Live from the BRTF meeting [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Waterâ€™s Edge

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PAL

11-10-2009, 08:32 AM

I'm at the BRTF meeting. If you aren't, why not?

For those who couldn't make it or will be coming later, I am planning to cover it in real time via my Facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=100000298961000&ref=name

You must be logged onto Facebook to see it. Anyone who can get on is welcome to copy and paste the posts here in this thread.

The portal for the live web stream of the meeting is http://www.cal-span.org/

Send us good vibes - we need them.

tylerdurden

11-10-2009, 08:56 AM

Ocean-Angler

11-10-2009, 10:51 AM

Fasten your seatbelts, keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times.

This is gonna be one hell of a ride.

I am sitting here in the room now and it's almost all fishermen. Nice work guys.
HELL YEA!!!!!
good job tyler
Good job all on all your efforts
Hopign some of the guys I emailed and posted about this on sportfisherman blodydecks etc showed.
sorry I couldt make it, I got no ride and im out here in Norco LOL

tylerdurden

11-10-2009, 11:00 AM

bender0240

11-10-2009, 11:47 AM

Shit. 3 at least seems infinitely better than the other 2. Hope they have mercy.

Ohana

11-10-2009, 01:01 PM

Tyler:

Thanks for keeping us up to date on this.

I had planned to be there, but my companies sales group let go of some people in Southern California yesterday afternoon and I had to put together this morning a plan to prevent us from losing business they were calling on that used my product line.

Kevin

Iceman

11-10-2009, 02:29 PM

Charles V was attacked this morning by this .............man :D

http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/901/901_hi_boys.jpg

Gino

11-10-2009, 02:40 PM

and who won!? :biggrinjester:

:doh:

JoeBeck

11-10-2009, 02:46 PM

Not Charles

dsafety

11-10-2009, 02:46 PM

For those who are not following this thing on line, the BRTF is on a break until 3:45. When they return they will be hearing final comments on the motion submitted by one of the members that covers all the proposed closures. For San Diego, the one that has been proposed is Option 2, (not the former Map 2). After the comments, they plan to vote.

Option 2 is not the worst of the the proposed options but is still pretty bad. We get a slightly larger North La Jolla area but all of South La Jolla and a big chunk of North County is closed to fishing for eternity.

This is not yet a done deal but it is close.

Bob

DESTROYER

11-10-2009, 02:49 PM

I've been listening to the Meeting while I input schedules and getting ready for tonights banquets. Talk about frustrating. Some of those people make no sense at all. I loved the question about "Good Kelp" and "Bad Kelp". I wish they would have answered it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for 2!

:cheers1:

Tman

11-10-2009, 02:54 PM

Aw $hit Charles...careful, they are known to have no spine...

Just got off the phone with Tyler, Meg is doing her 'let me talk and ramble and kill time so you fishermen don't have enough time to speak since I don't want to hear you anyway' rant...public speaking is just now getting underway according to Tyler.

Guys that made the trek, :notworthy::you_rock:...

I had to take the lad to school this morn, and if public speaking is just now going on I don't think I would've made it back in time to pick him up from after-school...and there was no way I could justify taking him out of school for this since he just had fall break.
Plus I think he has had enough of seeing this nonsense...

Otherwise I would've been there...I know, lame excuse...

Tman

11-10-2009, 02:58 PM

Option 2 is not the worst of the the proposed options but is still pretty bad. We get a slightly larger North La Jolla area but all of South La Jolla and a big chunk of North County is closed to fishing for eternity.
Bob

Thanks for the update Bob...

Looks like Swamis is done, we can thank Surfwhiners for that. Wonder if they realize they could potentially close Swamis to all, even surfers?:doh::doh::doh:

Don't think it matters, half of them don't surf anyway, esp not that phookin' kook who spouted off...:the_finger:

Ocean-Angler

11-10-2009, 03:14 PM

Brtf is thinking about sparing pv, and in return Malibu gets thrown under the biggest bus possible.

