Next MLPA meeting--April 28 (Tues) in Oxnard [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Holy Mackerel

04-20-2009, 06:40 AM

This is an important meeting as RSG reps now take guidance from the Blue Ribbon Task Force and Science Advisory Team data and feedback (supposedly with new 0-30 m fine-scale data) and battle it out to narrow the current 10 maps down to 5.

You can give talking points, or cede your time to another kayak fisherman, or person to speak.

April 28, 2009
Residence Inn by Marriott
2101 West Vineyard Ave.
Oxnard, CA 93036

Anyone from SD crazy enough to drive up there? :you_rock:
From Terry Maas, Spearo rep.

Speakers,
The state is requesting that only comment directed toward Regional Stake Holder Members is appropriate. I think what is meant by this is that information directed toward the stakeholders can include:
1. Specific locations advice ie, your views on PV, LaJolla, Malibu etc.
2. Issues of water quality
3. Size and spacing of reserves
4. Local knowledge of habitat missed by the SAT at specific locations
5. Your views on the size of some of the proposals, ie External C
6. Your views on favoring a specific array proposal, ie-the FIN/FIC--External A
7. Comments on how specific proposals will affect you
8. Perhaps suggest a go-slow approach with an eye to re-evaluation in 5 years as is required by the plan.

Public comment is limited to Tuesday only at 3pm. Joe Nguyen will help organize the speakers

Anyone staying after the meeting is invited to discuss the meeting and the process at dinner at a local restaurant, location TBA.

Terry

Holy Mackerel

04-20-2009, 08:05 AM

It is time to rally, there will not be many more chances.

I am taking a vacation day. I hope you ALL will too.

A 3 hour drive will suck, but losing fishing grounds, and not participating in the process, and not having your voice heard, will suck more.

Let's take on those spearos mano a mano in greater attendance. ;):D

Let's get some carpooling, whatever, you need to do to get up there. I might have some room in lil CRV, waiting to here back from others. If anyone is going from SD, and has room in your car, POST UP!

Our Reps need our support, we need to show up in force.

chris :you_rock:

Holy Mackerel

04-20-2009, 09:58 AM

Bump! :)

I forgot to add....

The time scheduling is TBD, but likely around 1pm for public comment, I will post more time specifics, as I hear them.

chris

PAL

04-20-2009, 10:57 AM

Come on up - your stakeholder reps need your support.

kurt

04-21-2009, 07:05 PM

If I can get the day off, I'm in.

Holy Mackerel

04-21-2009, 08:26 PM

Kurt, let me know we can carpool... :cool:

To be honest, I can't believe more Kayak Fishermen are not rallying, and making time to attend this meeting... This is not like a MLB season with 162 games... Think of it as game 3 World Series, not many chances left to attend a game.

Please support Paul, and MJ.

Many Speardivers are supporting Terry Maas, and Eric Kett.

Many Bders are posting thousands of threads on nonesense, and a few are attending... :D

Thanks,

Chris

Corey

04-22-2009, 10:08 AM

I wish I could come along, but I cannot take the 28th off work - it's my busiest day of the month, actually. Hopefully some others can step up & get up there to represent. I will do my best to make the next one.

Dennis

04-22-2009, 12:08 PM

Workin' on trying to get a sitter. I'd love to make it. Thanks for giving us the heads up, Chris.

Holy Mackerel

04-22-2009, 01:21 PM

Dennis, I might have room in my "whip (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whip)." :D Let me know if you get a sitter.

chris

tylerdurden

04-22-2009, 06:56 PM

Bump.

What part of the maps and closures do we fisherman not get?

Only 2 kayak fisherman showed up to the Searocket bistro MLPA mixer after work hours with free food.

Only 1 kayak fisherman went to the Dana point meeting that I know of and he is from San Diego. Kurt :you_rock: . I thought that with such a strong kayak community in Dana Point and Orange County that kayak fisherman would have a good showing and us San Diego guys wouldn't have to make the trek.

How many guys will miss work and drive all the way to LJ when a squid bite goes off, yet can't be bothered to show up for a few hours at an MLPA event that may ban us from fishing our local grounds forever. Letters and emails I am sure have some impact, but nothing like showing up will. If we want to have a positive impact we should make ourselves seen and heard.

If they are really going to narrow the 10 maps down to 5 at this meeting our fate could be sealed if they pick the wrong 5 :eek:.

Holy Mackerel

04-23-2009, 07:03 AM

Great points Tyler, you ought to post this up on www.kayaksportfishing.com (http://www.kayaksportfishing.com) and http://baytuber.informe.com/index.php they are the main boards up north of SD.

If you are attending, be sure to state you are kayak fisherman, ie a consumptive recreational angler. There are some who think kayakers are just the people in la jolla who check out the sea caves, and sea gaze. With my kayak fishing record this year, I guess I fit into that category! :o:doh:

PS: you can cede your time, if you do not feel comfortable talking, sh*t I'll use it!

ROLL CALL!!!!

chris

tylerdurden

04-23-2009, 07:31 AM

Chris, go ahead and post it for me, or link it to here. They never let me register at www.kayaksportfishing.com (http://www.kayaksportfishing.com/) . I am not a member of Baytubers either. I don't want to lurk an anymore sites without adding anything :biggrinjester: .

kurt

04-23-2009, 09:45 AM

Only 1 kayak fisherman went to the Dana point meeting that I know of and he is from San Diego. Kurt

One other kayak fisherman spoke. I'm not sure who it was. If you can make these meetings, please come. If you're a better public speaker than me, that's just about anyone, please come. 200 kayakers off of Mission Bay trying to catch a halibut does not sound like a pleasant future. I know Oxnard is a far drive, but I'd rather drive far to go to a meeting and stay local to fish.

tylerdurden

04-23-2009, 10:44 AM

Bump. come on guys. 15+ people comment on some dumbass getting pasted in the surf, 20+ people will argue about the latest fish report, and almost no one will comment on the MLPA, lend their support or go to a meeting or MLPA mixer?

If the MLPA closes LJ, Point Loma, and Cardiff, there will be almost no more kayak big fish reports from San Diego. Although we may get some new surf videos of our new launch sites to argue about.

I can't believe the guides and businesses with the most to lose have not even commented on the process or lent their face and name to fight against it.

Matt

04-23-2009, 11:09 AM

Holy Mackerel

04-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Awesome Matt! I think Jim Sammons is looking for a ride, check out his surf class thread.

It would be great to have local LJ guides, and kayak fishing vendors attend this meeting, and testify on the negtive economic impact their businesses will have, due to the Marine Life Protection Act Initiative.

tylerdurden

04-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Sweet Matt, one more.

I didn't go to the dana meeting and regret it now after hearing about the lack of fisherman. I hear the spearos had great numbers there. I hope we can at least match that. There are more guys that kayak fish than spearfish. On top of that kayak fisherman and spear fisherman have the most in common.

Tman

04-23-2009, 12:45 PM

I will double check with the Boss man tomorrow and if he gives me the day off I am doing the drive! C'mon everybody it is extremely important that we get to this meeting and show people that LJ is so important to us. I know a ton of you guys have sick days saved up so take one and let's roll on up, I will post tomorrow if I can go for sure and if so I have room for 3 more people and you don't have to contribute any gas money I will cover it!! Out of excuses yet????????????

Matt I will take you up on the offer...I have Clay that week, so can you tell me what time you plan to depart/return so I can get somebody to take him to school and pick up if necessary?

Or we can take him along....let him speak up...I'm literally 2 min off LC Ave W, easy pick up. Count me in...:you_rock:

Corey

04-23-2009, 12:56 PM

You should take Clay & have him speak too. Nobody can resist the pleas of a cute kid.

Matt

04-23-2009, 01:38 PM

Might not be a bad learning experience for Clay to see "our" Government at work either! T Man is in fo' sho' who else needs to bum a ride?? I should have an answer posted by tonight but I am 90% sure I am gonna roll! Come on guys this is the crunch time, put your time in and let's effect some positive change!!

Dennis

04-23-2009, 03:12 PM

Like Tman, what are the (approximate) times of departure and return?
Thanks,
D

Holy Mackerel

04-23-2009, 04:59 PM

Dennis, we are leaving at 4:30am, and playing it by ear when to come back due to traffic. We'd like to get back as early as possible, but have kept open the option of dinner until traffic is reasonable.

Matt's Taxi may have different options. Post up Matt, thanks for offering your shuttle service. :cool:

chris

Matt

04-23-2009, 06:05 PM

Waiting for the word back, but my plan is to follow Chris......not to complex of a plan...but should work just fine although I will be picking up Tman once I get the boss's OK!

So got 1 or 2 seats left depending if Clay is rolling with us!

Tman

04-23-2009, 07:13 PM

I am seriously thinking of pulling him out for a day, explain to this teacher why, and taking him would be a good experience for him.

Let them hear it from the younger perspective...still pondering the idea...

Plus, when he gets up to speak, somebody can whack him on the arm and get the tears going...nice effect...just kidding, whoever took that serious has serious issues...besides, he'd definitely tag back..:sifone:

Thanks Matt....

Holy Mackerel

04-23-2009, 07:51 PM

Right on Martin, and Clay the fish catcher!!! :you_rock:

tylerdurden

04-23-2009, 08:09 PM

THE DARKHORSE

04-23-2009, 09:40 PM

The last I heard Matt's boss will decide the carpool situation and the fate of our fishery.

I've cancelled clients for Tuesday and trust me you don't want to ride in my designated fishing vehicle :puke:.

Tman

04-24-2009, 12:14 AM

Bring Clay and blow up a pic of him with a nice yt. Maybe this one:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r203/evilclone619/IMG_2618.jpg

Had to dig in my picture archive for a while to find this one.

Political types can't get enough of kissing babies and smart looking kids.

Ha, I remember that one, that was Ice's YT...if I recall correctly...Ice, ya there?

I like this one mo' better...

http://momentoffame.com/photopost/data/590/medium/Clay_1st_YT_016.jpg

Not bad for a 6 yr old...dang it, where's that WSB pic?

Thanks Tyler....you know you're a good dude...

Holy Mackerel

04-24-2009, 07:02 AM

Well, there you have it.

Chris
Tyler
Kurt
Martin
Clay
Matt
Josh
Dennis (pending)

Not a bad start, hopefully some of our nothern brothers will be attending.

We still need more La Jolla fishermen, I am giving the OK for anyone to call in sick on Tuesday... Direct your boss to me. :boxing_smiley:

Matt

04-24-2009, 07:39 AM

Alright fellas....I am in 100% got Tman and Clay(?) rolling with me so definitely have room for one more or a lil person or gnome!?! So what's up I know some of you guys have sick days and such, and some of you are laid off from work, so really there is no excuse c'mon let's do this so we can see Clay grow up and catch lots more fish and share the love we all have for this beautiful over abundant slab of ocean we call LJ!!! Bakersfield? Ventura? Malibu? HB? San Clemente? Where you fellas at? Put your time in where your mouth is!!! STEP UP!!! There has got to be more people who want to go and need to go!!!!

All you guides get your ass up there! C'mon fellas this is FREEKIN' GO TIME!!!! GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND MOBILIZE MAKE NO MISTAKE THIS IS A FIGHT/WAR TO PRESERVE YOUR RIGHTS AS A FISHERMAN!!!

There has got to be more than 8 dudes willing to roll?! POST UP IF YOUR GOING! I see a large portion of the dudes are Old School guys how about all you new guys that have slayed some spawning seabass as of late??? Do you ever want to do that again in LJ?? PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTHS ARE!!! Or how about you guys who finally got your first YT?????? Why aren't you doing the drive??? Come on fellas WE NEED TO GO TO THIS MEETING AND EVERY OTHER ONE THAT WE CAN AND KEEP WRITING LETTERS TOO! SERIOUSLY LET'S GO!

lamb

04-24-2009, 08:56 AM

Right on guys, that's great.

The more people show up, the better.

With my situation, I can't commit to anything these days...

Thanks Chris for all your hard work and efforts. :cheers1:

habanero

04-24-2009, 09:41 AM

I'm sorry guys, I just tuned in and I have no reason to miss this. I have a small freelance job but I am my boss and he said it's ok.:2in1:
Who has a bus?

tylerdurden

04-24-2009, 09:57 AM

Martin, pm me your email if you want that pic. Or I can get it printed out. I think it would be great if Clay had a copy of each of those pics with him to show off and talk about how he wants to be able to keep fishing LJ.

Holy Mackerel

04-24-2009, 10:14 AM

I'm sorry guys, I just tuned in and I have no reason to miss this. I have a small freelance job but I am my boss and he said it's ok.:2in1:
Who has a bus?

Cool Haberno, my car is full, but you ought to post up to offer ride sharing for others, to get this ball rolling for more kayakers!!

chris

Tman

04-24-2009, 10:34 AM

Good idea Tyler, I'll talk to him about it tonight, see if we can get his arse to speak. Extra Credit for school?

I have a couple others, surf fishing, fish taco dinner, etc...I'll scrounge them up.

Maybe hearing a grom's perspective will open them up.

PM sent...

SeaDog

04-24-2009, 10:51 AM

Is anybody heading up from the OC?

tylerdurden

04-24-2009, 10:57 AM

Alright, I'll email the pic when I get home. Even if Clay doesn't make it bringing in those photos would have an impact I think.

Holy Mackerel

04-24-2009, 12:30 PM

Is anybody heading up from the OC?

Post up on Baytubers.com and kayaksportfishing.com I certainly hope OC will rep, if SD will....

chris

Matt

04-24-2009, 01:51 PM

My car is full my crew is: Gino, Tman, Me and Clay:cheers1:

Tman

04-24-2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks Matt...game on...Clay is gung-ho...anything to miss school...

But...part of the stips for him going is that he has to stand up and speak. We can touch on what he needs them to hear on the drive up.

I'll make some sammiches for the trek.

And I'll bring a pillow for the drive...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Billy V

04-24-2009, 05:12 PM

----------------------------

A Large Blown Up Pic of Clay with that Yellowtail, to accompany him while He said his Piece would be effective.

----------------------------

PAL

04-24-2009, 07:42 PM

The meeting room is set up to accommodate PowerPoint - so if you want to bring a visual aid, do it. Just make sure to let the organizers know in advance.

Thank you for standing up for your irreplacable fishery. Please keep in mind you'll be talking to the regional stakeholders group, a 60-some person committee responsible for proposing MPAs aka reserves. What they don't do is make the rules (although you can encourage them to be creative and flexible in their interpretation). You'll have to come to the next BRTF meeting for the big picture stuff. I hope you don't plan on one and done!

If you tell them where you'd NOT like one, also offer them an alternative. May I suggest Del Mar for La Jolla? This is a diverse, quality marine environment far from ports. Good value! You might also remind them that the kayak fishing user group would be virtually wiped out by the preservationist proposals, which target every one of our major use areas. If enacted, someone, probably a newby, will get hurt trying to use an unsuitable launch.

If there are a lot of speakers, and there have been at recent meetings, expect only one minute per speaker. Other people can donate their speaking time - recently, each card was good for an additional 30 seconds up to a max of 3 minutes. Those who gave up their time might want to step to the podium with the speaker.

Hope that helps! And I'm very happy you are making the trip. My hat's off to you.

Paul

landwhale

04-25-2009, 05:37 AM

I am going to this RSG meeting from Seal Beach plan on leaving at 5 am have room for 3 more..............................

Matt

04-25-2009, 06:58 AM

C'mon fellas the heavier presence we show the more likely we will be able to keep our fishing grounds!!!!

Holy Mackerel

04-25-2009, 07:09 AM

Right on Steve, thanks for offering up room in your car, see you up there. :cool:

chris

Holy Mackerel

04-26-2009, 03:27 PM

Bump!:you_rock:

SeaDog

04-26-2009, 10:18 PM

What time does it start? Is there a check in time in order to speak? Sorry if I missed that info somewhere, just trying to make sure I'm there at the right time.

FISHIONADO

04-26-2009, 11:45 PM

Thanks to those planning to represent! I'm out of town this week or I would be there. See you at the one. Dave

bosco

04-27-2009, 06:34 AM

Steve, Sent you a PM. Would like to car pool with you to the meeting. bosco

PAL

04-27-2009, 06:46 AM

What time does it start? Is there a check in time in order to speak? Sorry if I missed that info somewhere, just trying to make sure I'm there at the right time.


The meeting starts at 9, with a lunch break scheduled for 11:45. Public comment is set for 3 pm. As long as you're there by 2:45, you should have time to fill out and submit a speaker card. Look for them at the table that's usually next to the door.

landwhale

04-27-2009, 07:07 AM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009
9:30 a.m.
Residence Inn Marriott at River Ridge*
2101 West Vineyard Avenue
Oxnard, California 93036

Meeting Agenda – Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Note: The regional stakeholder group will break for lunch at approximately 11:45 a.m. and public comment will be taken at approximately 3:00 p.m.
Welcome, Agenda Review and Brief Introductions
I. Updates

Science Questions, SAT Documents, Regional Profile, and Announcements
II. Round 1 Draft MPA Arrays and Draft External MPA Proposals

Overview of Proposal 0, Draft MPA Arrays Developed by SCRSG Work Groups, and Draft External MPA Proposals
III. SAT Evaluations of Proposal 0, Draft MPA Arrays and Draft External MPA Proposals

Habitat Representation and Replication Evaluation
MPA Size and Spacing Evaluation
Bioeconomic Modeling Evaluation
Marine Birds and Mammals Evaluation
Commercial and Recreational Fishing Evaluation
IV. Other Evaluations of Proposal 0, Draft MPA Arrays and Draft External MPA Proposals

California Department of Fish and Game Feasibility Evaluation
California Department of Parks and Recreation Analysis
MLPA Goal 3 Analysis
V. Guidance for Developing Draft MPA Proposals in Round 2

Water Quality Guidance
BRTF Guidance Regarding Developing and Evaluating Draft MPA Proposals
VI. Discuss Work Groups' Direction for Round 2
VII. Next Steps and Preparations for April 29 and May 20 Work Sessions

Review objectives for upcoming work sessions
Review objectives for next SCRSG meeting (#6)
Adjourn
Note: On Wednesday, April 29, the SCRSG members will meet in work sessions; members of the public are invited to attend as observers. There is no public comment at work sessions.

landwhale

04-27-2009, 07:26 AM

THE MOST IMPORTANT MEETING IS COMING SOMETIME IN OCTOBER IT IS THE BLUE RIBBON TASK FORCE MEETING

This is were the map will be set in stone

SO IF YOU DO NOT MAKE THIS ONE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO SHOW UP FOR THE BRT MEETING

tylerdurden

04-27-2009, 06:38 PM

One last bump.

See everyone tomorrow.

so cal shaggy

04-28-2009, 06:32 PM

Hey guys, thanks for showing up today that was our best turnout by kayak fishermen to date :you_rock: keep up the momentum keep hounding other guys until they get tired of hearing from you. I spoke to a couple of you guys Chris and Kurt and mentioned some of the petitions the spearfishermen have been circulating we have broken them up into 3 areas PV, Laguna/Dana and San diego. Here are all 3 petitions get them out to anyone you feel would be able to help the cause. I have been dropping off a stack every week to my local tackle shops and meeting with good results.

Thanks alot guys for your show of support and for making that long treck up from the San Diego area

Holy Mackerel

04-28-2009, 07:23 PM

Jeff, good talking with you up there. :cool:

Everyone, get your co-workers, family, etc to sign a petition, even if you only get 10-20 signitures. You can send them to me. PM me for my address, and I will be glad to get them to the appropriate place.

chris

tylerdurden

04-28-2009, 07:41 PM

We had 11 guys there, I believe. :you_rock: Good seeing everyone that turn out. A huge thanks to Paul and MJ for going to these meeting for us trying to keep our spots open. I don't know if I could stand sitting through that much bs.

Lots of competing interests at the table
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r203/evilclone619/IMG_4123.jpg

Last minute editing of our public comments.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r203/evilclone619/IMG_4124.jpg

We were able to pool our pubic comment time together and put together a more coherent argument that way I think.

We can and must do better. The meeting was a real eye opener. Too much to comment on.

Next meeting is already posted. We already know when the next meeting is. Schedule time off now. If you would take a vacation or sick day to fish, do it for this. Even if you don't make the whole meeting be sure to be there for some of it to support our reps and contribute during the the public comment portion.

Don't make me go to LJ and Dana point the morning of the next meeting and shanghai guys and drag them to the meeting.

Of the 11 kayak fisherman, 9 were from SD :doh: . Guys that live in Dana Point or Malibu, where were you? SD guys, we can do better. All our spots are on the chopping block.

Holy Mackerel

04-28-2009, 07:55 PM

Big Thanks to Paul, and MJ! :you_rock:

Major props to:

Tyler
Kurt
Matt
Martin
Clay the fish catcher
Geno
Josh Pruitt
Josh (other Josh)
JJ
Don

The Spearos had 25-30, this is not a competition, but let's get those kayak fishing numbers up next time. More LA people need to attend when it is your area, that means Oceanside :p to Pt. Conception. Time to STEP UP!!!!

Tman

04-28-2009, 08:46 PM

Matt thanks for the drive, Geno, great meetin ya.

Good turnout, hopefully our point came across, this became a turning point for me personally, watching the double speak.

I agree, we need more presence. Big time.

To those who made the trek, :you_rock:

Paul and MJ, hard to imagine sitting through that and not being able to say how you truly feel, with the games the MLPAI throw at us.

At the onset, hearing the committee explain why they changed the schedule, and why the amendments to their proposals were added at the last minute without giving advance notice to us (kayakers, fishers, spearos, etc.) was an eye opener to the battle being faced by our supporters.

One of the MLPAI even stated the, "we can't possibly wait to gather all the necessary data..", that being the explanation of their amending of the MPA proposal. Hard to even fathom...hmmm....

Matt

04-28-2009, 08:58 PM

I OFFICIALLY HATE THE MLPA!

If you don't think your gonna lose LJ you are living in a dream now step up and fight for it!!! The beauracracy is unimaginable!! This thing is gonna get railroaded down on all of us. It is definitely time to stand up and be counted!!!

The double speak, the refusal to answer or even take questions of the pro-fishing side, it is truly something to behold! We stand a chance but you and YES I MEAN YOU...YES THE ONE READING THIS NEEDS TO STAND UP AND MAKE THE EFFORT OR FORGET LJ....I hope you all like fishing for spotties!! Because if these people have their way and that may even be threatened due to the endangerment of eel grass....no shit I am not kidding eel grass!! It is time to make a statement if you want to fish and share the experience someday with your children and grandchildren YOU MUST ACT NOW!!!!!!

Huge props to all the dudes who showed up to represent! Tyler and Chris et. al. thanks for the speech to read and the help re-writing it. CLAY :you_rock:!! Martin you have a great kid and it is very easy to see why he is the way he is! Kurt, Josh P, Josh, The guy in the suit who's name I have forgotten, Habanero, Chris, Tyler, T-Man, Fishcatcher, Gino you all made me proud to stand up and fight for what is ours!

BIG, BIG THANKS TO MJ AND PAL!!

STAND UP AND FIGHT OR LOSE IT ALL! If more of you don't show up we are done for!

steveooo

04-28-2009, 09:06 PM

Today was just a day I could not swing. I will be at the next meeting for sure. Big thanks to the guys that made the drive up.:you_rock:

dsafety

04-28-2009, 09:37 PM

After reading the posts above, I can sense the frustration but am not getting a clear picture of what we are up against. I understand the incredible uselessness of the bureaucracy but what are they doing specifically as they try to force this thing down our throats?

I have not yet attended one of these meetings. I will do whatever it takes to make the next one. (It sounds like I better come unarmed in order to avoid an unseemly incident). What I would like to know is how and why the opposition seems to be gaining ground against all logic.

Please educate me.

Bob

Tman

04-28-2009, 09:50 PM

The 'eel grass' issue Matt is referring to, even the MLPAI (one of the member of their so called I Team) even called it, no chit, 'seal grass'....

hmmm...Freudian slip, maybe?

It was so easy to read between the lines of what they were saying.

And in the end of the "seal grass" discussion, one of the 'I Team' even admitted that they need more input from people that have closer access to viewing the eel grass, so in essence, what they are saying is that they are making assumptions since they don't have the time nor the inclination to actually pursue the facts they throw out there...this coming after a diver enlightened them on the fact that there is not a problem with the abundance of 'seal grass'...

I jotted many notes (yes I'm a freak), and some of the comments from the Task Force was unreal.

Such as the comment of kelp habitat studies, and a comment being made how "plans change overnight"...then a Mr. Evan Fox chiming in claiming it was a month long study, but concerns should be addressed to the scientific study board...who were conspicuously absent....hmmm..

Or the Kelp Habitat Evaluation, and how each party was not given sufficient time to prepare a defense or argument, relegating it to a later discussion time because no science advisory board members were present. hmmmm...

Then a Dr. Murray touched on the issue later, on the importance of kelp habitat to the eco structure. ie rock formations for kelp to flourish, sandy bottoms not conducive to kelp forests, eel grass and the abundance of kelp. According to his assessment (and his assistant), shouldn't LJ be very healthy and sustainable to life?

The only time LJ kelp is affected is when the kelp cutters come through and back down on the kelp. Was that even entered into the equation?

Again, hmmmm...

One postive - the comment of one Melissa Miller-Hansen ( I could be wrong on the name, 2 placards in front of her) who said, " If we show proof since we are on the water more, that the kelp and sea(eel) grass is healthy, that needs to be brought to our attention."

Last but not least, for all of you who have a passive, hopefulness attitude and choose to stand by, know this.....

The power to change MLPA's, are the DFG, CA Dept of Parks & Rec, a Long Term Monitoring Program (set in place), and an Outreach Education Plan (set in place), plus an 'Adaptive Management Process', are the powers involved to review and re-evaluate to see how the process is functioning statewide......

After 5 YEARS!!!!

If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me...
If I am not wrong, then I guess I took too many notes.

By the way, all meetings are recorded....

Law Hand

04-28-2009, 09:52 PM

For Clay.

"Go at it boldly, and you'll find unexpected forces closing round you and coming to your aid"

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo200/hunting1971/th_afc5a649.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/albums/oo200/hunting1971/?action=view&current=afc5a649.pbr)
Thank you for having the courage and the dedication

PAL

04-28-2009, 10:20 PM

Mr Mugu

04-28-2009, 10:56 PM

:luxhello::you_rock::luxhello:

JJ, Mike G, and Steve M were a couple of the
local guys that showed.

Heard from the ladies that Pierpont represented
at the mixer!

Big thanks to everyone! :luxhello:
/MJ

Dan

04-28-2009, 11:07 PM

sounds like you guys did a great job. thanks. when/where precisely is the next meeting??

bellcon

04-29-2009, 06:16 AM

Being self-employed and a father of 4
free time is hard to come by (I wasn't fishing)
I wish I could have been there with you guys
and I apprieciate your efforts more than words can express
I WILL MAKE A MEETING THATS A PROMISE!

For now:
I was so impressed and inspired by Clays efforts that
I will be making another $ donation to the cause today
In his honor

Thanks Again to all of you who went
Thanks to Paul and MJ for their continued efforts
Thanks to Chris and Steve and others for pumpin up the troops
:you_rock: all of you!

P.S-
that video of Clay just stole best post of the year in my book!
Clay... youda Man!

tylerdurden

04-29-2009, 06:22 AM

Next meeting:

May 20, 2009
Work Session*
Doubletree Hotel Santa Ana
201 East MacArthur Blvd.
Santa Ana, CA 92707 May 21, 2009
Doubletree Hotel Santa Ana
201 East MacArthur Blvd.
Santa Ana, CA 92707
Don't know which day the public comment period is on. It will be posted soon though so everyone can plan.

Mr Mugu

04-29-2009, 06:28 AM

First day is a work session, so Public comment should be on the 21st.

Holy Mackerel

04-29-2009, 06:33 AM

You guys were awesome - good job getting your views across. People noticed. Major props.

Why'd you leave early? We went til 10 PM! Got exciting when 30 RSG members - including MJ and I - presented a letter calling for a pause until the science catches up. More once I get home. We have another tough day ahead.

Paul, I need some details! After getting up at 3:30am, ~5pm was all I could handle!

Time to rally our base, as you can see from the testimony above this process is inherently flawed.

One portion went something like this...

RSG Member: "why are we getting this big stack of scientific information the day before this meeting, shouldn't have time to review it, so we know what we are talking about before we can make a decision."

BRTF Member: "You really don't need to know that information":shot:

Btw, must give Matt Fallon, our gregarious one, props for delivering our message. We pulled our time together, to give one strong single message, rather than repeating ourselves. We can use this strategy next time. Others all contributed their time, on different angles we could not get in our 3minutes of ceded time. It was a plus to have one strong single message, then other voices speaking on their own, to show there were more than one of us, and other perspectives.

chris

fryguy

04-29-2009, 08:54 AM

I've worked as an environmental chemist for years, and I can tell you that there are only two reasons that the scientific data was presented with inadequate time for its review.

1. The science is crap. How good is a science team if they can't put together good evidence until the deadline. The data must've been rushed or they are just incompetent. Either way, there is no way that they performed a thorough study. I'd like to see them admit this.

2. It was a Phillip-Morris-type agenda driven study where facts are cherry picked and opposing data is omitted. They are aware of the subjectivity driving the study and know that it would be easily noticed under adequate review. If this is the case, they ought to be ashamed of calling themselves scientists and an investigation into the cause of their subjectivity is required.

I'm an ass cause I didn't make the meeting, but I would've flipped over a pretentious comment like "You don't need to know about that".

We need publicity... lets call Turko.

SeaDog

04-29-2009, 10:25 AM

Corey

04-29-2009, 10:42 AM

Thanks for going & speaking, guys. :luxhello: :you_rock: I have May 21 off work to head to Santa Ana for the next one.

Holy Mackerel

04-29-2009, 10:45 AM

I guess my point is there were groups and individuals that painted fishermen as ignorant people who want to kill all the fish and environment they live in. At least one speaker accused us of ruining the chances for our children to fish. Fishermen are not stupid, ignorant people, but what we seem to be is complacent and maybe even lazy. We are about to lose a lot with little justification but the large majority of us are just standing by unwilling to participate.

-the other Josh

Other Josh, very good to meet you, thank you for showing up. Great ponits, next time you are going to the podium!!! Raising these concerns about the science, and implementation of MLPA vis a vis its methodology needs to be communicated.

I think most kayakers are conscientious, and have a close tie to our environment, being inches from the water, we have an intimate relationship with the ocean, and it's ecology. One of the early PM shifters, once told me, "kayaking is like riding a bike through the neighborhood, you see so much more, than driving your car through it."

We need to show up, and show we are not the ignorant, "LEAVE MY FAVORITE FISHING HOLE OPEN," Fishermen, but thoughtful anglers, who have a connection, and vested interest in our fishery.

chris

dsafety

04-29-2009, 11:06 AM

The whole process is in many ways brilliant by those who would love to eliminate fishing. They have the legislative authority to shut down large portions of fishing grounds and are pushing hard to complete the process before those most affected have the time to organize and provide counter arguments.

They also seem to understand that closing certain areas will be more effective in reducing fishing because they will reduce access. These areas are targeted for closure while other areas that are similar in geography and biological makeup are not considered.

The science presented was incomplete and largely inconclusive. I don't mean to say that a college professor with a hand full of students looking at a small amount of data and previous models is incompetent, I just don't think it's sufficient data to warrant endangering the lifestyle and livelihoods of many Californians.

Any working model should be constantly measuring the error between predicted results and estimated results. The only clear predictions I heard were not quantifiable. When questions were asked for clear predictions and expectations for the closures, they were immediately dismissed.

I guess my point is there were groups and individuals that painted fishermen as ignorant people who want to kill all the fish and environment they live in. At least one speaker accused us of ruining the chances for our children to fish. Fishermen are not stupid, ignorant people, but what we seem to be is complacent and maybe even lazy. We are about to lose a lot with little justification but the large majority of us are just standing by unwilling to participate.

-the other Josh

Josh's comments are dead on. While I will confess to not being as well educated on this issue as most of you leading the fight, it seems to me that the entire MLPA process is being rushed into. The people pushing this thing do not have a clue, (seal grass?). From what I can tell, the science is bad and the research is extremely incomplete.

These issues, along with the other elephants in the room, (the cost of managing the program and damage to local economies), should be more widely publicized.

While I am sure that it is very important to continue to attend these meetings and try to hammer home our points of view, we need to somehow get the rest of the population into the game. The number of people in California who have even heard of the MLPA is probably a small fraction of one percent, yet if this thing goes through, it will affect hundreds of thousands of us.

Compare this issue to the current swine flu scare. By my count there have been less than 100 cases identified in the US so far but the nightly news is dominated by coverage of this issue and has been for days. My point is that we have to somehow raise the visibility of the MLPA issue and get the public's attention. If we fail to do so, the bureaucrats will end up making uninformed decisions behind closed doors and we will lose something extremely valuable.

Bob

so cal shaggy

04-29-2009, 12:47 PM

Guys, again I cannot thank you for showing up this was a big showing for all consumptive groups. All of you have caught on quite quickly that this process is moving at warp speed with no show of it slowing down for the data to catch up. This whole process is flawed and what is the most frustrating part is that the 1,000 lb. gorilla in the room (pollution) is not being addressed for example if the propossed full closures take affect nothing is going to get better. If they take the fishermen off the water and the spearfishermen out of the water the kelp is not going to grow again and the reason being is that the water quality is not optimum for the kelp to grow back. Another example of unmanaged closures which have not worked are the abalone in Laguna, Newport and Dana point, abalone in the orange county area have been a zero take species since 1981 but I can personally say that there are still hardly any abalone in these areas. The reason for this is that abalone are sensitive to water quality at catalina however within the last few years there are abalone everywhere why, because the water quality out at the islands is better than along the coast. Therefore no matter how much you tell us we cannot harvest or touch them unless the water is cleaned up they will not come back same for the kelp, in Crystal Cove there has been an ongoing kelp restoration project (7 years now) to try and bring back the dense kelp beds in that area and through seeding of the reefs and stopping urban runoff in the area (all runoff in that area is channeled into catch basins which are sent to the treatment plant for the area rather than just flowing into the ocean)has been stopped or drastically reduced to a minnimum and as a result the water in the stretch of Crystal Cove is cleaner than the water in Laguna and the kelp in that area has made a drastic comeback it is the thickest I have seen it in nearly 20 years. These are examples of good management of an area but full coastal closures with no followup management program guidlines established before creating the closure is just going to do more damage than good.

