Round 3 maps are up.

[zenspearo]

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/scrsg-dprops-r3.asp

Group 1 map for LJ trully sucks. Their logic escapes me.

Group 3 is not much better.

Point Dume's map from Groups 1 and 3 are frightening. So is Laguna's map from groups 1 and 3.

We have to show up to speak about these maps on Oct. 21st.

1:30PM and 7PM on Wednesday Oct. 21st in Long Beach.

[Tman]

Group 1 map for LJ trully sucks. Their logic escapes me...

Agree.

Bet the enviros are looking at it and still wondering why can't they get more closed...:mad:

[robmandel]

yeah, seems we show up in number, voice our concerns, and they reem us even harder. this is complete nonsense. they could just as easily leave them as limited take areas, SMCA's or whatever the hell the acronym is. and they could accomplish their so-called goals. but we know what they really are.

we ought to make it clear on the 21st that it seems our voices are irrelevant and that it seems the whole pblic thing is a sham. and of course, how in the hell are they going to enforce all these closures. or is the packard foundation gonna hire a private police force too. hell, we're so far in debt, we're damn near a banana republic. what's one more thing.

of course, we can always pay the mordida :the_finger::the_finger::the_finger::the_finger:

[Gino]

The KFACA shoulda struck a working deal with the Mafia! :P They know how to get thier voices heard without opening thier mouths! Just dont want to end up like Hoffa!

[tylerdurden]

Well, as Tommy says, Group 2 sucks the best, especially for San Diego. We need to support it if we have any chance of a decent outcome.

I sat in on group 3 when they were drawing the final maps at the last meeting. One member couldn't even find San Nicolas Island on the map :( . That is how clueless some of these people are as they draw closures that will affect our lives. Same with the Dipshit, I mean dipnet issue in that group. That said, not all members of that group are dipnets. One I spoke with at the last meeting pushed for us after we talked to him.

The good news is every single member knows about kayak access issues in north LJ, even if they wanted to step all over us. We should be happy that they did hear us, and we did make some difference. We have to keep doing it.

[rogersmith]

this is the most moronic thing I have ever seen in my life. I lived through the striped bass closure on the east coast and they understood one basic rule...FISH SWIM YOU MORONS! The closure, was comprehensive when it was required. And it was based on science. What, do they think the fish will get a copy of their little maps and know where to swim into the colored boxes to avoid being caught? Good lord.

[dgax65]

For the enviros, this is all just a theoretical exercise. They have NO TANGIBLE STAKE in this process. If there were no closures, they would lose nothing. If they close the entire coast, they lose nothing. They literally have nothing tangible to lose. We are the only ones that stand to lose access. Any closure is a net gain for them. Bargaining usually involves a give and take process. You give up a little something of value and the other guy gives up a little something of his. Bargaining only works when both sides have to part with something of value. Regardless of the outcome of this deeply flawed process, they lose nothing. They can demand draconian closures, because, even if they have to back off a little on their proposals, they still have won.

This whole thing makes me sick.

[tylerdurden]

For the enviros, this is all just a theoretical exercise. They have NO TANGIBLE STAKE in this process. If there were no closures, they would lose nothing. If they close the entire coast, they lose nothing. They literally have nothing tangible to lose. We are the only ones that stand to lose access. Any closure is a net gain for them. Bargaining usually involves a give and take process. You give up a little something of value and the other guy gives up a little something of his. Bargaining only works when both sides have to part with something of value. Regardless of the outcome of this deeply flawed process, they lose nothing. They can demand draconian closures, because, even if they have to back off a little on their proposals, they still have won.

This whole thing makes me sick.

exactly.

They "let us" have 50% of our fishing grounds and we are supposed to say thank you and give them a pat on the back becuase they didn't take 90% of the productive areas. The humiliation is we have to beg and complain just to get the 50% back.

We have to show up or they will take everything they can get, or everything we give up by not showing up.

[Billy V]

We have to show up or they will take everything they can get, or everything we give up by not showing up.

We need the entire contingent of Kayak/Spearo sportsman present at this meeting, or we will loose it all.

[Holy Mackerel]

We need the entire contingent of Kayak/Spearo sportsman present at this meeting, or we will loose it all.

We'll get the good ol fashioned "Roll Call" closer to the date, seems like the lists grows day by day!!!

[JoeBeck]

Just checking out the maps in detail.

Where: MLPA website: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/<wbr>scrsg-dprops-r3.asp (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/scrsg-dprops-r3.asp)
MarineMap: http://www.<wbr>marinemap.org/marinemap/ (http://www.marinemap.org/marinemap/)


Group 2 is the best for La Jolla and my Catalina spots but it sucks for Point Loma.

[stuppid]

Whichever one is the worst for the greatest amount of people will be the on that passes. Has anyone ever considered that there is no regulation that you have to have a GPS onboard your vessel? How are they going to enforce the closures? How are you supposed to know if you are within the closure or not? If you are fishing 1000' inside of a closure and fish and game roll up and ticket you what evidence will they bring to court? Will their GPS observations hold up in court? Will it have to be calibrated periodically like a radar gun? They would have to sneak up on you and catch you fishing to give you a ticket. You can posess fish and fishing gear while in a closure. I know that if I am a mile and a half off shore even with binoculars they will have a hard time knowing whether I am fishing or not and I don't think a boat can sneak up on me.

[CurtyL]

stuppid - They'll probably drop some buoys out there and that will be that. They won't have the money to staff enforcement. DFG doesn't want to take this one on. Map 2 is best, but not the probable solution. I can live with any of the three maps. Adapt and overcome.

[forefrazier]

All (3) of them are straight up B.S! :banghead:

[stuppid]

They will not drop buoys. I fish the central coast and they have nothing marking the MPA's. There is no way to tell if you are in the closure beside a GPS. The MPA's that are especially hard are the ones that only extend a mile or so offshore.

[tylerdurden]

By fishing you acknowledge that you know the regulations, bag limits, size limits, and where you can and cannot fish. The no GPS excuse will not fly.

[Stoneale]

So just to be clear, SMCA = no fishing right? I see that they added Dana Point to the 3rd phase map as an SMCA. I wonder if this includes fishing in the harbor as well.

:the_finger: MLPA :the_finger:

[tylerdurden]

So just to be clear, SMCA = no fishing right? I see that they added Dana Point to the 3rd phase map as an SMCA. I wonder if this includes fishing in the harbor as well.

SMCA can include fishing. Some do not. Go to:
http://www.<WBR>marinemap.org/marinemap/ (http://www.marinemap.org/marinemap/)

Then bring up the proposal you have questions about. Click on the area and the rational behind the closure, and the list of allowed uses should come up. Not all blue areas, or SMCA's are equal. Some allow all fishing. some allow no rec fishing.

edit->
make sure you click on the round 3 maps. Those are the only ones that matter now. There are 3 maps.

[Stoneale]

Thanks.. this is what I am seeing for Round 3 SMCA of Dana Point:

Additional Proposed Allowed Uses
Commercial and recreational take of sheephead, rockfish, rays, sharks, marine plants and invertebrates is prohibited, except
(a)the recreational take of lobster and urchin is allowed and
(b)the commercial take of lobster, including incidental catch taken under the authority of a lobster permit (see note), and urchin is allowed
(c)the take of species not mentioned above and allowed under general take regulations is allowed.

NOTE: Current allowed incidental catch includes: FGC 8250.5 (b) Crab (other than Dungeness), Kellet's whelk, and octopus.

This MPA has been manually assigned a level of protection of moderate low by staff.

Boundary Description
North: 33 29' and MHTL
South: 33 27' between 117 43' and 117 42.4'
East: MHTL and 117 42.4' (west end of jetty) down to 33 27'
West: diagonal line with the northwest corner at 33 29' and 117 45' and the southwest corner at 33 27' and 117.43'

So if I am reading this correctly, I will still be able to fish bass, yt, wsb, etc.. if this is approved.