LJ sucks. 4 is the only option they aren't considering. Gotta try and uncouple the scripps smca from those damn maps.
so basically, of all the options, on all subregions, they give us the one we want the least..
and of the region we fight for most, they give us our last choice
very fair.
yes.. yes very fair
damn

Wish I coulda made it.. dont know what difference it woulda made..
now that im not on parole, I coulda got in some lamo enviros face and waited for them to do something.. with not bad of reprocussions
eh
laim

dsafety

11-10-2009, 03:20 PM

This just in! They have decided to remove the requirement that we only catch our bait at the pier by "dip net". I guess that means that Sabikis are now OK.

More to come.

Bob

dsafety

11-10-2009, 03:36 PM

A guy from the DFG Warden's Assn. just got up and said that regardless of what comes out of this thing, they, (the game wardens), will not be able to inforce the regs. They do not have the staff to inforce the current regulations and call this thing a threat to their safety.

Interesting.

Bob

dos ballenas

11-10-2009, 03:56 PM

North County is closed to fishing for eternity.

:doh:

Iceman

11-10-2009, 04:06 PM

blue shirts are disgusted and appalled by the direction.......that is a good thing. :D

dsafety

11-10-2009, 04:20 PM

Comments from the little people, (us), are being presented now. Those who support our point of view outnumber the others 3/1. I doubt the BRTF is listening, however. I suspect that their minds are already made up.

One guy raised the ADA card. This is important because many of the proposed closures eliminate access for the handicapped. If someone takes this issue to court, implementation could be delayed for years.

Any attorneys interested in taking this one on?

Bob

Ocean-Angler

11-10-2009, 04:22 PM

dsafety

11-10-2009, 04:37 PM

Good News!!!

They are talking about not changing the shape of the existing LJ reserve. That means that we could catch bait at the pier and fish for anything north of the pier except for a very small area just north of the pier as requested by Scripps.

The BRTF member who lines up against us most of the time will not change her motion to allow this but others in the group seem to be supportive.

Stay tuned.

Bob

dsafety

11-10-2009, 04:47 PM

It's done. We have option 2. South LJ and Swami's are closed. We get a larger N. LJ area but also a larger La Jolla reserve, including all the areas north of the pier.

This was very interesting to watch. It was obvious to me that the BRTF just wanted to get a result. In their own words, "this is not perfect"

No Shit! The DFG cannot and will not enforce these new regulations. ADA issues may tie this up in court for years.

Watching this process has reinforced my opinion that our Government is broken. Special interests always win.

I suspect that we have not heard the end of this one yet however.

Bob

Willy

11-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Well said Bob.
We appricate the updates. I caught the end of the live cast on video and like you agree, the government is broken.
Their attitudes at the end really did reflect they just wanted to get some result; science, fairness, and every other bit of hyperbole they used be damned.
I'm ashamed our system has fallen into the hands of special interests, but money talks and bullsh!t gets a promotion.
Hopefully the DFG will tell these folks to shove it.

Sorry for the candor, but this process has me fully flustered.
Well done to those who could make it today, and to those who put so much forth for us all.
Willy

dos ballenas

11-10-2009, 05:09 PM

forefrazier

11-10-2009, 05:18 PM

please specify... do you mean that fishing is closed north of the pier? Or open? Can we fish Blacks?

NO...Just keep on fishing until someone comes up to you in a DFG boat and tells you to leave. Not going to happen anyway.

dsafety

11-10-2009, 05:19 PM

The shape that was put forward in the latest option 2 was approved. We will be allowed to catch bait at the pier with a hook but the area north of the pier will now be a SMCA, (State Marine Conservation Area). This means that the take from this area will be limited.

I am not sure what the limitations are but given the way this thing has gone, I suspect that is is fairly close to a no-take zone.

It is hard to tell from the map. http://resources.ca.gov/mlpa_scrsg/BRTF%20OPTIONS%20UNDER%20REVIEW/Maps_Subregoinal_BRTFOptions_091030.pdf

It looks like the SMCA north of the pier does not include all of Blacks.

I am sure Paul can provide more details.

Bob

dos ballenas

11-10-2009, 05:26 PM

<DT>A big thank you to everyone who could make it today! Sorry I could not be there. Heres to hoping that the final details go smooothly and we can all enjoy fishing parts of La Jolla for the rest of our lives! </DT><DT><DT>
As taken from http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/defs.asp#smca

<DT><DT>State Marine Conservation Area [36700(c) PRC]

<DD>A "state marine conservation area," is a non-terrestrial marine or estuarine area that is designated so the managing agency may achieve one or more of the following:

protect or restore rare, threatened or endangered native plants, animals or habitats in marine areas;
protect or restore outstanding, representative or imperiled marine species, communities, habitats and ecosystems;
protect or restore diverse marine gene pools;
contribute to the understanding and management of marine resources and ecosystems by providing the opportunity for scientific research in outstanding, representative or imperiled marine habitats or ecosystems;
preserve outstanding or unique geological features; or
provide for sustainable living marine resource harvest.
I like # 6... maybe they will allow pelagics...<DD> <DD>
but its still sad about Swamis... I will always remember you:

<DD>

</DD>

Iceman

11-10-2009, 06:09 PM

BIG Thanks to Kiyo and Baytubers for making sure we got fed today! That was alot of pizza! :luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello::luxhello:

Tman

11-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Great job feeding the troops Kiyo and the Baytubers crew...:cheers1:

Now had I known I would've been fed...$hit, Andy showed up again?
I most certainly would've showed up just to see the Master...:sifone:

robmandel

11-10-2009, 06:55 PM

bittersweet day. got to see lots of new friends again but under rather shitty conditions. such an awesome bond among us kayak fishermen. really awesome. there are not better people in the world.

got there early, had to leave sometime after the break. had to get the kids from school and what not. really a shitty thing they did, with the public comment and all. did they ever get there???

guys, stand proud. we fought like hell. you have to understand. this process was a sham and the out determined right from the outset. it didn't matter what we did. we did everything we could, and Paul and our reps and guys who organized and got info and all that, went so far beyond the call. of course we had everything on our side: data, science, economics, and basic fairness and common sense. it didn't matter.

the whole "public" part of this was the cover. they knew what they watned to do, and what they had to do to get it done. textbook tactics. you want A, B, and C so you ask for A, B, C, D, and E. so, you "give up" D and E which to them was the part of PV. they can say they heard the public, they listened, all that shit, made necessary swaps and trades and cuts, and all that. and in the end, get exactly what they wanted in the first place.

we played on their turf, by their rules, with their referees. but we fought like hell. we didn't lay there and play dead. they perhaps didn't figure on that one.

I knew it from the start, but it was never more evident when after the break marvelous meg up and decides that only Malibu option 1 will be discussed (my home turf). 3 met all the science, had the best kelp, a compromise on the canyon, best public access, and least commercaial and recreational loss. so she chooses the worst option. of course they saved rocky point (PV), taking that would have killed redondo and the city council made that one clear.

this isn't the end. it's the beginning. they'll come back to close more. but for us, the fight must continue. legally, politically, etc. the DFG already said they can't (and my guess is honestly, won't, as the politics and PR would be a nightmare) enforce it.

again, we put up a helluva fight and have every reason to be proud. know that there wasn't anything, or anything more, we could have done to alter the outcome. it was an honor to be able to stand tall alongside all ofyou that were there, at c-bad, at LAX, at LB, and LAX again.

in the future, we need to do a MLPA protest event: we get as many of us as possible and do a major launch at each of the closed areas. just get a few hundred of us out there, all lined up, on the water, and make our presence known. waht a sight it would be !!!

especially after the closures.

again, you guys are awesome, amazing, and truly the best. this isn't a failure, it's a victory. it might not seem like it, but we fought and they didn't kill us. they've made us stronger.

see y'all on the water.

Tman

11-10-2009, 06:58 PM

:iagree:

bender0240

11-10-2009, 07:13 PM

I'd like to personally wish the people of the MLPA the BEST of luck securing the $70million a year plus the cost of installing and maintaining the new boundary buoys, signage and documentation, a plethora of unforeseen costs and especially enforcement. *sarcasm*(i wish there was a sarcasm smiley) It should be cake to set aside $70mil a year in the most bankrupt state in the US. *sarcasm* Hey it was so easy for them to get to this point. It only took, how long since the bill passed? Ten years? They should have this thing up and running by AT LEAST 2020.

No but seriously, good luck.*sarcasm* And to all you wanna-be enviro, greenpeace, save-the-cutest-animals, grass-smoking, tree-molesting, crystal-grippin', lazy, cheating, smarmy, two-faced, hypocritical pieces of shit: I find a lot of pleasure in the fact that you think this is a victory for us fisherman. I hope it causes you a great deal of pain. If I can find any way to add to that pain I certainly will.

Iceman

11-10-2009, 07:26 PM

had to leave sometime after the break. had to get the kids from school and what not. really a shitty thing they did, with the public comment and all. did they ever get there???Rob, I was in the same boat and had to cut out. Frustrating how slow the day moved. For those that endured all the way up until public comment around 4 pm after being there for 7+ hours, my thanks to you! I watched most of the remainder on line.

Sunburn

11-10-2009, 08:27 PM

the DFG already said they can't (and my guess is honestly, won't, as the politics and PR would be a nightmare) enforce it.

Don't worry, DFG is not needed for enforcement.

Using the Children's pool at LJ as an example, there will be "nuts" in 150 HP Zodiacs yelling at you through a bull horn, cutting lines and ramming boats "enforcing MLPA law"

I'm just saying....

peguinpower

11-10-2009, 08:36 PM

I have something to say to those tree huggin wack job enviros....

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/130245294_23b05ea699_o.jpg
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/130245294_23b05ea699_o.jpg)

fryguy

11-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Don't worry, DFG is not needed for enforcement.

Using the Children's pool at LJ as an example, there will be "nuts" in 150 HP Zodiacs yelling at you through a bull horn, cutting lines and ramming boats "enforcing MLPA law"

I'm just saying....

Nah...from the looks of it, i bet most of them never go anywhere near the water.

I do wonder though - you'd think that if the Packard Foundation and other enviro interest groups spent all this effort and money to get their agenda, they'd have the DFG locked up too. Why would they overlook this?

Does anybody know what happens if there is no funding for the research or to monitor the MPAs? Do they just sit there and we get f*#ked for nothing?

Siebler

11-10-2009, 09:06 PM

bellcon

11-10-2009, 09:11 PM

Just remember the phrase "I was in fear for my life" and youll be fine :cool:

exactly...

that's the phrase I would have used if I was Charles
to explain the puddle on the floor

tylerdurden

11-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Wow.

That sucked. I will post my full thoughts tomorrow or when I recover.

We came out OK in San Diego. Pretty bad in most other ways, ok in others.

I am so sorry for the battles that we lost. It was a tragedy. Some of our best grounds were lost forever.

I think our participation made a big difference in terms of LJ. If it wasn't for our turnout, we would still be arguing over the kelp in North LJ. Still, we could have turned out better throughout the process to support our access issues in all our launch and fishing zones.

Thanks to Paul L, MJ Kennedy, Joel G, Tommy G, and every RSG member on our side. You guys did great for us.

Dan

11-10-2009, 09:36 PM

Tyler, Billy, Chris, Joe and everyone else on this board who put in their emails, comments and emotions.

Thanks for all your hard work and timely updates along the way. I was only batting about 50% for the meetings but tried to work a bunch of middle ground angles with "the others". I know for a fact that our noise (the kayakers and spearos) early on saved fishing access at La Jolla Canyon, the half and 3/4 all the way down to the lower NW. I'm still in utter shock and dismay that "norte" is for bait only. At least on days when there's no fog. :the_finger:

nunyabizness1

11-10-2009, 09:40 PM

Huge thanks to all who represented! We have a great group of people here fighting the fight. Thank you for all you have done!

mwm

11-10-2009, 11:01 PM

When the Science Advisory Team presentation started systematically pointing out why all the fishing friendly options were inferior in each area of the coast, the deck was being stacked against us. The BRTF had no intention from the start IMHO to consider leaving LJ unscathed. Even the members of the BRTF that might sympathize with us were looking to compromise and move on. The BRTF knew full well that the majority of the public in that room didn't support the outcome they chose, but there is a big difference between opening the process to the public and following their wishes. When you get appointed officials who do not answer to the public (can get voted out), they have no risk of repercussion if they disregard the majority of the publics wishes. Alas the Packard Foundation :( got their money's worth by buying the MLPA process and our kids and theirs will be cheated out of the joys of fishing great places where they should have access.

Tough as today's outcome was, I also agree it could have been much worse had we not mounted the effort to make our case. Thanks Paul, Chris, Tyler, Joe, and so many others for galvanizing this effort.

Mike

Grego

11-10-2009, 11:27 PM

Well, I'm not fully recovered from this day, but I had a mere 30 minute drive because of traffic to get home. Thanks to all of you that made the 2-4 hour drive up and back in traffic.

LJ and PV kayakers/spearos put the most time and effort in, and we ended up better than most areas. I don't think our efforts were for nothing....I think we would have ended up worse than we are if it hadn't been for our efforts. We did what we could against impossible odds, everything was stacked against us the entire length of this process, but we kept at it.

Paul and MJ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! We would have been so screwed if you didn't jump on our ass to get off our asses. OH, and Chris Fierro (HolyMackeral) I personally thank you also for being one of the first at firing up the boards...I thought you were on crack when you first started posted on every frick'n board!! LOL

If you guys remember when we did the flyers, Baytubers did an internal fundraiser to pay for the printing for our area. We raised over $1,600.00 and had a little leftover reserve after printing, so after the spearos treated us the last time with pizza, we decided it was the kayakers turn to step up and provide the pizza and drinks. Besides a dozen or so Baytubers who donated to the kitty, if you get a chance, please thank Mark & Karen Ezell from Hook1 who donated $200, Xstreamline Kayak Shop $100, and Bob Sands Tackle $100...their donations alone almost paid for all the pizza and drinks today.

zenspearo

11-11-2009, 12:38 AM

Thank you our kayakfishing brothers and sisters.

As bad as it was, if we weren't there together and asking questions and bringing up issues, the maps would have been much, much worse. Kudos to everyone. The alliance between kayakfishermen and spearos will be something that other regions will study for a long time as a model of cooperation and gain in the face of almost impossible odds.

And thank you for the pizza. You guys rock.:you_rock:

P.S. We have the Dec. 9th meeting with DFG coming up. I told Billy V. that I'm re-donating the brand-new, still-in-the-wrapper fishing rod I won (some expensive brand name, I'm told, and I researched the idea of tying rubber bands to it and making it a polespear but gave up after it seems to be too much trouble:p). The fishing rod will be raffled out to kayakfishermen signing up to go to the DFG meeting on Dec. 9th to speak for all of us.

We will ride again. You all did great today. See you Dec. 9th.

herbo

11-11-2009, 12:57 AM

:you_rock:I'm proud of all the spearos, kayak fishers and the others who made it there today,I'm also ashamed that I had committed to be there and my gimp knee gave out(couldn't walk let alone drive there) and special thanks to all who spent endless hours rallying the troops!!!.....H

stuppid

11-11-2009, 06:27 AM

They wont be able to enforce it so just fish all you want. I fish the central coast and I have not heard of anyone getting a ticket from DFG for fishing in a MPA or SMCA. They are not going to be able to enforce it.

Quilted Germ

11-11-2009, 07:25 AM

Thanks to all who attended on the behalf of those of us who didn't. Sounds like a long, emotional day for those who stuck it out. We appreciate the effort. Thanks.

T Bone

11-11-2009, 07:38 AM

Guys,I just want to say thanks to all who fought a great fight.Reminds of Rocky who just said "All I want to do is go 15 rounds with Creed because no one else has" I know your fight was not for nothing.

I have been in the middle of my own battle with my sons cancer that we discovered in July.It has kept me from getting to any of these meetings and only a few sporadic fishing trips this year.My brother is a sportboat captain and is greatly affected by this as we all are.

I THINK EVERYBODY FISHING THE FIRST DAY OF THE CLOSURES IS A FANTASTIC IDEA.IF WE GET FINED SO BE IT.DONT PAY THE FINE VIA MAIL,GO TO COURT IN MASS AND GET THE MEDIA INVOLVED AGAIN SINCE THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHATS GOING ON.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad: