruso]

I like this game. I'd say the first one looks like bait on the bottom and a schooling predatory fish on top. Deff a school of something rolling through. Yellowtail sometime mark like but can also be some fat jumbo mackerel. Not wormy enough for WSb and not skinny enough for barracuda. So I say yellowtail.

The bottom screenshot is probably a mixture of bait and whitefish based on depth.

[jorluivil]

is it stage 4 on Missile Command?

[GregAndrew]

Some good interpretations so far. But let me give you a sonar lesson hint. The streak up in the second pic is the downrigger ball being retrieved. There is no cable to see, as I use 100# braid instead of the original cable. Notice what happens to it as it gets closer to the transducer. Also notice how small a 4# lead ball with a GoPro attached looks 120' down. Anyway, here is another image to add to the discussion.

[Biggameaddict]

GWS

[YakDout]

I was going to guess a yo-yo iron being retrieved back up after dropping on what looks like red crab.

[kirkdavis]

Bait is the straight line across the bottom with a halibut coming up to play with it.... Maybe?

[Bruntoj]

Straight line a couple of feet above the bottom is your jig. Something bumped or struck it (that last upside down v) and then you started winding it up after feeling the bump.

Or GWS [emoji39]


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[YakDout]

This didn’t suck .


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190110/602c577f7b50143a6b9004dd726980c8.jpg

[YakDout]

Summer of last year ^

[GregAndrew]

Ok, got some good possibilities mentioned (and then there was Jorge :rolleyes:). The first log was an assortment of quite a few species over an active structure spot. There were White Fish, Blacksmith Perch, several species of Rock Fish, Sheepsheads and others. No Red Crabs, microbaits or any "baitfish" at all for that matter. I did not get a visual on the predators nearer the surface on camera though.

The second log was a sea of White Fish almost exclusively, but until I pulled the camera up, I was only getting a glimpse of the bottom 15' or so.

The third log shows about 3 minutes of recording time. The first 20 seconds is a decent sized Halibut eyeballing my bait. Then, at least 1 nice YT joins in on the ogling. They both continue to look but not bite for the next minute before the Halibut decides the grapes are sour anyway. At least 1 YT comes in and out of the screen for the next couple of minutes before they too decide the grapes are sour.


Here is a new one. I will give you a hint, cause this one is pretty hard. Notice the color, size and depth.

[FISH11]

Hali.

[walrus]

BSB

[YakDout]

Kind of weird those are whitefish. You think you’d see a little better target separation than that.

[Flounder]

Shark on that last one?

[Biggameaddict]

Big ol’ batray

[rossman]

Kind of weird those are whitefish. You think you’d see a little better target separation than that.

Exactly right Brandon! You better upgrade your unit or transducer Greg.

[YakDout]

Exactly right Brandon! You better upgrade your unit or transducer Greg.



Even at that depth I get better separation looking at Mackerel than what’s shown as whitefish in the picture.

[GregAndrew]

Big ol’ batray

Shark on that last one?

Hali.

None of these 3 types of fish are going to show you anything but a softer color return on your FF at more than about 60' (Lack of air bladders).


Kind of weird those are whitefish. You think you’d see a little better target separation than that.


That depends on a few factors, that are interrelated. But it comes down to the number of fish and their vertical distribution in the area of view. In these cases, I am on 83khz (my wide cone angle frequency). That gives me a better angle to capture something, but it also jams all of that info into each vertical line the FF draws. As long as the fish are fairly thick and well distributed vertically, they can blot out the screen.


Straight line a couple of feet above the bottom is your jig. Something bumped or struck it (that last upside down v) and then you started winding it up after feeling the bump.

Or GWS [emoji39]


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Bait is the straight line across the bottom with a halibut coming up to play with it.... Maybe?


Straight line across the bottom is my downrigger ball and camera setup.


BSB

This is a good guess. But even most BSB are not going to give you the color of a harder return (the red in the pic) at that distance. One of the very large models might, or if you have your colorline cranked up, that might do it also.


This last mark was a Dolphin passing by the camera.


Ok, here is an easy one.

[Iceman]

I believe the last ones are called "What are boner fish for $500 Alex?"

[YakDout]

None of these 3 types of fish are going to show you anything but a softer color return on your FF at more than about 60' (Lack of air bladders).











That depends on a few factors, that are interrelated. But it comes down to the number of fish and their vertical distribution in the area of view. In these cases, I am on 83khz (my wide cone angle frequency). That gives me a better angle to capture something, but it also jams all of that info into each vertical line the FF draws. As long as the fish are fairly thick and well distributed vertically, they can blot out the screen.















Straight line across the bottom is my downrigger ball and camera setup.









This is a good guess. But even most BSB are not going to give you the color of a harder return (the red in the pic) at that distance. One of the very large models might, or if you have your colorline cranked up, that might do it also.





This last mark was a Dolphin passing by the camera.





Ok, here is an easy one.



Yellowtail tunas

[katchfish]

https://i.postimg.cc/43mffc1J/i-got-worms-5a52fa.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

:D:D:D

[FISH11]

Those kind of worms, I love to see on my FF screen. It's been a while, but it just reminds me to keep doing out.

[GregAndrew]

Yellowtail tunas

We have a winner!

Here is one last one that is pretty kewl to figure out everything that is going on in. And how things change at a distance.

[YakDout]

School of bass with one following a lure up to the yak?

[Denis_Ruso]

School of bass with one following a lure up to the yak?

I think I would agree with you on this one. This is typically what I see when the current is strong and the kelp is laying down low. The bass are hiding from the current behind the low kelp stalks and pop out to ambush the lure.

I got one for you boys. Very grainy. Still a good one.

[TJones]

One thing is for sure, I’ll never know what they really were. Safe bet would be yellows.:doh: please don’t jack my spots

[GregAndrew]

The last pic is "worms". That is a 35lb worm rising to the surface at the end of the fight.

[GregAndrew]

I am going to go with YT on Denis Ruso pic. (because of the quick 10' descent in the middle of the pic and the depth changes on the last high arch).

I am going with school of Bonito or smaller grade YT on the bottom pic from TJones (at that depth I would expect to see more solid and hard returns from anything larger). Although they could be nicer fish that just never made it into the main cone angle? Not sure about the top pics though, not much information there.

[YellowYaket]

I really enjoyed this thread. It helps a newbie like me improve my ability to read the FF. Thanks!

[YakDout]

The last pic is "worms". That is a 35lb worm rising to the surface at the end of the fight.



A hooked 35 LB worm?

You really had the drag buttoned down. Hahaha

[Denis_Ruso]

I am going to go with YT on Denis Ruso pic. (because of the quick 10' descent in the middle of the pic and the depth changes on the last high arch).

I am going with school of Bonito or smaller grade YT on the bottom pic from TJones (at that depth I would expect to see more solid and hard returns from anything larger). Although they could be nicer fish that just never made it into the main cone angle? Not sure about the top pics though, not much information there.

:wsb::wsb::wsb:
I see what you mean by descent but keep in mind that a FF signal is a cone. Therefore it may look like they're descending but they're just getting further from the signal or turning. Also the thickness of the marks is signature of WSB because of their air bladder I believe.

Also note the depth is 50' and kelp.

I guess a hint would have helped that it's in Malibu.

[TCS]

Definitely an interesting thread. I'm not sure I'm getting the most out of may fancy Lowrance sonar unit though. Anybody care to share settings that work well for LJ?

[YakDout]

Definitely an interesting thread. I'm not sure I'm getting the most out of may fancy Lowrance sonar unit though. Anybody care to share settings that work well for LJ?



Which unit do you have? Which transducer? I’d try running your gain/sensitivity around high 70’s to 80’s. Colorline about the same maybe a little less. Turn off surface clarity and noise rejection. Play around with it a little. Drop a heavy jig while you’re drifting and see how long you can watch it on your screen. If you don’t see it for very long, start turning up the gain. You might get a little clutter or feedback from other transducers in the area, but that’s ok. You will also see more fish.

The goal is to have the gain up just high enough to still be able to see what’s going on but not so high that you can’t see through it. Run over the kelp beds and note how that looks. Softer bottom and softer returns will look reddish/purple, solid or harder returns will look more yellowish. Once you have it dialed it, you should only need to make very minor adjustments from there. Good luck and report back.

[GregAndrew]

A hooked 35 LB worm?

You really had the drag buttoned down. Hahaha


The entire screen there is less than 3 minutes of duration. So the WSB rising is about the last 1.5 minutes of around a 7 minute fight ("at the end of the fight").

:wsb::wsb::wsb:
I see what you mean by descent but keep in mind that a FF signal is a cone. Therefore it may look like they're descending but they're just getting further from the signal or turning. Also the thickness of the marks is signature of WSB because of their air bladder I believe.


Even on the widest of cone angles, you would not see that type of range change from your transducer at those depths without vertical movement. Turning will make no change for your FF, only distance from the transducer. Thickness of the mark is based on how much (vertically) of the object returns a signal. The two signatures of WSB are the color (strength of signal) and elongated marks with not much vertical movement (worm like).
Although color can be the most difficult to interpret based on distance, thickness can be quite interesting too (just look at my last pic again, that is the same fish at the bottom as at the top).



Also note the depth is 50' and kelp.



At that depth scale, and with the fish between 15 and 35' away, it would be hard to guess the species, but easy to tell that they were large. Especially not knowing how you have your sensitivity and colorline set.


