A message from the President- Ocean Czar? [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

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j mo

06-19-2009, 10:35 AM

I'll get this out of the way- I have never been more disappointed and ashamed by a single person in my life, not to mention the state of politics in our great nation......

In case you haven't seen this- here's what's coming, outlined in a letter from the THE WHITE HOUSE dated June 12th:

MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
SUBJECT: NATIONAL POLICY FOR THE OCEANS, OUR COASTS, AND THE GREAT LAKES

To succeed in protecting the oceans, coasts, and Great Lakes, the United States needs to act within a unifying framework under a clear national policy, including a comprehensive, ecosystem-based framework for the longterm conservation and use of our resources.........

here is a link to the memo in its entirety- http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:B8jn9PRoYOIJ:www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-National-Oceans-Month-and-Memorandum-regarding-national-policy-for-the-oceans/+%22Interagency+Ocean+Policy+Task+Force%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:B8jn9PRoYOIJ:www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-National-Oceans-Month-and-Memorandum-regarding-national-policy-for-the-oceans/+%22Interagency+Ocean+Policy+Task+Force%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari)

dos ballenas

06-19-2009, 12:53 PM

What exactly is your point of concern?

The way marine ecosystems have been managed in the past no longer applies to the current understanding of how the ocean works.

We are learning that everything we once thought to be true is in fact in not.

Why not try and establish a more efficient and up to date system to evaluate the health of our mother ocean?

This MEMORANDUM has nothing to do with the MLPA process currrently under way, and would in fact benefit fishermen as opposed to the environmentalists... as it would include actual reasearch and science...

My take of the message is that we need to be better organised and not waste so much money on conflicting methods and policy which doesn't work.

Are you still mad about losing the election or what? Get over it.

Arne

06-19-2009, 01:30 PM

This MEMORANDUM has nothing to do with the MLPA process currrently under way.

Actually, at first glance my thought is that this may have a potential impact on the MLPA. I'm not a constitutional lawyer so maybe ZenSpearo can jump on this, but I remember a little from a long time ago - something called the Supremacy Clause in the US Constitution. Basically, the US Constitution and federal laws supercede state laws; meaning that if the Feds intend to regulate the entire coastline/fishery, etc. and Congress ends up going that route then the federal regulatory scheme may supercede laws/regs that the State of California has or is trying to implement via the MLPA (it is a State-run deal, right?). Maybe even get rid of the NoCal and MidCal mlpa closures? Who knows.

It may not end up with the outcome we want (less closures) since the Feds may completely screw it up and close it all, but it could be a potential legal argument for the anti-mlpa crowd.

Just a quick thought ...

j mo

06-20-2009, 11:44 AM

What exactly is your point of concern?

Are you still mad about losing the election or what? Get over it.

My point of concern is that the current administration has exemplified California environmental policies and that the MLPA could be used as blueprint for the nation and could be easily passed off to the public as something designed”to save/heal mother ocean". <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

While California’s budget deficit is the largest single obstacle to implementation, that issue becomes moot w respect to the federal governments ability to implement a "national type" MLPA under the federal stimulus package.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Just a few thoughts. I’ve edited my original email, as my concern with our current state of politics may have offended some.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
(Dos BallENAS, I used the plural form "politics" which implies all, or both sides of our political party , Implying that I am equally dissapointed...)

FISHIONADO

06-20-2009, 11:53 AM

Not flaming anyone, just another opinion...

I really appreciate the President taking seriously the situation happening in our oceans. I like to eat fish and still do but you just can't deny the earth's oceans have lost an incredible amount of consumptive bio-mass. Once the tuna and other open ocean fish are wiped out they will come after our yellowtail and white sea bass, or even calico bass. :eek:

We need to use the best science available to understand and regulate the health of the species. I would support size limits and slot limits and other restrictions based on objective data. Only the US fed government can do that.

The first paragraph of the President's memo is magnificent.
The oceans, our coasts, and the Great Lakes provide jobs, food, energy resources, ecological services, recreation, and tourism opportunities, and play critical roles in our Nation's transportation, economy, and trade, as well as the global mobility of our Armed Forces and the maintenance of international peace and security. We have a stewardship responsibility to maintain healthy, resilient, and sustainable oceans, coasts, and Great Lakes resources for the benefit of this and future generations.

Fiskadoro

06-20-2009, 01:43 PM

I'll get this out of the way- I have never been more disappointed and ashamed by a single person in my life, not to mention the state of politics in our great nation..

I think it's interesting how people approach the MLPA process politically. Some use whatever knowledge they have about politics to try and fight for our rights and keep key areas open, others I feel just try to use the MLPA process to push their wider political ideology or agenda.

For almost a decade we've had some partisan fisherman trying to make the claim that only their party was concerned about our fishing rights, and that their party alone would help us. Their party had unprecedented power for almost that whole time period, and they did nothing help us at all.

Many of their actions worked against us. They created the largest MPAs in History (Hawaii), diverted our water from key rivers for big agribusiness (Klamath, Sacramento) which in turn killed off our salmon fishery. At the same time they did absolutely nothing to slow down, regulate, or stop the MLPA process. They also set up a second process for federal offshore closure's MPA's in motion. You may not realize it but when they are done with the near shore MLPAs they are also going to hit us with federal MPAs a process that the last administration heavily endorsed.

Now looking around... I can't see anyone from either party that has taken a strong stand against the MLPA closures. The closest would be Dean Flores (who just happens to be in the same party as the President you are ashamed of) as he's pushed for more accountability, oversight, and a hard look at the books.

Jim

bellcon

06-20-2009, 02:14 PM

I got an idea...
lets just kick each others asses for the next couple weeks
then...
who is ever left standing can band together and fight the MLPA process:shot:

next up on the agenda...Religion

:leaving:

Law Hand

06-20-2009, 02:19 PM

Only the US fed government can do that

Seriously?

Fiskadoro

06-20-2009, 02:59 PM

My point of concern is that the current administration has exemplified California environmental policies and that the MLPA could be used as blueprint for the nation...

You probably should look at the MPA process as what your talking about already exists, and it was not created during the Obama Administration but went forward during the Bush administration.

Bush loved MPAs: He worked with Groups like the Ocean Conservancy and created the largest MPAs on the planet.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/285/23995copy.jpg

That area is now all closed to fishing.

You might want to note the the rationalization for that massive closure was seal protection.

Bush couldn't even wait for the MPA process to go through the proper public hearings etc...

He feared it would be held up till the next administration, so he stepped in and staged an intervention and directly signed the reserve into existence with a Presidential decree, a proclamation to create the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands Marine National Monument on June 15, 2006.

I used the plural form "politics" which implies all, or both sides of our political party , Implying that I am equally dissapointed

Your post is not really equal or nonpartisan, why pretend otherwise? You can't mitigate an attack by adding "I am equally dissapointed" at the end of it, after directing your attack at only one side.

Jim

Willy

06-20-2009, 04:40 PM

Guess the honeymoon's not over yet J mo.

Anyone who thinks the Fed will do a good, or fair job of determining regulating and MPA's or any other PA, especially one that will be benificial to fishermen right now, might be interested in a bridge I have for sale.

This proposal isn't even being disguised, it's another move to expand the powers our Federal government over that of the States. There has been a lot of that lately. More regulation = more control = less freedom.

I'll keep it at that.

Willy

dsafety

06-20-2009, 06:35 PM

While I applaud the President's stated goals, the implementation of any such policy on a national scale will leave most of the local concerns in the dust. We have seen what can happen here in California where some of the powers that be are trying to apply the "one size fits all" approach to the current negotiations.

Because they are rushed for time and under pressure from lobbyists, (from all sides), these folks have chosen to ignore the science and bow to the heaviest pressure. This is not the best way to save the world.

Bob

FISHIONADO

06-20-2009, 07:44 PM

Tman

06-20-2009, 08:03 PM

MLPA - from shore to 3 miles out - CA waters...

Beyond that, it is Federal jurisdiction.

Slot limits, keeping foreign vessels out, educating the public, enforcement of regs, I can think of a myriad of ways to go about this.

Calling fish 'sea kittens' is not one...

FISHIONADO

06-21-2009, 04:51 PM

I'm going to enjoy some Alaskan sea kitten halibut for Father's Day dinner tonight.

Not aqua-farmed fish that requires ten times the calories of grain to produce the fish.

I want that Alaska resource managed sustainably. I want the open ocean managed. Otherwise after everything else is gone the commercial folks will come for my local yellowtail, white sea bass, and calico kittens. :D

Happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there!

Fiskadoro

06-21-2009, 06:18 PM

I'm going to enjoy some Alaskan sea kitten halibut for Father's Day dinner tonight

I think I'm going to enjoy some wet errrr emmm kitten myself tonight :biggrinjester: