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View Full Version : DFG MEETING ROLL CALL!


Holy Mackerel
12-02-2009, 06:53 AM
This is the official roll call, please attend this important meeting!

Radisson Hotel at Los Angeles Airport
ABC Ballroom*
6225 West Century Blvd.
Los Angeles
Wednesday Dec. 9th. 9-12:30PM.

PUBLIC SPEAKER CARDS WILL BE AVAILABLE AT 9:00 am AND MUST BE TURNED IN TO COMMISSION STAFF BY 10:10 am FOR CONSIDERATION. PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE HEARD FROM APPROXIMATELY 10:15 am TO 12:30 pm

1. Chris
2. Tman
3. Clay
4. Dgax
5. Tyler
6. Matt
7. Steveooo
8. Billy V.
9. Dan
10. Maggie
11. T-Rex
12. Socal Shaggy
13. Zenspearo
14. ?????

FISHIONADO
12-02-2009, 07:15 AM
I'll be out of town but I'm going to persuade several friends who haven't attended in the past to show up. This is _so_ important.

habanero
12-02-2009, 07:30 AM
I'm in! I'm sure I'll be with the other car pool usual suspects?

Holy Mackerel
12-02-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm in! I'm sure I'll be with the other car pool usual suspects?

Thanks Don!

1. Chris
2. Tman
3. Clay
4. Dgax
5. Tyler
6. Matt
7. Steveooo
8. Billy V.
9. Dan
10. Maggie
11. T-Rex
12. Socal Shaggy
13. Zenspearo
14. Don
15. ?????

Iceman
12-02-2009, 09:06 AM
on another list, put me here as well.

Jim Sammons LJKF
12-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Will be there once again, If I am going to be hit by a truck I at least want to see it coming.

rastrev
12-02-2009, 11:09 AM
I'm there for sure. Might as well go down swinging. :viking:

dos ballenas
12-02-2009, 11:15 AM
I'm in... may try to bring a few reinforcements if I can muster up the troops! Be there!

teto116
12-02-2009, 12:59 PM
:toetap05: count me in!

Holy Mackerel
12-02-2009, 01:33 PM
1. Chris
2. Tman
3. Clay
4. Dgax
5. Tyler
6. Matt
7. Steveooo
8. Billy V.
9. Dan
10. Maggie
11. T-Rex
12. Socal Shaggy
13. Zenspearo
14. Don
15. Iceman
16. Jim Sammons LJKF
17. rastrev
18. dos ballenas
19. teto116
20. ?????????

bellcon
12-02-2009, 04:28 PM
In


looking forward to it:banghead:

locolajolla
12-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Please send emails to Sean Hannity/ Rush Limbaugh to bring national exposure to this issue.

Tman
12-02-2009, 06:14 PM
Will be there once again, If I am going to be hit by a truck I at least want to see it coming.

Well put Jim...

joyjiggin'
12-02-2009, 08:00 PM
Eric and I can't make it...will be on honeymoon, sorry! Joy

robmandel
12-03-2009, 10:00 AM
count me in.

after that, next time I see some of you guys it better be on the water :reel::reel::reel:

Holy Mackerel
12-03-2009, 10:18 AM
1. Chris
2. Tman
3. Clay
4. Dgax
5. Tyler
6. Matt
7. Steveooo
8. Billy V.
9. Dan
10. Maggie
11. T-Rex
12. Socal Shaggy
13. Zenspearo
14. Don
15. Iceman
16. Jim Sammons LJKF
17. rastrev
18. dos ballenas
19. teto116
20. Salsipuedas
21. Bellcon
22. robmandel
23. ?????????

PAL
12-03-2009, 08:06 PM
We need more people. Find a way, pick up the phone and pressure your friends, send out a mass email blast. The other side is mobizing. We've owned the room most of the time. We can't give up now; we can't afford the impression that we're beaten or just don't care.

greenscales
12-03-2009, 08:07 PM
I'll make it up there, so long as they don't postpone until past 3PM.

Does anyone have any photos of the college/high schoolers that were bussed in and wearing the shirts at the last event? I tried to take some on my phone, but they did not work out. Specifically the ones in Spanish. Those should be forwarded to the local radio hosts that get pissed regarding the immigration issues. This might wake them up. Also in light of the recent UC student protests, these same radio hosts and reporters might find some irony that the same silver spooned kids who were whining about the cost of tuition to go to school in Santa Barbara or Westwood could find funds to fund themselves to support the MLPAs last month. A bunch of hypocrites.

Of course the real reason they want us to stop fishing is to prevent Sea Lion Obesity. If they got rid of us, the fur bags would have start working to find food.

nunyabizness1
12-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Hey guys,

I am very sorry that I can not attend this meeting. I have a committment at work that morning that I can't get out of. I am working hard to get the word out for people to attend this meeting on the BD site and have sent emails to the DFG commission and others with my comments. I HATE to miss this one but have no choice!

fgc@fgc.ca.gov <<<--- this is the email for the Fish and Game Commission if anyone wants to send comments via email

Tman
12-03-2009, 09:21 PM
Funny, a certain someone who is very invloved in the process spoke to the bussed in kids and offered them free 1/2 day fishing passes, and they got all excited.

Until the teacher came into the fray...

It is his tale to tell, does not belong to this board as far as I know, but it was a sight to see...

Iceman
12-04-2009, 04:14 AM
bump, latest press release

Fish and Game Commission to Receive Proposals for
Marine Protected Areas on California’s South Coast
SACRAMENTO – The Fish and Game Commission (Commission) announced that it will hold a
joint session with the Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA) Blue Ribbon Task Force (BRTF) on
Dec. 9 at the Radisson Hotel at the Los Angeles Airport.
Over the past 18 months, the BRTF has been working with the Regional Stakeholder Group
(RSG), Science Advisory Team (SAT), and the public to develop proposals for Marine Protected
Areas (MPAs) between Point Conception and the California/Mexico border. The five proposal
packages are available on the MLPA Web site http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/southcoastipa.asp.
At the Dec. 9 meeting, the Commission will receive public testimony from approximately 10:15
a.m. to 12:30 p.m. Those wishing to speak at this meeting must submit a speaker card which
will be available at the meeting location beginning at 9 a.m. Cards must be submitted prior to
10:10 a.m. The total time allotted per speaker will be based on the number of speaker cards
received. Speakers with a shared message or from the same organization are encouraged to
combine speaking points. Additional time for comment will be given to these ‘spokespeople’ and
those who have ceded their time can stand to show support.
Following public testimony, the Commission will receive presentations from the BRTF, SAT,
RSG, the Department of Fish and Game (DFG) and the Department of Parks and Recreation.
At this meeting, the Commission is expected to provide guidance to its staff concerning
preparation of the regulatory and California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) documents.
No decisions will be made on the merits of any of the proposals at this meeting. Pursuant to
CEQA and the Administrative Procedure Act, the Commission will not adopt any regulations for
MPAs in the south coast at this meeting.
Vice President Richard Rogers, who will be chairman at this meeting, stated, “The Commission
may need to take additional time to consider all the information it has already received and
information it will receive at the meeting in order to make an informed decision on its preferred
alternative.”
Following the Dec. 9 meeting, staff will initiate the development of the appropriate CEQA and
regulatory documents. Preparation of these documents is expected to take several months.
After the documents are prepared, the CEQA document will be available for public review and
comment and the Commission will formally publish notice of its intent to adopt the regulations.
The Commission will hold a minimum of two additional meetings to receive public testimony on
the CEQA document and the proposed MPA regulations.

sanpicuda
12-04-2009, 04:59 AM
I'll be there. Hopefully the FGC will do the right thing. Both of my State Legislators support WG2's proposal, Senator Hollingsworth & Assemblyman Anderson.

Socalrobt
12-04-2009, 03:14 PM
I am new to this forum and I am going to attend the meeting on December 12 2009.

Thank You

Robbie

Adam12
12-04-2009, 05:08 PM
I'll be there.

CurtyL
12-04-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm done with the stacked deck. I'll let my actions speak on the water. I'm out for now. I'll see you guys on the other side.

FISHIONADO
12-05-2009, 07:03 AM
I'm still bummed I'll be out of town and can't attend. I've tried hard to influence friends and co-workers to attend but no luck so far. I'm beginning to believe that most fisherman are spineless slugs who just like to drink beer on the water. Except for this group of kayakers and spearos that have made a difference so far, the rest deserve what they get.

tylerdurden
12-06-2009, 02:16 PM
bump...

Tman
12-06-2009, 05:13 PM
I'm still bummed I'll be out of town and can't attend.

Me too...so much for Anchor Steam and Root Beer...

I've tried hard to influence friends and co-workers to attend but no luck so far. I'm beginning to believe that most fisherman are spineless slugs who just like to drink beer on the water. Hey now...my back hurts and I'm thirsty...
Except for this group of kayakers and spearos that have made a difference so far, the rest deserve what they get.

Again, for the umpteenth time, presence is what we need...I will feel safe knowing that in a year or two, I did all I could to make a difference...
will YOU be able to say that?

A couple of my cherished areas, here in So Cal, and in Mendocino, are slated to be chopped...we will not quit. I want my future to be fishing and diving with my son. And although it is home of the one in the grey suit, I can't wait for my son to pry his first snail...if it is to be still open...

Oolie
12-06-2009, 06:10 PM
this is something i would gladly show up to if i could.

do justice by both sides guys.
but keep la jolla open

Tman
12-06-2009, 06:36 PM
Just so it is known, I was not dogging Fishionado...Dave knows that.

Nor was I dogging anyone else...just trying to motivate.

A big area of ours in North County is on the board to get sliced, along with parts of LJ. Parts of LJ that I grew up diving, surfing, and playing in...I never thought that I would not be able to share those beauties with my son, until now.

It is a wake up call for me.

If you don't think this process will affect you, think again. It is designed to do just that.

FISHIONADO
12-06-2009, 06:49 PM
Just so it is known, I was not dogging Fishionado...Dave knows that.

No worries, I'll be good for those beers as soon as I get home from biz travel next week. :)

Thanks to everyone who will attend on Wednesday. This is our "Alamo".

DESTROYER
12-06-2009, 08:36 PM
Sorry but I can't make this meeting:(.

I'm a chef and this is the busiest time of the year for me.

Kayak Nation represent!

Moyer

Caballito
12-07-2009, 08:11 AM
Hi Everyone,
I am a Kayaker and a Waterfowl hunter. The following attached film was made by California Waterfowl Association and addresses some of the same isuues we are confronting from people who oppose what we do. Thought it might be of interest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhcabnNjd1I

Cheers,
Brian

Holy Mackerel
12-08-2009, 06:48 AM
bump

tattuna
12-08-2009, 10:47 AM
In!

rastrev
12-08-2009, 02:36 PM
BUMP!

Last chance to preserve your favorite fishing grounds.

Matt
12-08-2009, 03:41 PM
BUMP.......

So I am taking Clay and Tman and have room for one more if someone can't afford the gas or just doesn't wanna make the drive, gas is taken care of, so if you have the day off, what's your excuse now!?!

Room for 1 more, I am in La Mesa and will be heading on up to Leucadia to pick the fellas up so if you need a lift let me know!:cheers1:

TCS
12-08-2009, 06:23 PM
Was planning on attending but have been invited to a job interview. At least I did make it to one of these...

Sincere thanks to all of you who are going.

Tom

Billy V
12-08-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm sick with the flu and went to Scripps today. I'm sick as a dog with fever, cough, chills and more.

Have a blood pressure of 164 over 109, the doctor wanted to admit me tonight but I fought it.
---------------
I plea bargained down to a script of Azithromycin, and a DO NOT DRIVE DUI cough medicine of Promethazine-Codeine and had to promised him I would return back there tomorrow for further BP evaluation.
----------------------
Tomorrow I will break a promise to someone, but its not going to be you assholes.

-I have someone who is driving me so I can hit the codeine all the way to L.A.
see you fks there tomorrow.

Iceman
12-08-2009, 07:14 PM
Billy maybe you should sit on the other side.........and cough alot.:biggrinjester:

bellcon
12-08-2009, 07:26 PM
Billy maybe you should sit on the other side.........and cough alot.:biggrinjester:

Thats what I was thinking
cough a lot!!


Seriously Billy,
you should stay home
those are not good symptoms...:eek:

I don't know if your just crazy dedicated or just crazy stupid
but who ever is giving you the ride is crazy Brave!

cheers to both of you:cheers1:

Billy V
12-09-2009, 04:54 AM
Germ warfare. I'll mingle and shake hands with our friends.:)

Just took the BP it was 130/85. The Dr. said the Nitequil could have been the reason for the spike. I had been taking it for a few days prior to seeing him.

see you there

FISHIONADO
12-09-2009, 04:34 PM
I'm sitting in a biz meeting in China wondering how it went today. Thanks to all those that represented!

Holy Mackerel
12-09-2009, 04:37 PM
If Billy V can come up on his death bed, and give a ceded time, ie 3 mins, presentation, then more kayakers need to step up, and show up. Thank you Billy! :you_rock:

There will likely be 3 more public comment meetings with the DFG commision, and possibly the final decision December 2010. They are more friendly than BRTF. There were more fishermen today, but we need to keep up the pressure, and our presence.

In case you missed it... :)


F&G Commissioner Dan Richards is my new hero!

He's insisting on line item BRTF budget details, asking about meetings out of compliance with the Brown Act, and how the IPA could have been created over a couple hours. He seems skeptical about funding, conflicts of interests etc.

Meg Caldwell and other BRTF members are dancing around but he's not buying much of it.


Good seeing my kayak friends today! Even Clay the Fish catcher questioned the BRTF closed door meetings! :notworthy:

so cal shaggy
12-09-2009, 05:48 PM
They are more friendly than BRTF. There were more fishermen today, but we need to keep up the pressure, and our presence.

In case you missed it... :)



Good seeing my kayak friends today! Even Clay the Fish catcher questioned the BRTF closed door meetings! :notworthy:
I do not know if the F&G commission is friendlier but they are about the business at hand and how the decisions made by the BRTF are going to affect them. I am sorry I could not stay longer These meeting take a lot out of me mentally and I am pretty burned out plus I had to get Erika home for her class. Even on the drive home Erika was asking me some questions as to some of the people that approached me and I had to tell her that I was completely zoned out during the meeting and I pretty much turn into a robot and do not remember much about what happened during the day.

dos ballenas
12-09-2009, 06:50 PM
today was only the second time I could make it to one of these thingys and it was actually pretty cool, but the thing that stuck out to me was when I was talking to a blue ribbon supporter and they said,
" ...there are hardly any kayak fishermen out there anyways so who cares.""

I was shocked none the less, but looking around, it did seem true. If everyone could commit to one of these meeting I think it would really make a huge difference. If there had been 1000 kayakers there today instead of 100 it would have been a major impact. Hell, if there had been over 1000 sport fishermen it could have been a pretty powerful room.

I am def going to the next ones... its something you shouldn't miss, even just go sit there, you'll learn something. thanks for everyone who got a chance to speak... :cheers1:

Matt
12-09-2009, 07:08 PM
Just got back....and couldn't stick it out any longer, but it does seem if the dfg are questioning ALOT of what my pal Meg has done.....so I am pessimistically optimistic....we definitely outnumbered the Jihadist enviros today and there is some more positives coming soon for LJ(possibly)....stay tuned they have not won this fight yet!!!!!!

Thanks to all that attended.....Grego even had a life size cut out of his one and only halibut that he has ever caught and for a minimal fee he would let you take a picture next to him and his fish!!!:sifone:

emrliquidlife
12-09-2009, 07:10 PM
Who won the rod?

Ed

Matt
12-09-2009, 07:16 PM
Steve "Greenie" Greene a.k.a Landwhale won the rod!!!!

Big thanks to Tommy Gomes for taking care of making sure Steve get's it!!

And to the DORKS who tried putting in like 20 tickets instead of one:canabis:
NICE TRY!!!!

Big thanks have to go to Billy V sick as a dog and still campaigning for your rights to FISH!!

And thanks to Erika for helping out with the collection of tix for the raffle!!

dgax65
12-09-2009, 07:19 PM
I was shocked none the less, but looking around, it did seem true. If everyone could commit to one of these meeting I think it would really make a huge difference. If there had been 1000 kayakers there today instead of 100 it would have been a major impact. Hell, if there had been over 1000 sport fishermen it could have been a pretty powerful room.

I am def going to the next ones... its something you shouldn't miss, even just go sit there, you'll learn something. thanks for everyone who got a chance to speak...



Unfortunately, it is a little bit too late for that revelation. We could have used the 1000 kayak anglers early in the process when it might have made a difference. Coming to the LAST meeting and saying, "Gee, more fishermen should come to these things" doesn't do us much good now. We needed that at every step throughout this process.
Glad you could make it to the meeting. At least you can tell your kids how a mix of corrupt politics and indifference resulted in permanent closures of our most productive fishing grounds.

Tman
12-09-2009, 07:48 PM
Good seeing those who showed up. we definitely had some good speaking going on...young Otto was there again, speaking of the importance of Father/Son bonding (fishing).:you_rock:


Good seeing my kayak friends today! Even Clay the Fish catcher questioned the BRTF closed door meetings! :notworthy:

That was the first time they actually addressed him as Fishcatcher and asked him if he liked to fish. Good seeing that for a change, although it seemed every laguna lady looked at him as they walked by, then evil eyed me...:the_finger:

And Billy V, keep on those meds...you actually seemed calm up there for a change...

The 'process' made the front page of todays' Union Trib, seems the Head DFG'er is not too happy...who can blame him, puts more of a burden on them.

tylerdurden
12-09-2009, 07:56 PM
Thanks to everyone that attended today. It isn't over yet. I hear we have a couple more chances to comment and work on the DFG commission.

Grego
12-09-2009, 07:59 PM
Thanks to all that attended.....Grego even had a life size cut out of his one and only halibut that he has ever caught and for a minimal fee he would let you take a picture next to him and his fish!!!:sifone:

You're welcome everyone...Kurt, don't worry someone took for you, so you'll get it soon. And sorry Matt, it was only one photo per person, I didn't have space on my camera card for you to take multiple poses, especially after you tried to cut in line!!!!

Thanks to everyone from down here who made the drive up....I think we'll all be in a similar position for the next meeting!!! Sacramento anyone?

Matt
12-09-2009, 08:01 PM
As far as people showing up......it's imperative that everyone who can show up does show up, if only to allocate speaking time (we had a tougher time than you might think getting Billy enough time)

So please show up each and every meeting that you can, the show of numbers definitely still plays an important part!

bellcon
12-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Decent turnout,
We will always will be lacking the numbers we should have I guess...

But you gotta be some what proud of what us Kayak Anglers (and spearos!) have done
even if we need better surf skills and their are so few of us,
(anyone ever figure out who that dick was?)



T man good talking with you
and Clay The Fish Catcher:you_rock:

you too Otto:you_rock:



Oh and Matt
your on my list now

Tman
12-09-2009, 09:41 PM
...even if we need better surf skills and their are so few of us,
(anyone ever figure out who that dick was?)


yup...http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/showthread.php?t=6400

so cal shaggy
12-09-2009, 09:53 PM
(anyone ever figure out who that dick was?)
His name is Scott Dunn and anti fishing kayak guide(?) from the Malibu area. He is very arrogant and thinks (like many of the anti fishing people) that their POV is the only view and that we should adopt their ideas and mindset.

Billy V
12-09-2009, 11:27 PM
We have to follow through with DFG to the end. They are just getting to know us, and we made some strong point before them today.

This game is far from over, and we can turn the tide if we are diligent.
SouthWest Airlines has Cheap Air Fares in Cali, and I intend on flying them when possible.

As you may have seen today ceded time requires that you accumulate 15 speaker cards in addition to your own for a 3 minute presentation, so attendance is going to play a crucial role at future meetings.

Thank You to everyone who participated today, and thanks to the people who gave me your valuable speaking time so I could send our unified message from the kayak fishing and spear fishing communities at today's meeting.

zenspearo
12-09-2009, 11:49 PM
Kudos to those who made it. I got hammered with an emergency at work AS I WAS DRIVING UP with a long-standing client...had to do quick fixes all day in a parking lot (thank god for laptop, verizon tethered modem and cell phone) and saved the account.

I guess work finally caught up with me...

Again, thanks to all who spoke up.

.

PAL
12-10-2009, 06:54 AM
Commissioner Richards' remarks start at the 4:35:46 mark of the meeting archive, available here: http://www.cal-span.org/cgi-bin/media.pl?folder=CFG

I'm still reviewing it for the first time. I attended through 11:40 but had to head home to San Diego for a family matter, but I wasn't worried in the least. I knew the kayak fishing community was well covered by those who made the sacrifice to attend. You guys are the best. Huge props to Billy for playing hurt and still hitting one out of the park. Gibsonesque.

dos ballenas
12-10-2009, 07:25 AM
Unfortunately, it is a little bit too late for that revelation. We could have used the 1000 kayak anglers early in the process when it might have made a difference. Coming to the LAST meeting and saying, "Gee, more fishermen should come to these things" doesn't do us much good now. We needed that at every step throughout this process.
Glad you could make it to the meeting. At least you can tell your kids how a mix of corrupt politics and indifference resulted in permanent closures of our most productive fishing grounds.

you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

dgax65
12-10-2009, 07:36 AM
This game is far from over, and we can turn the tide if we are diligent.
SouthWest Airlines has Cheap Air Fares in Cali, and I intend on flying them when possible.

As you may have seen today ceded time requires that you accumulate 15 speaker cards in addition to your own for a 3 minute presentation, so attendance is going to play a crucial role at future meetings.


When they revisit this issue at later meetings, we might not be guaranteed a large turnout. We can hardly expect a large number of SoCal kayak fishermen to fly up to Sacramento. I think we need to work on developing clear, concise one minute presentations. We should use each available speaker to hit a specific point that we need to get across to the commission. I know that it feels good to get up there and give 'em hell, but we would be better served by using individuals to address specific aspects of our message.

I don't know about all of you, but I'm getting ready for some road trips. Follow the link for Fish and Game Commission 2010 meeting schedule.

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2010/2010mtgs.asp

Most of the 2010 meetings are in central California. Keep checking that page to see when the meeting agendas are posted. You'll probably be notified as well if you're on the MLPA email list.

FISHIONADO
12-10-2009, 07:36 AM
you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

Doug's a good guy and deserves to be frustrated at the entire process, I saw that guy at nearly every meeting I attended and I know he drove up for some I couldn't attend. But you are right, let's continue to represent with the biggest number of folks possible. We can be proud of what we have done so far and there are still opportunities for success.

Matt
12-10-2009, 07:39 AM
I 100 percent agree with Dos Ballenas! Please keep the attendance up! And if yesterday was your first meeting that you could make THANK YOU!

I spoke to a gentleman named Marcus who is a PB'er who mainly fishes in Mex, but is still willing to show up and fight for kayak fisherman's rights and said he would attend as many meetings as he could! Now you gotta applaud that and many others just like him, so get involved and let's save LJ!

Matt
12-10-2009, 07:48 AM
I know more than a few of the LA guys are gonna be driving alot as will I and Billy V and i'm sure a few others! Please everyone make all the meetings that you can the DFG commission seems to be far more on our side than I ever expected!

And I agree with Dgax on the point of we should have multiple speakers who can get across specific points in a one minute speech that clearly emphasizes one or two specific points as we will not always be able to cede our times to assure ourselves of a 3minute time slot.

Roadtrip anyone?

dgax65
12-10-2009, 07:55 AM
you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

You are right; this wasn't the last meeting. The last meeting was back on November 10th. The MLPA meetings were the venue for input on this process. This is just trying to get the Fish and Game Commission to do what it hasn't done in the two previous rounds; reverse the BRTF recommendations. I don't mean to undermine our side. I am just pointing out the fact that greater participation during the actual process might have been more effective than trying to get the F&G Commission to reverse the BRTF's decision. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at their past performance and trying to predict what is going to happen. Either way, it isn't going to stop me from attending the meetings. I never expected an outcome other than what we are stuck with right now. That didn't stop me from attending the meetings and speaking my mind. I don't mind tilting at windmills and I will fight for something I believe in, even if the odds appear insurmountable. To do otherwise would be, as you say, WEAK

Matt
12-10-2009, 08:17 AM
Well in fact the brtf meetings were one hundred percent a rigged affair with Meg and her bought and paid for cronies shutting us down left and right. However no matter what there was always gonna be another MPA established in La Jolla, this was inevitable regardless no matter what we did. However the important thing to remember is that a group of proposals that have in fact been sent to the dfg commission can in fact be amended by the commission to say allow for not just coastal pelagic (bait) take north of the pier but also amend the current map 2 to allow for pelagic (yt, wsb, halibut, T's) take as well. Another amendment that they could make is for not extending the current preserve beyond what it is currently.

I am not saying any of this to bash anyones ideas or opinions, only to clearly stress to you all that it is of the utter most importance that we continue to keep up our pressure and presence at all of these dfg meetings. The Commisioner is now heavily questioning the BRTF and the maps and the science and methods that they used in the making of
the maps, and this is a very good thing for anyone that fishes! So please don't start to rest and slack off, now is when we need to push even harder. There is a very good chance that in the end we may walk out with much more fishing areas open then we ever could have ever agined possible!

So let's keep up the strong and united front!

landwhale
12-10-2009, 08:52 AM
With the exception of a few meetings when I was to ill to attend I went to every one of them. The first meeting I attended was an information meeting before the RSG was chosen and then on to the first meetings as the RSG and their practice map making. Now not to bore you with the rest of the details I can tell you that we have made a huge difference. I will continue to attend all the meetings for the simple reason that it is what we need to do FINNISH WHAT WE STARTED with our heads held high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robmandel
12-10-2009, 09:06 AM
great seeing everyone yesterday again. think we did a great job again. as always !!

I had to bug out early so I missed the questions about the conflicts of interest from Richards. but glad I got to show how important safety is for kayakers.

would our earlier involvement been more helpful?

I am of two schools of thought, and please I mean no offense to anyone.

one, not in the slightest. I've looked into the connections and conflicts and believe entirely the "public" part of the process was a sham and that the outcome was preordained, bought and paid for. more will come out in the weeks and months ahead. and it's ugly for sure. the earlier maps which basically closed everything were done that way on purpose. that way, the still egregious closures appear to be more moderate, more compromise, etc. so, this was the plan all along, and the goal was how to get there. you never start negotiations with your bottom line, you always start asking for the world, that way you have something to "give". we were fucked from the beginning.

two, somewhat. LJ got spared devastating closures that we got in malibu. SD guys always had great turnout and we malibu guys kinda dropped the ball, or that there simply weren't as many of us, whatever. laguna too. now, as for the PV areas...well, that's another story!!

so, maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

either way, we fight from here.
:boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::viki ng::viking::viking::boxing::boxing::boxing:

shortstack
12-10-2009, 09:13 AM
I moved here from Michigan almost two years ago, I can't understand how anyone can see the MLPA is going to help!! I've herd both sides of the story, It makes no sense!!!!!! 30 years ago Lake Erie was so polluted that it actually caught on fire!! You couldn't eat the fish, and the fishery was almost non existent. This was the story with many lakes in MI and WI, The enviros and DFG or DNR all got together and found ways to improve the system, Not closing down fishing areas!!! Michigan today has some of the nations best fishing and hunting. Why are we letting the state gov rape the DFG of their role in Habitat recovery!!! Why are we letting the State rape the DFG of funds and JOBS!!!!!!! It all makes no sense to me when you see other states with successful Natural resource programs. The MLPA makes no sense!!!!<O:p</O:p

dgax65
12-10-2009, 10:28 AM
I have to agree with Rob. To some degree, the outcome was preordained. The law is faulty, so it stands to reason that the process resulting from the law would be flawed. This is what happens when politics takes the place of sound fisheries or wildlife management. The law starts with the position that consumptive users are responsible for the all the ills of the ocean and that only by closing off large areas can this damage be repaired. Fishing didn't cause all the ocean's problems. There are other factors affecting this equation. And, certainly, recreational fishing does not have the same impact as commercial fishing. Even within the broad range of commercial fishing there are varying levels of environmental impact. Repairing the environmental damage would require a very difficult, expensive and multifaceted approach. That's too much heavy lifting for our timid and corrupt legislators. You can't expect them to take actions that might impact their fund raising sources. Instead, we got a law that targets only fishermen, a disparate community that can easily vilified. The environmentalists who pushed this law through the legislature already view all consumptive ocean users as criminals, guilty of crimes against nature. Targeting the consumptive users was easy and effective. The legislators can claim to have taken action on the issue and they don't have to worry about going up against a monolithic political force with lots of resources. So they get a political victory and we get more limits on personal freedom.

We started this process with a guarantee of getting screwed. We knew from the start that we were going to lose some of our best fishing grounds. The very process was rigged against us by the MLPA. All we could do was to try and limit the damage. Seeing what happened on the Central Coast should have been a serious wakeup call. Unfortunately, not enough people got involved. Would it have mattered? I don't know. We have been fighting this battle with facts, science, a gut-level understanding of the potential economic impact and knowledge borne of centuries of combined on-the-water experience. We faced an opponent so convinced of their moral superiority that they felt comfortable disregarding facts, making up rules on the fly, limiting public input and making secret deals to achieve their goals. We were never on a level playing field. No amount of factual data and impassioned pleas would entirely overcome the bad law and its corrupt implementation. All we could hope for is to create enough public outcry to win some small victories. It worked, to a degree, with Rocky Point. How much more could have been achieved with greater involvement of the fishing community will never be known, but we do know that we had some positive impact. Had we not been involved, we would have ended up with half the coast closed off with SMR's.

Thanks to Paul, Tyler, Billy, Chris, Greg and the dozens of others who put so much time and effort into this fight. Without them we would have been completely screwed.

I hope nobody misconstrues my comments as defeatism. I don't want my comments to keep people from being involved. Quite the opposite. I want people to know what we are up against. This isn't the only attack on our freedom and way of life. This is just one battle in a long-running war. There are hundreds of 'environmental' organizations out there; supported by government and private grants, staffed by full-time professional political activists and able to mobilize large numbers of sympathetic supporters (bussed in school kids and the like). We will always be at a disadvantage. That is why we must be more involved. We need to fight these threats. We must get involved early and often if we are to have any hope of turning back the tide. If there is anything to learn from the MLPA process is that we must be vigilant for new threats and we must respond quickly and forcefully; even if the odds are against us.

When I went to that first meeting in Old Town, I was pretty sure that we were going to get screwed by the MLPA process. That didn't stop me from getting involved. When we were making our pleas to limit the economic, safety and cultural impact of closures and Meg was busy chatting on her phone, I knew that the process was just a sham.....but that didn't stop me or many others from speaking our mind. We have to stay involved. Eventually we will turn the tide and our message will take hold. That won't happen if we give up.

dos ballenas
12-10-2009, 04:29 PM
You are right; this wasn't the last meeting. The last meeting was back on November 10th. The MLPA meetings were the venue for input on this process. This is just trying to get the Fish and Game Commission to do what it hasn't done in the two previous rounds; reverse the BRTF recommendations. I don't mean to undermine our side. I am just pointing out the fact that greater participation during the actual process might have been more effective than trying to get the F&G Commission to reverse the BRTF's decision. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at their past performance and trying to predict what is going to happen. Either way, it isn't going to stop me from attending the meetings. I never expected an outcome other than what we are stuck with right now. That didn't stop me from attending the meetings and speaking my mind. I don't mind tilting at windmills and I will fight for something I believe in, even if the odds appear insurmountable. To do otherwise would be, as you say, WEAK

I didn't mean to rattle ya buddy, my bad. But just because the DFG accepted the maps the BRTF put forward last coupla times doesn't mean it will be the same this time... especially given the recent allocations put forth to the BRFT.

That said, I feel these final meetings may be the most important meetings of all. Everything before now was simply smoke being blown up your bass. The DFG has the final say. Send those emails. Tell your friends to send emails. Tell them to tell their friends to send emails. The enviros sure as hell are sending them.

The fight is far from over. Dissention among the ranks and old news is bad for buisness. Its gonna be at least 1 year before we get any decision imo. Concentrate on the next meeting.