Permanent Wet Transducer Installation

[dsafety]

Today's project was to come up with a way to permanently install a new Fish Finder Transducer using the wet method. I would like to take credit for this idea but truth be told, I found a post from a guy in Australia who came up with this idea a year or two ago. I have modified the original installation a bit.

You will need a 3" piece of drain pipe or a 3" adapter, some sort of cap that will screw or clamp to the top of the adapter, some goop, a few stainless screws and a fish finder with transducer. I used a rubber cap a threaded 3" adapter. You could also use a threaded cap but I thought the rubber cap would provide a better water seal.

The first step is to attach the "well" to the hull of the kayak. I shaved the bottom of the adapter a bit to make it fit the contour of the hull and gooped it to the plastic making sure there would be no leaks once the well was filled with water.

1794

Next came mounting the transducer to the cap. I sliced an X in the rubber that would expand large enough to allow the transducer plug to fit through. You could also drill a hole but that would mean a larger waterproof patch later. In the middle of the X I drilled a hole large enough for the cable to slide through without distorting the rubber.

Using the transom mount that came with the transducer, I attached the transducer to the inside of the cap making sure that everything would fit inside the well when the cap was installed. I marked the top of the cap to show the direction the front of the transducer was pointing and gooped the area where the cable passed through to make it water tight.

1795

After the goop cured, I filled the well with water, slid the cap with transducer over the top and tightened the hose clamp. The completed installation is below.

1796

If all goes according to plan, I should be able to fill the well with water once and forget about it. No more constantly checking the foam ring to make sure the water has not spilled, dried up or drained away. Since I store and transport my kayak upside down It is very important that this thing does not leak. We will see.

I have not yet tested this installation on the water but hope to go to La Jolla on New Years Day. If you see me out there, please feel free to paddle on over and check this installation out.

I have a couple concerns beyond whether this thing will remain water tight. Will the fact that there is about an inch of water between the transducer and the hull have any effect? Since the temperature sensor is inside the well, it will probably not give a very accurate reading. The water in the well will have to stabilize with the ocean water. That could take some time. It will almost certainly not be able to detect subtle changes in the water temperature as I peddle from one place to another. All things considered, this is not a very big deal.

See you out there.

Bob

[nabeeko]

Bob, you're Genius!

Just what I needed to replace the existing styro-well.
Now I have to find the bracket that came with the transducer.

How did you grind down the pvc to fit the curves?

[bentrod1]

So you keep the transducer itself clean of goop, glue, silicone etc. and if you have to drain it you can do so with a hand held manual bilge pump. The transducer does not come in contact with the hull. Are these assumptions correct?

Great job Bob. This will work perfect for those of us that have portables. Just unscrew the cap and your golden. Clean work and nice pictures too.

Thank you!

[dsafety]

Nabeeko, I used a hand planer to shave the edges of the well but you could use just about anything. The contouring does not have to be exact because Goop is a very forgiving sealant.

Bentrod, all your assumptions are correct. One of the reasons I installed the transducer in the cap rather than to the well as our Aussie friend did was to allow for portability. For about $4 you could install a well in another kayak and you could move the FF around as needed.

I think that this is a good design but a better design could come from the kayak manufacturers themselves. Imagine a recessed area in the bottom of kayak with a hollow tube running through the hull to the deck, exiting some place that would be appropriate to mount a fish finder. Hobie could do it below the sail mast tube. The plastic in this area could be beefed up to allow mounting screws that would not puncture the hull. They could even design a cover plate that fit over this recessed area to make the bottom of the kayak smooth.

Now that would be cool.

Bob

P.S. I filled the well with water, tightened everything down and turned the kayak upside down so it could be strapped it to the roof if my truck getting ready for tomorrow's fishing trip. I checked for leaks after a couple of hours. Nada.

Now lets hope the thing will put me on some fish.

Bob

[dmrides]

Bob, that looks super cool. I just got a fish finder recently and have been thinking about many different ways to install the transducer, and this tops them all. Thanks for the inspiration. Can't wait to hear how it works. Do you think it will still give accurate temperature readings?

[Iceman]

The bottom of the hull eventually equals the temp of the water outside. The hull reads the air temp when you launch but 10-15 minutes on the water and mine is getting comparable readings to transducer in the water. It is more gradual, but not like we are looking for temp breaks. This is a great set up, been tying to figure a way to seal my wet mount.

[dsafety]

Just got back from the maiden voyage with this setup. It worked perfectly. More later.

Bob

[yakrider]

Just got back from the maiden voyage with this setup. It worked perfectly. More later.

Bob

could you hear the pinging of the tx?
mine is loud as sh*t...

[dsafety]

As I mentioned before, this setup worked perfectly. I could not hear anything from the sonar. In fact, I have not heard that this is a problem with any sonars in this class. Yakrider, you must have really good hearing.

There were no leaks from the well and my images were excellent. The fish finder is a new one with higher resolution than my previous unit so I cannot tell you if the improved images are a result of the better FF or the transducer setup.

As expected, the temperature readings were a little misleading for a while. I had the kayak on the top of my truck overnight where the outside temperature got down to the low 40s. When I started to peddle out, the FF said the temperature was 44 degrees. I knew that was wrong as I passed a group of swimmers heading out from the Cove. It took about an hour for the water in the well to warm to the temperature of the ocean. If having accurate temperature readings is important to you, this type of installation my not be the best choice.

If portability and ease of installation are what you are looking for, this is definitely the way to go. Now that I know what to do, I could probably reproduce this installation in about ten minutes.

Bob

[crabkracker]

Great idea! My wet well install has worked perfectly for over a year, but this is much better! No more filling it with water or forgetting to... Thanks for sharing!

[cappo]

Thats a neat setup. I was thinking of changin to a wet install. This will help alot.
Thanks.

[bentrod1]

I just read some guy used plumbers putty and stuck it inside the hull without a reservoir...

Does it have to be wet? Is there a sensor further up on the transducer that has to detect water? If you seal the transducer (I know you didn't Bob) with putty, glue etc. to the hull then water wouldn't touch the bottom of the transducer anyway...

[dsafety]

Plumbers putty would be too weak of a sealant. Goop is much better. It will withstand anything you throw at it.

With my setup, the transducer is suspended in water above the hull. You have to have some solid or liquid connection between the transducer and the ocean. If there is an air gap, the thing will not work.

Bob

[peguinpower]

Brilliant! Great job!

Ive heard that Surgilube makes for a great medium and has anti-bacterial stuff that prevents algae and mold build up. Its the same stuff they use on ultrasounds. At 2 bucks for 4oz at your local pharmacy, seems like a good deal.

If you drill in an injection port, later sealed with a screw, you can fill up that reservoir real good.

/bing

[dsafety]

Wahoo, in my installation, the transducer was suspended about an inch above the hull. I am not sure if it makes any difference whether there is contact with the hull or not. All I can say is that what I did seems to work fine.

As for installing near the transom, that would probably be fine except that your FF will be showing you stuff you have already passed over rather than what you are just about to reach. With inexpensive FF like the one I use, it probably does not make much difference as the resolution is not good enough to see much more than the bottom contour and to find bait balls.

Someone with experience using a high-end fish finder could probably be more helpful than I on this subject.

Bob

[WahooUSMA]

Bob,

Great idea, and I am going to re-install my transducer with your method this weekend..Quick question (now that I have read the whole thread). How much space between the hull and the transducer do require? That will determine I guess, the length of PVC needed??? Also, why not mount this at the rear of the yak as they do in boats. The Revo has an access hatch that would make the install easy...I think?

Roger

[dsafety]

I am not sure if mounting the FF in the stern will effect the performance in a significant way but if you have a Revo, there may be a good reason to mount there. The space in rear hatch on the Revo is not easily accessible while on the water and therefore the real estate is less valuable, at least to me. Having the transducer mounted there would save some storage space up front.

I store my FF battery in the otherwise mostly useless tray that came with my Revo. The stern is usually dryer than the bow and therefore probably a good place for electrical stuff to live.

Give it a try.

Bob

1811

[shortstack]

That's some sick shit!!:D

[dgax65]

Very nice work, Bob. I never seriously considered using a wet mount until seeing this. I always thought they were more trouble than they were worth. This has changed my mind. I'm getting a new Stealth in a couple of weeks and I'm going to use your idea.

[THE CALI HOOKUP!]

what are the benifits of haveing a wet mount transducer also what are the draw backs.

[dsafety]

Cali,

Others might be able to answer this question better than I but the main reason I went this route was that when I pulled up my old transducer I found that the goop that had attached it to the hull was full of bubbles. I was never very happy with the performance of my previous FF and have been told that it is important that no bubbles form in the goop as they are likely to cause poor performance.

I have also learned that the most efficient transmitter of sonar signals is water and that for best performance a transducer should be mounted in the water. For some strange reason the hull of a boat does not seem to cause any transmission problems so mounting the transducer in a pool of water inside the hull works very well. This is probably because the density of the hull is fairly close to the density of water.

Anyway, many of the guys who really know what they are doing have gone to the "wet mount" over goop. The problem with the installation method that most have employed up to now is that with the foam version of the wet mount, the water can leak away causing the transducer to perform poorly. I have seen guys on the water having to open their hatch from time to time to add water to the foam well. I wanted to avoid having to worry about this.

My version solves the leakage problem as the whole unit is sealed so the water cannot leak or evaporate. As a bonus, since the transducer is mounted in the rubber cap, it is easily portable to another location making it possible for one FF to be used on multiple boats.

Give it a try. The installation is easy and the materials cost only a few dollars.

Bob

[T-Rex]

Looks like a great setup! I've always preferred my wet mount over goop, but filling up the reservoir (or as crabkracker said, forgetting to) is a pain. I haven't had any leaks, but I noticed after about 2 years the pool noodle foam is degrading a little bit and the transducer slips out when I'm driving with the yak upside down. This setup should fix both those problems. This install is going to be my project for tomorrow! Thanks for the info!

[WahooUSMA]

Bob,

I just finished my install of the wet transducer (copied yours). Unfortunately, with the Lowrance transducer, you need to use the ABS 4in male adapter vs. 3in adapter. This sucks because one; its quiet a bit larger, and secondly, the 3 in. cap is flexible while the 4in cap is rigid...(sounds kind of West Hollywood-ish).

My only issue is going to be removing the cap to check for water levels. I am afraid I might eventually separate the ABS adapter from the hull since the cap is so rigid and difficult to remove. Also, last question. Did you sanitize the GOOP in the interior of the adapter (seepage) or do you think it matters? I am guessing with all glue and adhesives, as they dry air bubbles appear......what do ya think???

Anyway, thanks for you expertise!

[dgax65]

Bob,

I just finished my install of the wet transducer (copied yours). Unfortunately, with the Lowrance transducer, you need to use the ABS 4in male adapter vs. 3in adapter. This sucks because one; its quiet a bit larger, and secondly, the 3 in. cap is flexible while the 4in cap is rigid...(sounds kind of West Hollywood-ish).

My only issue is going to be removing the cap to check for water levels. I am afraid I might eventually separate the ABS adapter from the hull since the cap is so rigid and difficult to remove. Also, last question. Did you sanitize the GOOP in the interior of the adapter (seepage) or do you think it matters? I am guessing with all glue and adhesives, as they dry air bubbles appear......what do ya think???

Anyway, thanks for you expertise!

You could make a small inspection hole in the cap and seal it with a rubber plug. That would allow you to clamp down the cap and never have to worry about removing it.

[WahooUSMA]

Thanks...I think I might give the inspection plug a shot.....Any recommendations on how to clean the GOOP of my transducer? What a royal pain in the ass......I am tempted to just go buy another one!

[robmandel]

that is slicker than shit. I have the scupper transducer in my trident, but have two other kayaks where that would totally be perfect. and the portable part of it is way cool. yes, there is a better mousetrap :you_rock::you_rock::you_rock:

[dsafety]

Wahoo,

I don't think having a rigid or rubber cap makes much of a difference. Most of the rigid ones are threaded so you could end up with some fairly twisted cables unless you pre-twist the opposite way before you put the cap on. Just make sure the transponder is pointed the right direction when you have things tightened down.

I think a rubber cap with hose clamp is a better way to go. You cannot secure a non-threaded rigid cap with a hose clamp the way you can with rubber. You should be able to find a larger rubber cap somewhere.

The inspection plug is a good idea. I had a problem with my FF last time out and thought that the water may have run dry. In ended up having to loosen the hose clamp while on the water to remove the cap to check things out, (it was a PITA). I discovered that there was still plenty of water, however. After putting everything back together, the FF worked fine. Maybe it was just a glitch in the unit.

I think I will add a fill hole to my setup so I can more easily add water if it is needed at some point.

As for cleaning the goop off, I don't have any recommendations. It probably is not necessary to get it all off. You just need to carve away any areas that have bubbles. Is there a solvent for Goop?

Bob

[PescadorPete]

If mounted inside a hull, why does it matter which way the transducer is pointed? If mounted through hull, I can see that it would in order to avoid cavitation (bubbles) while the boat is moving.

[WahooUSMA]

Wahoo,

I don't think having a rigid or rubber cap makes much of a difference. Most of the rigid ones are threaded so you could end up with some fairly twisted cables unless you pre-twist the opposite way before you put the cap on. Just make sure the transponder is pointed the right direction when you have things tightened down.

I think a rubber cap with hose clamp is a better way to go. You cannot secure a non-threaded rigid cap with a hose clamp the way you can with rubber. You should be able to find a larger rubber cap somewhere.

The inspection plug is a good idea. I had a problem with my FF last time out and thought that the water may have run dry. In ended up having to loosen the hose clamp while on the water to remove the cap to check things out, (it was a PITA). I discovered that there was still plenty of water, however. After putting everything back together, the FF worked fine. Maybe it was just a glitch in the unit.

I think I will add a fill hole to my setup so I can more easily add water if it is needed at some point.

As for cleaning the goop off, I don't have any recommendations. It probably is not necessary to get it all off. You just need to carve away any areas that have bubbles. Is there a solvent for Goop?

Bob

Bob, the 4in. is a rubber cap and does come with the hose clamp, but it is the thickness of the cap and rigidity that worries me. I bought the 3in before I realized my Lowrance transducer was larger than the Hummingbird. The 3in cap is much more flexible.

[dsafety]

PescadorePete,

The sonar transponder is directional. If you have the transponder pointing to the stern, your fish finder will show you things you have already passed so what shows up on your screen as you move forward would be what you would have seen if you moved backward had the transducer been aligned correctly.

If all you are using your FF for is to tell the depth of the water, this is probably not a big deal but if you are using it to actually locate fish or bait, you could be making decisions based on reading the data incorrectly.

Wahoo,

I don't think a thicker rubber cap is any big deal. It may make it harder to spread open the hole to get your plug through the rubber but if that is the case, just make the X cuts longer. You will be sealing these cuts with goop later anyway.

If you simply cannot spread the rubber wide enough, just drill a suitable sized hole in the rubber. Thread your plug through the hole and attach the transducer. Tape one side of the cap and fill the former hole with goop making sure you have some overlap on cap. When the goop has cured, go to the other side of the cap and spread a bit more goop there so the "plug you just made will not pop out.

The thicker rubber might actually make it easier to mount the transducer with screws since there will be more material for the screws to grab on to.

When you have completed your installation please post a photo for everyone to see.

Bob

[THE CALI HOOKUP!]

can the transducer still read through the abs matirial, Of course it sends a signal down then the signal spreads out untill it hits the bottom of the ocean. will this matirial mess up any readings because of how dense the matirial is.

The only problem I have is mounting the transducer to the cap, but I am sure I can figure it out, I have a question how close can you let the transducer get to the hull of the kayak with this type of install

Pm me if you have the answer

[grey zone]

I use a similar system that is a little more simple and works well. I have a small hard plastic box that is directly gooped to the inside of the kayak. The box is big enough for the transducer to sit in and the sides are 3" high. The bottom of the box was not removed so leaks are not a problem. I place the transducer in the box and add 1-2" of water and its good to go. I do not use a lid and water splashing out has never been a problem. You do not need much water. The depth finder I use is a Garmin and the picture is great.

[dtownfan]

dsafety...........i keep looking over your wet mount install and second guessing my future attempt at rigging my hummingbird. as of right now i have the hummingbird kit (sitting on the shelf) that craddles the tranny in marine grease. i pick up my yak next weekend and wonder......what will i do. i see the ease of moving the unit to other kayaks (i will only have one option there though) but if the sonar readings are better in water than grease well.....(would the grease make the hummingbird kit a wet mount?) i wonder how well the grease will do upside down if i ever have to store or transport that way.

are you still havin good results from the wet mount?

sorry to bring all this back up - just curious to learn more from your experience. any advice of things you would keep the same/change would be sweet!

[dsafety]

dsafety...........i keep looking over your wet mount install and second guessing my future attempt at rigging my hummingbird. as of right now i have the hummingbird kit (sitting on the shelf) that craddles the tranny in marine grease. i pick up my yak next weekend and wonder......what will i do. i see the ease of moving the unit to other kayaks (i will only have one option there though) but if the sonar readings are better in water than grease well.....(would the grease make the hummingbird kit a wet mount?) i wonder how well the grease will do upside down if i ever have to store or transport that way.

are you still havin good results from the wet mount?

sorry to bring all this back up - just curious to learn more from your experience. any advice of things you would keep the same/change would be sweet!

I have no experience with the "grease mount" so I cannot help you there. I can tell you that my unit, along with my kayak has been stored upside down for weeks and transported the same way. There have been no leaks and the performance has been excellent, (except for a flaky problem common to many Humminbirds when they suddenly stop showing any depth readings for a while).

My guess is that you could use grease instead of water in my design and everything would work fine. On a really hot day, the grease could liquify and cause some problems, especially if you stored or transported your yak upside down.

I like this design because it is so easy to install and there is virtually no chance of screwing anything up as you can with a goop or epoxy installation. The portability is is nice feature as well.

I hope this helps.

Bob

[Hunter (The 80's Man)]

Hey Bob (or anybody else that has tried this application) ,

So I did both my Trident and my wife's Tarpon. I finished the install, everything looked great. Both held water with no leaks, UNTIL I went to load my Trident on the truck. I was strapping it down when I heard a "glug-glug-glug" ... all the water was coming out. When my boat flexed, it compromised the goop. I since went back to my wife's boat and put a little side-to-side pressure on the pvc and hers lifted from the bottom as well. I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Any ideas??

How do I get around this problem?

Thanks,
Rob

[steveooo]

I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Rob


Winner winner chicken dinner:cheers1:

[dsafety]

Hey Bob (or anybody else that has tried this application) ,

So I did both my Trident and my wife's Tarpon. I finished the install, everything looked great. Both held water with no leaks, UNTIL I went to load my Trident on the truck. I was strapping it down when I heard a "glug-glug-glug" ... all the water was coming out. When my boat flexed, it compromised the goop. I since went back to my wife's boat and put a little side-to-side pressure on the pvc and hers lifted from the bottom as well. I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Any ideas??

How do I get around this problem?

Thanks,
Rob

Most kayak surfaces retain a little silicon, which is used as a mold release agent. Goop sticks very well to most clean surfaces so need to give the area you plan to apply the Goop to a good cleaning first. Alcohol works great. So does a light sanding of the area. You can do both.

If you properly prepare the area, Goop will stick so well that it is nearly impossible to remove.

Bob

[h2ofishfo]

my question is if u set the transducer to high in the water do u inturn reduce the size of the sonar ping due to the constriction of the tubing it sits in hmmmm???

[dgax65]

my question is if u set the transducer to high in the water do u inturn reduce the size of the sonar ping due to the constriction of the tubing it sits in hmmmm???

A side imaging or wide angle transducer probably won't work well in a wet well, but they don't work well for any in-hull application. The dual frequency transducers have a narrow and a wide cone angle. Even at a 60 degree cone angle, the transducer would have to be pretty far off the bottom of the yak to lose performance. The narrow cone would probably work in any conceivable kayak wet mount. Whatever return you would lose will be from the outer part of the cone. You should still get decent, if somewhat attenuated return.

[tattuna]

Using the transom mount that came with the transducer, I attached the transducer to the inside of the cap making sure that everything would fit inside the well when the cap was installed. I marked the top of the cap to show the direction the front of the transducer was pointing and gooped the area where the cable passed through to make it water tight.

1795




How did you attach the transom mount to the inside of the rubber cap? I'm trying this right now and that's the one part I can't figure out. Looks like you used screws?

[dsafety]

How did you attach the transom mount to the inside of the rubber cap? I'm trying this right now and that's the one part I can't figure out. Looks like you used screws?

That is exactly what I did. I screwed the mount to the rubber from the inside and then sealed everything with Goop.

Bob

[Geoffkoop]

Well im almost done with the wet mount setup. Just waiting another day for all the Goop to dry. I have an Eagle/Lowrance FF so i had to go with the 4in pipe as well. It looks like it will work well though and is fairly simple to construct. Ill let you all know when i test it out.