Thanks,
Jeff

Holy Mackerel

04-29-2009, 01:12 PM

Jeff, thanks again for the info, please continue to post on these MLPA threads over here, it is helpful to get everyone's input from all groups. Yes, that was astounding to hear from the BRFT, that water quality was not the primary mission of the MLPA. It is mind boggling that water quality is not central, along with all other factors, to the ecosystem's sustainability.

chris

so cal shaggy

04-29-2009, 02:56 PM

Chris, thanks for giving me the heads up to post on this board. I am trying to see if I can get a MLPA 101 workshop put on for your guys to get an easy understanding of what this whole process is about you might have to settle for an MLPA 102 workshop but I will make sure you guys get the information in an easy to undstertand way because I know how difficult it is to come into this and read through the act itself it is just too much to take in. Give me a week and I will see what I can arrange.

Thanks again all of you guys.

Jeff

kurt

04-29-2009, 04:38 PM

Thanks for posting up those petitions. I've already got my whole company to sign. Everyone, please print those out and get some autographs. If you've ever given fish to anyone, get them to sign. I'm sure they appreciate your fishing grounds.

It was good to see some familiar faces at the meeting yesterday. Hope to see more at the next one.

Paul, sorry I left early. If it was closer to home, I would've stuck it out. How long did the comment session last?

Mr Mugu

04-29-2009, 07:37 PM

Ask and ye shall receive!
Gee thanks alot guys! :lol:

Hot off the press, they've added Tuesday May 19th to our meeting schedule. So we'll be in Santa Ana the 19th, 20th, and 21st.

This meeting has a LARGE chunk of time devoted to YOU!!

We'll be meeting at 1pm for a work session, then break for dinner at I believe 5:30, and then we'll have Public Comment from then on.
Again this is for YOU to be heard! And at a reasonable hour for those trying to make a living.

And yes those that spoke yesterday had a very good impact on our work session today.
Again BIG THANKS!

Chris...PM SENT

Billy V

04-29-2009, 11:17 PM

Matt

04-30-2009, 06:54 AM

[quote=Mr Mugu;37802]Ask and ye shall receive!
Gee thanks alot guys! :lol:

Hot off the press, they've added Tuesday May 19th to our meeting schedule. So we'll be in Santa Ana the 19th, 20th, and 21st.

This meeting has a LARGE chunk of time devoted to YOU!!

We'll be meeting at 1pm for a work session, then break for dinner at I believe 5:30, and then we'll have Public Comment from then on.
Again this is for YOU to be heard! And at a reasonable hour for those trying to make a living.

And yes those that spoke yesterday had a very good impact on our work session today.
Again BIG THANKS!

I think I will attend the entire meeting on the scheduled day for public forum to be allowed due to the fact that Ms. Thuden, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Poncelet seem to continually change the order of the meeting.....Let's just say I don't necessarily trust them all the way:the_finger:

PAL

04-30-2009, 07:27 AM

Former SAC president Bob Fletcher read this letter into the record, excerpted below. MJ Kennedy and I both signed it, as the ground rules have been continually changed, usually at the last minute, making sound decision making next to impossible.

Dear Chairman Benninghoven:
<O:p</O:p

We, the undersigned members of the South Coast Regional Stakeholders Group (SCRSG), are writing to express serious concerns with the direction of the South Coast Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA) planning process.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

When we agreed to constructively participate in this project, we did so with the belief that the process would be fairly adjudicated, unbiased, open and transparent based on consistent direction and quality science. Current events demonstrate this is not the case.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Laboring mostly in the dark and lacking information (habitat mapping, LOPs, etc) which is vital to good judgment, we nonetheless completed our first round of network proposals. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

These have now been analyzed by the Science Advisory Team (SAT). As of the Blue Ribbon Task Force’s (BRTF) recent meeting, none, not even the most preservation oriented plans - could make the grade. This is astonishing. Those of us with intimate, expert knowledge of the study region expected better results. Although the proposed networks may in fact require adjustment, we believe most of the shortcomings lie with the data and its analysis. Many SAT members said as much during their last meeting.

<O:p</O:pWe respectfully disagree with I-team statements that data resolution good enough for the North Central Coast Study Area is sufficient for the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/ /><st1:PlaceName w:st=South</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Coast</st1:PlaceType> study area. But, southern <st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State> is not northern <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State></ST1:pla. Some 24 million people are clustered along our intensively used coastline. We don’t have the luxury of mile after mile of undeveloped shoreline, a situation which permitted the previous process to get by with incomplete and inaccurate science in the Central and North Central study areas. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Furthermore, the BRTF has failed to resolve the military use area issue. The BRTF’s ultimate decision will have serious implications. Without clear policy guidance on the military areas, the RSG’s hands are tied, because we cannot reasonably balance impacts between the user groups likely to be impacted. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

The RSG only has two opportunities to revise MPA proposals following SAT feedback. We believe it would be irresponsible to waste round two on guesswork. The science data – the habitat maps - must be significantly improved and made readily available. The BRTF must provide certainty on the military use area issue.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
These are serious issues that threaten the successful conclusion of this public process. We ask: what is the penalty for waiting until we can get it right? Insisting on sticking to the timetable only serves to heighten suspicions of bias.

Tman

04-30-2009, 07:41 AM

Paul, good to see that brought to light. Even Ms. Tuden acknowledged that, with her comment of why the proposal changes at the last minute...

Another thing that baffles me, referring to Shaggy's statement regarding kelp...at the meeting, alot was mentioned of kelp and it's effect on the habitat. Based on their reasonings regarding underwater structure, rocks, eel grass, etc., as optimum conditions for kelp to thrive, then how can they even factor in LJ as part of their rationale?

We will be at the next meeting...and the point being made that more people need to be made aware of what is actually at stake, I big time agree with that.

Clay enlightened his class, it's a start.

Anyone have something I can print up and make copies to give people a general idea of what's going on and what they can do, maybe a letter they can sign and send away?

Maybe that is one course we can take to get more people involved. Hand them out to co-workers, neighbors, schools...

tylerdurden

04-30-2009, 07:44 AM

Thanks for the update Paul and MJ. Thanks again for spending countless frustrating hours on the cause.

Sorry I am a little unclear about MJ's post, the day added to the next meeting, May 19 is the day with the public comment now? Just want to make sure I ask for time off work on the right day since it is just over 2 weeks away already.

PAL

04-30-2009, 07:50 AM

I have a lot to say this morning, so please forgive the back to back posts.

The MLPA planning process continued unabated yesterday. Although hampered by the ever-changing data, MJ and I did our best to represent kayak fishing interests. I can't say how it went, not because I've been muzzled. I only know what took place right in front of my eyes, in a group of about 8 stakeholders. That was mixed.

I want you to hear two messages.

1) Preserving access to La Jolla will be a difficult, uphill battle. If we are to have any chance of success, YOU BETTER TURN OUT AT THE MEETINGS FROM HERE ON OUT. Don't be surprised if the other side starts showing up in force.

Can't go? Then please donate to the PSO and keep our lobbyist in the game. Go here for details: http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/showthread.php?t=4834

Direct link to the PSO donation page: https://keepamericafishing.org/donation/

I may have a second organization to recommend very soon, as it is nearing the time to raise money for any eventuality.

2) Other groups in the fishing community have been offered incentives to trade away all or part of La Jolla in return for concessions elsewhere. Because I have actively campaigned for solutions that balance impact between fishing groups, our friends are unlikely to turn on us. Especially if we are LOUD, PROUD, AND IN EVIDENCE AT THE MEETINGS. In spite of my confidence in our friends, we have to put in our own work.

Consider this my personal thank-you to all those kayak anglers who made the trip to Oxnard. Most of the guys arrived early, and suffered through the marathon meeting along with me and MJ. That was top shelf, and I don't blame you one bit for hitting the road after public comment. If I could have, I'd have been right on your heels. I'm only sorry you didn't see the debate that followed delivery of the delay letter. I'm proud to know all of you, especially Clay. At 9 years old, you are already one formidable guy. Everyone else on this board may be taller, but today, we're all looking up at you.

PAL

04-30-2009, 07:54 AM

Sorry I am a little unclear about MJ's post, the day added to the next meeting, May 19 is the day with the public comment now? Just want to make sure I ask for time off work on the right day since it is just over 2 weeks away already. 

To tell you the truth, I don't know any better than you. We know public comment is scheduled for the evening of May 19 as of today. There may be another public comment session on the 21st, prior to RSG action on which round 2 proposals move forward. Then again, there may not be. We wont know for certain until an agenda has been posted.

Billy V

04-30-2009, 11:21 AM

I received a CHange E Mail this morning. More last minute changes to confuse, and shake off the fleas.

[MLPA Initiative] Calendar changes for BRTF and SCRSG
California Marine Life Protection Act Initiative Announcement

Who: MLPA Blue Ribbon Task Force (BRTF) and MLPA South Coast Regional Stakeholder Group (SCRSG)

What: Calendar changes

When: New meeting date on May 8, 2009 at 12:00 noon (BRTF) and additional work session on May 19, 2009 at 1:00 p.m. (SCRSG)

Where: Via teleconference (BRTF on May 8) and Santa Ana (SCRSG on May 19)

zenspearo

04-30-2009, 03:22 PM

From a spearo who has been attending these MLPA meetings--a big thank you to our kayak fishing brothers.

I'm from San Diego as well and I too believe that La Jolla is seriously threatened. It, along with Palos Verde, constitutes ground zero in this MLPA fight.

We need to show up in force or we will be hosed when this is over. This is especially true for you guys who need to launch at Avenida de la Playa. If they close La Jolla, you will need to make a 5-mile each-way to even be allowed to begin to fish.

The MLPA people says they only want to close 20%. But the science criteria they use is pretty much the same as that for the Central Coast. In the Central Coast, most of the coast has rocks, kelp, sand, etc. In Socal, 80% is sand. What that means is their 20% covers the only fishing grounds that serve millions of Californians. It's designed that way to eff the fishermen and you need to fight.

Hats off to the kayak fishermen who showed up April 28 and April 29th. You kayak fishermen have strong reps in Paul and MJ. Please continue to support your reps by showing up to speak and don't forget to thank them for this shitty job that they are handed.

SeaDog

04-30-2009, 08:12 PM

I think we should shoot a video demonstrating why La Jolla is a safe launch when compared to other launch sites. We could play it behind a speaker stressing the safety issues in shutting down La Jolla. I think videos of kayakers getting rocked by the surf is something that would memorable for all in attendance. I'd be willing to participate in the wiping out part of this demonstration, I'm a natural.

Holy Mackerel

04-30-2009, 09:09 PM

Joe (Zenspearo) thanks for stoking up the masses! :) For those kayakers that don't know, Joe has spent a lot of his time, getting the spearos together, attending meetings, and speaking on behalf of consumptives = us... :wsb::lobster::yt:

Joe, if you have any helpful info, please do not hesitate to post up over here.

Chris :cool:

PAL

04-30-2009, 09:48 PM

One thing I've noticed about Joe. When he gives testimony, he talks about kayak anglers and private boaters, not just free divers. Kayak anglers might want to return the favor, we have so much in common.

so cal shaggy

05-01-2009, 01:44 AM

Hey guys, I copied this from spearboard.com. This is an information workshop that breaks down and explains the MLPA process without all the mumbo jumbo. It is broken down into laymans terms please make a concerned effort to attend one of these sessions.

We have been given a great opportunity!!! Count them...3 nights of MLPA 101!!!http://www.spearboard.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Monday, May 11. Tuesday, May 12. Monday, May 18.

Start time will be 7PM. It will still take me 2 solid hrs to cover all the pertinent information. I will likely have the newest iterations of some work room maps if I can smuggle them out. We will be going over things a little differently, as it is pretty late in the game for some of the stuff regarding SAT review and such. No matter, we will give you the ins and outs! The guys at UASC are really doing the fishing public a big favor, and I am really greatful for the opportunity.

The best contact for location info and adress, etc is United Anglers of Southern California. (949) 863-9447. I will post an adress tomorrow for you. The location is in Signal Hill, Long Beach. We can handle 100 a night!!