WCW press

[Iceman]

Thanks Paul! Great wrap-up to a great year's tourney.

http://thelog.com/news/newsview.asp?c=176700

[Will B.]

I greatly admire your ability at La Jolla and you're role in WCW. I admit that I am not much of a kayak yellowtail fisherman at all.

But I am concerned that you were so happy about PAL's article. I know that it must feel personally gratifying to have the attention and the approval of a media article.

However, dont such articles draw lots of attention to La Jolla kayak fishing. Is that what we want? More and more people coming out there? And I know many powerboaters look at this site and follow kayak fishing these days as a guideline for where they should fish(I sometimes wonder if people who have not signed up for WCW should be allowed access to this site).

If you thought that a lot of attention was important so that the public would know that the Northwest corner was for kayakers and should not be classed as a No Fish Preserve that seems a reasonable motivation for media attention.

Sometimes I think kayak fishermen get too caught up in trying to get their personal talents and abilities noticed and approved of. Maybe they forget a little about the Art of Fishing or the future of fishing or the fish stocks or the fishing environment.

My personal feeling is that we have to be careful about media attention. It reaches to big an audience. Maybe some people think there is enough to go around for ever. But I dont think there are many places like Northwest corner of La Jolla.

I know PAL wants to be a gerat fishing reporter and do his job well. I recall he wrote one article for the LOG telling people specifically where and how to catch spotted bay bass in Mission Bay. Months later one of the individuals who helped him write the article said that " We will never see a 100 fish day again in Mission Bay," and that individual blamed it on too many tournaments. But I wonder if the article in the LOG contibuted to this noticible decline.

Please dont take this as criticism. You are the Master I am the neophyte. I am just concerned about this matter and wondering what other people thoughts are about it.

[PAL]

It was my pleasure and honor to write about the WCW. I have to say a bit sheepishly that I'm in awe of the marvelous catches of the past year. If I can't do it myself, at least I can write about it.

In response to Will: The WCW was newsworthy. I would have covered it in any event Will. After all, the competition was held by a PUBLIC website. Another thing. La Jolla is no secret. I'm a member of the kayak fishing community - I live and breath the sport - I'm sensitive to the need not to reveal too much. You say you aren't much of YT fisherman Will. Why not? You have all the info you need to succeed, right? Maybe it isn't as easy as it looks.

And Will, you touched upon a great point. In a year or two we'll be in the fight of our lives to hang onto our fishing access at La Jolla. You can be damn sure that press documenting LJ as the centerpiece of California kayak fishing will help us in that battle. I've already been standing up for the sport these past two years. The efforts of the KFASC helped direct MPAs away from most of the kayak fishing launch sites in CenCal (Pigeon Pt to Pt Conception), and may even lead to some kayak fishing grounds being labeled marine parklands where only recreational fishing is allowed.

Thanks for bringing up the Mission Bay story again. It's a solid piece that I stand behind. Your claim that my story has impacted that fishery is without merit. How many boats do you see fishing spotties on a typical gorgeous winter Saturday Will? I see the Lawman's boat and maybe one or two others, that's all.

Will, you decry tournaments, yet participate in as many as you can. You complain that fishing pressure is causing further decline of the fisheries, yet you still fish. Are you a hypocrite? Perhaps you wouldn't feel so conflicted if you gave up fishing?

[Iceman]

Will,
I think that media attention will likely make a few think "I gotta get out there" and they go and they don't find what they are looking for, so they wait for someone to find the fish again and they go and they don't find what they are looking for. I just fish to fish, usually twice a week, the catching is a big bonus. Even with SD's booming population growth, the only increase that I have seen through the years is kayak fishermen, fishing La Jolla and that does not bother me. Maybe if I was a weekend fisherman I would feel differently. I think that the management of the fishery has brought about an increase in the quality of fish.
Yesterday Jim S and I were the only ones within shouting distance of each other. It was about 70 degrees, sunny and glassy, a perfect day to be fishing. I have always enjoyed telling a good fish story and personally have not felt any backlash from doing so. The bass fisherman's perspective is much different as you are catching resident fish.

Paul did a great job of capturing what an incredible year we had.

[madscientist]

I second Andy's sentiments. My guess is that less than 5% of the people who see an article like that, buy a kayak, give it a try, find it a lot of work, and don't catch a YT right away decide to stick with it. I fished about 200 days last year, and on many of those I was out there alone or with a handful of other regulars. Sammon's site does far more to advertise La Jolla than some article (his comes up among the top if you google kayak fishing), and has been there for years. Heck, that's how I learned about it. And the word is spreading among the PB community whether we post or not. The day after that hot YT bite in Dec, when we all agreed to keep it quiet and no one posted, I went to both Noah's tackle and Squidco and both the customers and the people working there were fully aware of the action. As PAL said, NW corner is no hidden secret. If every yak board shut down there would still be 50-100 boats piled up there every nice Sat morning in the summer.

Sometimes I think kayak fishermen get too caught up in trying to get their personal talents and abilities noticed and approved of. Maybe they forget a little about the Art of Fishing or the future of fishing or the fish stocks or the fishing environment.

I think that is insulting to everyone that has ever posted a catch, let alone those of us that post reports on the bad days as well. One of the best aspects of yak fishing around here is the community, and that community is largely built around these forums. I admit to having an ulterior motive for posting on BD, mainly that having friends with boats is not a bad thing, particularly for safety. I feel much better knowing that if I jump on the VHF in trouble, there's a decent chance someone I know from the boards will be listening and will help out.

Finally, I think it is perfectly reasonable for Andy to promote this tournament in any way he wants, and as a serious participant I think that any addition attention is only a good thing. This is SoCal, right, and shameless self-promotion is the name of the game. :lol: . I think Andy has always done a very humble job of advertising both this site, the affiliated tournaments, and his own considerable abilities. I know he would have been equally happy with the article had his name not appeared at all, as would I, and Arne has more than earned whatever small accollade this article provides.

As PAL alludes, I've notice that Will is a bit of a bomb thrower on other sites, so I don't think we should take this too seriously. But I think it is pretty tasteless to personally attack Andy for being proud of the attention and results of the tournament he and Corey assembled. Bravo gentlemen, and thanks to PAL for an excellent write-up.

[steamroll]

PAL,
Another great article. Thanks for covering the sport so well.

MadSci,
Well put. Will enjoys controversy (my opinion) and he commonly posts in this way on every other fishing forum. He makes a few valid points but still comes across as insulting.

[Grego]

Will B. if this is Will Bowen, Don't bring that crap around this board, this is about fishing, not your personal views...go do that somewhere else.

Grego

[cabojohn]

Paul,
Keep up the great work! Thank you.

I think all the right responses have been made....

Will, Why?
:evil:

[madscientist]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And I thought I was the foul mouthed one around here. :oops:

[Kenny]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: You da man :!: Kenny

[kurt]

I want to know who is keeping spotted bay bass? I think if you grilled one, it would explode, with SD Bay being so polluted. My suggestion for next years WCW is to see who can watch the most fishing programs on TV.

[Tman]

Pal that was a great write up, and a good read.
Disregard any comments from the naysayers :roll:

To the BWE boys, the credit was well deserved and though I couldn't get out on the agua as much as some of you, it was still enjoyable to read the posts, see the pics, enjoy the competition and comraderie, and be frustrated just the same.

May this be the year the 60# mark is broken, just not by Andy, Arne, Brad, or Gabe.... :lol:
Sorry fellas, you understand...

[lawman]

Wills post is not insulting. Its an exchange of ideas. It is amazing how many fishermen are advocates of censorship and try to intimidate others from the free market place of ideas. :cry: Paul, I enjoyed your articles. Feel free to continue to engage in free speech.

[BWE Moderator]

Hey, Let's try to keep it reasonably clean guys. A few posts were edited for obscenities. Feel free to debate the topic, but please don't insult people with profanity.

Thanks,

mgmt.

[Tman]

Not insulting?