I guess a hint would have helped that it's in Malibu.


IDK, there has been some very good YT fishing there at times? ;)

[YakDout]

The entire screen there is less than 3 minutes of duration. So the WSB rising is about the last 1.5 minutes of around a 7 minute fight ("at the end of the fight").













Interesting so do you have your scroll speed turned down to less than normal speed? I feel like if my unit is set to normal that mark would be long gone off the screen during that duration.

[GregAndrew]

I want to change my mind on TJones 2nd pic now. Being sideways, I did not notice the jagged bottom, just the jagged fish arches. Apparently there was some decent swell, which not only makes the fish look more erratic, it can cause the marks to appear less defined (as the cone angle rocks the fish in and out of view). I would bet on something larger than most of the local Bonito.

[surfisher]

Here's a couple for you guys. Lowrance elite 7 chirp. All surface, noise clarity etc... turned off. Sensitivity 63% colorline 78% ... I found it marks pretty good and i can decipher what type of fish is under the boat but I'm thinking of switching to medium chirp or 200hz vs. 83hz so I have a better understanding of what is directly under me. Thoughts?
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[YakDout]

Here's a couple for you guys. Lowrance elite 7 chirp. All surface, noise clarity etc... turned off. Sensitivity 63% colorline 78% ... I found it marks pretty good and i can decipher what type of fish is under the boat but I'm thinking of switching to medium chirp or 200hz vs. 83hz so I have a better understanding of what is directly under me. Thoughts?

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Judging by the pictures in your graph I wouldn’t change many settings. Those are some great images

[GregAndrew]

Here's a couple for you guys. Lowrance elite 7 chirp. All surface, noise clarity etc... turned off. Sensitivity 63% colorline 78% ... I found it marks pretty good and i can decipher what type of fish is under the boat but I'm thinking of switching to medium chirp or 200hz vs. 83hz so I have a better understanding of what is directly under me. Thoughts?
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I have not found chirp settings that I like yet, but I am new to them. I like both high and low sonar frequencies, but for different reasons. The low frequencies (and their associated larger cone angles) are better for finding areas of fish and structure. You are scanning about 4 times the area, with double the cone angle. Knowing what is right underneath you is overrated, unless you are a Lobster fisherman or fish pretty deep structure.

The high frequency is better at indicating what you are looking at (based on the colors), assuming that both your sensitivity and colorline are not too high nor too low. If all of the targets (including bait schools) return the hardest color of your chosen pallet, then you are probably too high in one or both (in either frequency type). But, in my experience, the high frequency can be better fine tuned to return color differences between species. As with all other marks, the size of (and distance to) the target are going to play a part in what you see on the screen for any particular settings.

[Salty Irons]

Wow I dont know what settings your has that keep the image so clean because my regular 83 khz is so clustered everytime I find heavy structure, bait or fish.. This post is great and super helpful on honing in the fishfinder! Thanx for any help on this!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190124/327d926fa559061e68c42ac6622fe381.jpg

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[YakDout]

Turn your sensitivity down and I would turn off the 800hz down scan. Looks like your traditional sonar image is in high chirp not 83hz

[GregAndrew]

Looks like the high chirp is getting some interference. Might try cycling off any other electronics on board, and checking your transducer cable and pins. The crack in the screen could be troublesome too? If your transducer is not directly in the water, you might want to check for bubbles (although the downscan does not appear bad). Make sure you have the right transducer selected in the setting also. Is the "4X" on your unit scroll speed? If so, I would turn that down to normal.

[YakDout]

Looks like the high chirp is getting some interference. Might try cycling off any other electronics on board, and checking your transducer cable and pins. The crack in the screen could be troublesome too? If your transducer is not directly in the water, you might want to check for bubbles (although the downscan does not appear bad). Make sure you have the right transducer selected in the setting also. Is the "4X" on your unit scroll speed? If so, I would turn that down to normal.



The 4x appears to be the amount of zoom. Agree with the rest.

[GregAndrew]

The 4x appears to be the amount of zoom. Agree with the rest.

Yep, didn't even notice the scale on that part of the screen.

[Salty Irons]

Looks like the high chirp is getting some interference. Might try cycling off any other electronics on board, and checking your transducer cable and pins. The crack in the screen could be troublesome too? If your transducer is not directly in the water, you might want to check for bubbles (although the downscan does not appear bad). Make sure you have the right transducer selected in the setting also. Is the "4X" on your unit scroll speed? If so, I would turn that down to normal.Ya switched high chirp to 200 and zoomed out so much better already more clear.The 4x appears to be the amount of zoom. Agree with the rest.Dont know how to turn down sensitivity but 200 seems to correctly portray what's below thanks to both of you for all the suggestions!

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