Pal and the BWE crew put alot of time, effort, and time (=$) into what they do for enjoyment because they obviously want to give back to the sport they love. An incredible amount of info is given out, free of charge.

I am not affiliated with BWE, did not partake in the event, but still got to enjoy all that was accomplished. And it was all 'free speech'.

But to blame an article, or an event, on the demise of certain species, and to accuse an event of giving out too much info on where the migratory fish are, I would consider that going beyond opinion and free speech.

But I wonder if the article in the LOG contibuted to this noticible decline.


But I am concerned that you were so happy about PAL's article. I know that it must feel personally gratifying to have the attention and the approval of a media article.

I used to fish LJ when there was no such thing as kayak fishing, and when LJ was a parking lot, full of boats. It has always been there, just some years are better than others, and I have not seen more WSB catches in the past years, all because of the WSB hatchery program.

Free speech is one thing, but to suggest an article, or event, would ultimately cause the demise of catches of certain species, pacify egos, or draw too much attention to an area, esp. by slow moving craft is hilarious.

News flash: A PBer caught a YT off LJ...you don't think that gets plastered all over the PB boards, fish counts, Log, or WON?

Free speech, personal opinion is one thing. Again I reiterate. To suggest that an article, or an event, is unwarranted and should not be brought to light because of the media attention, that it will lessen the fish counts, or give out locations of migratory fish, would you not consider that to be censorship :?:

[Corey]

I posted on this topic earlier, but after rereading the thread I felt that I had misinterpreted things a bit. Here are my thoughts. Kayak fishing is not a big secret anymore, and neither is La Jolla. LJ never has been. It just happens to be the best inshore fishing in socal and we fortunately have extemely easy access to it as kayakers. Boaters don't fish there because we kayakers discovered anything new. Yes, some may see the reports on this board and plan their fishing accordingly, but I guess that's the price of sharing information on the boards. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE IT. But anyone who follows saltater fishing has known about LJ long before kayak fishing hit the mags. Boaters have been fishing there for a long time (way longer than kayakers have), and people who read the mags already know about La Jolla and already know about kayak fishing. You can't flip through fishrap, WON or PCS without seeing a kayak fishing article or at least a pic or two. I don't think an article about WCW in a fishing mag is going to have an effect on how many yaks you see a LJ.

I appreciate Paul writing the article and I enjoyed seeing it in fishrap, but I don't see it as self promotion and I dont think anyone else does either. BWE has never been about that. It's about providing a forum to share information and chat with your bros as well as setting up tournaments and trips to increase the enjoyment of the sport.

get bent,

corey

[fishinhb]

Right on Corey, well said.

The information provided here has only improved the kayak fishing communities position as a force to be contended with respect to any future regulations that maybe mandated. I for one welcome the growth of the community and the brotherhood/sisterhood it affords.

I have met many great people in this sport and hope to meet many more in the future.

Change in any way leads to growing pains, this is just one that will pass along with the many fisherpeople that enter and depart this sport.

I commend the people who take the time to post their catches for the entertainment and information it provides. It not only makes this community stronger due to the many leaders we have but also smaller so we still feel as a tight knit group of anglers. I for one would love to be an advocate of the sport but I chose to focus on other areas of my life and continue to live vicariously though the other kayakfisherpeople out there.

I have been kayak fishing for over 4 years and the growth has been huge. The fish being caught has brought the level of kayak fishing into extreme sport notariety (?). I'm glad to say I'm part of it and the know many of the guys who innovated the sport.

Keep it up everyone. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

Hoop there it is!

Ron Pascual
fishinhb (old school style)

[PAL]

If you thought that a lot of attention was important so that the public would know that the Northwest corner was for kayakers and should not be classed as a No Fish Preserve that seems a reasonable motivation for media attention.

In his post, Will implied that the northwest corner was mentioned in my story. That is inaccurate. The locations mentioned were:

Dana Pt, no specific spot

La Jolla, as part of a reference to Andy being the first two-time winner of the La Jolla Kayak Fishing Moyer Memorial

Torrey Pines, no particular spot

La Jolla, in reference to the hot December bite. Again, no specific spot was mentioned.

If you want to bring in the La Jolla YT story that also ran this issue, the story recommends looking for winter tails between the north kelp edge and the canyon in 100 to 200 feet of water, an area that encompasses at a minimum dozens of square miles.


To reiterate, all fishing areas referenced in my articles are just that, general AREAS. No reader can take the information presented in my stories and put it to use without spending considerable time and effort on the water. They have to earn their fish just like the rest of us.

Thank-you for your supportive posts.

[Iceman]

I was not offended by Will's post at all. I thought that there was an obvious jab at Paul and the over all feeling of wanting to stir up peoples emotions, knowing very well what kind of responses would be made. For what? Entertainment? There is a very good brotherhood type vibe on this board, so like brothers there are going to be guys that want punch ya in the nose for saying your lil bro plays with dolls :D Now post a fish report or we'll ban ya both :D (The smiley face implies kidding)

Andy

[F'nArne]

Well written article PAL and thanks for all the time and effort you put in to the KFASC. Your value in that capacity will likely go unnoticed by most of us until our favorite fishing hole gets taken away.

And once again, thanks Greg, Andy, and Corey. The WCW was a great motivating factor to my time on the water - it just tired me out. But Brad, 200 days???? Got 'roids?

As for this other stuff, I don't know Will's intentions concerning his post except that he said not to take this as "criticism." OK. But some folks were offended/insulted by the post and told him so. That's one of the hazards of posting on a message board - you say things you can't take back, your words can be misinterpreted, people don't "hear" you so they don't get the joke/sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek or seriousness in your words.

Whether his post was insulting or "free speech" though - the two are not mutually exclusive. Your free speech can be insulting. Hopefully, we all try not to do that.

Let's fish,
F'nArne

[PAL]

In the interest of clarity, I was the one who told Lawman about this post. Why, you are asking? If Lawman wasn't the person who according to Will supposedly said "We will never see a 100 fish day again in Mission Bay," then Bill certainly knows the source of the quote (if accurate). Further, Lawman has commented to me on numerous occaisons that Will's continued assertions that my one-time story on Mission Bay has increased fishing pressure are false.

[Ed]

As a person trapped behind a desk all week, I would like to thank everyone who posts reports on the yaks boards. I live vicariously through these posts. I do not chase the reports around trying to increase my success.

As far as Will B's assertion that posts and articles somehow threaten future fish stocks and wipe out fisheries, this is not accurate. Each fish harvested is not a net loss to the population. These are compensatory populations. There is a harvestable surplus in our fish populations. Harvestable surplus is the number of individuals that can be harvested from a population without affecting long term stability or average population size.

As mortality (harvest plus natural mortality) increases, natality (birth rate) and recruitment also increase. Growth rates also increase as mortality increases. Limits are based on the amount of havestable surplus in a population. If data shows a long term decline in a population, the harvestable surplus has been exceeded and limits are adjusted accordingly. This is why I have been able to harvest fish in San Diego for over 40 years.

If you really are catching 100 spotted bass a day, then some harvest would likely increase the size of those spotties. Thank those meat hunters because they are helping you catch bigger bass. Yeah, I already pissed off a bunch of people this week, so what's a couple more.

Good Fishing, Kayote (AKA Seal Boy)

[lawman]

I fish Mission bay every weekend. Over the last 7 trips I have seen at most one other boat fishing MB. That other boat was practicing C & R. The bay is wide open and has very little fishing pressure. Tournaments may have added some different fishing pressure not realized in past years. Since you fish every kayak tournament I am sure you don't feel they have a negative impact. The bays have cycles. Some years it is 100 fish days and other years it is difficult to scratch 10. Yellowtail are a pelegic species and private boaters in La Joola are not going to be of any concern on Yellowtail populations. Unlike Calico Bass, Yellowtail grow very fast. A Bass is a fish that should be released. A kayak angler taking home 2 fish that God created as a food fish seems appropriate.