[dtownfan]

dsafety.......i took my hummingbird kayak mount out of the original packaging and fiddled around with it for about 25 minutes and decided to go with a wet mount version very similar to your post. hummingbird's mount just didn't look like the velcro zip-tie they include (to hold the tranny in the cradle of grease) would keep it stable enough for me. so....i made a trip to lowes and have a sweet set-up thanks to your pics and explanations. anyway, before i GOOP her up..........did you do anything to the flex-ible cap? like wipe it with rubbing alcohol or rough it up before applying the GOOP?

[dtownfan]

here are some pics i took after following bob's ideas. thanks again bob! i used a 3 to 4 inch adapter that had a smooth surface (smooth surface where the cap slides on). the 4 inch cap slides on and off easily (just a little space around the cap.....i used a screw driver at lowes to make sure it would tighten down well without distorting the rubber cap and potentially causing leaks or other problems) and with a few cranks of the hose clamp she is/was very snug. there is tons of material on top of the rubber cap for screws or bolts. i used 2 stainless steel bolts with nylon nuts. getting the hummingbird tranny cable through took an extra pair of hands and a flat head screw driver. if you drill a hole for the cable wire and cut the X as bob stated (or a T....i went with a T cut to stay away from the bolts i used) , you can use the screw driver to push on one of the individual triangles and pop her threw. i also drilled a hole in the tranny mount to help the cable wire feed up through the rubber cap near the bolts without being bound or making extra GOOPING. when the cap is on the distance between the bottom of the tranny and the potential surface of the hull has to be an inch or less. again, i looked over bob's work carefully and used as many hints as i could. i have yet to GOOP her up.

I was wondering if anything needed to be done to the cap before GOOPING. like cleaning or roughin up the surface. never sanded this type of material before. any suggestions.

thanks for all the posts! they are VERY helpful!

[Hypoxic1]

Impermanant installation so the entire unit may be removed anytime without having to disconnect the wires from the back of the unit, which can lead to broken pins, and corrosion.
Pelican box with the bottom cut out . a bracket is affixed to the lid which opens easily and can be locked down. The box bottom is cut out. The box is gooped to the bottom of the boat, and the transducer can be placed or removed using a rudder post or cotter pin arrangement.
Drop the transducer in place, the bracket holds it at the proper angle, drop a little water in and voila, you are in business.
cut a slot in the top of the box to allow for the wire to sit without being under any pressure from positioning.
The entire unit can sit in a bag, battery and all, and be placed after clearing the surf.
this transducer is pretty big, but im certain it will work with smaller units.

remove the unit anytime.

[Japanesezero]

has anyone tried using ultrasound gel for this setup? Is there a anti microbial that can be added to the water? I wont want a red tide in my yak.

[dsafety]

dsafety.......i took my hummingbird kayak mount out of the original packaging and fiddled around with it for about 25 minutes and decided to go with a wet mount version very similar to your post. hummingbird's mount just didn't look like the velcro zip-tie they include (to hold the tranny in the cradle of grease) would keep it stable enough for me. so....i made a trip to lowes and have a sweet set-up thanks to your pics and explanations. anyway, before i GOOP her up..........did you do anything to the flex-ible cap? like wipe it with rubbing alcohol or rough it up before applying the GOOP?

I did not do anything to the cap but wiping with alcohol would probably be a good idea.

Bob

[dsafety]

Impermanant installation so the entire unit may be removed anytime without having to disconnect the wires from the back of the unit, which can lead to broken pins, and corrosion.
Pelican box with the bottom cut out . a bracket is affixed to the lid which opens easily and can be locked down. The box bottom is cut out. The box is gooped to the bottom of the boat, and the transducer can be placed or removed using a rudder post or cotter pin arrangement.
Drop the transducer in place, the bracket holds it at the proper angle, drop a little water in and voila, you are in business.
cut a slot in the top of the box to allow for the wire to sit without being under any pressure from positioning.
The entire unit can sit in a bag, battery and all, and be placed after clearing the surf.
this transducer is pretty big, but im certain it will work with smaller units.

remove the unit anytime.

Nice setup Chris. I like the clear box idea. Is that thing waterproof enough to retain the water when turned upside down for transport or storage?

Bob

[Japanesezero]

I just made one just like dtown fan for my pranamax 170. i used the 3" version of everything he did and it fits like a glove. cant wait for the x-factor to get here so i can install it. gonna goop the top tonight so that its good and cured and then all i have to do is goop in the pvc and im set. took about 15 mins and i was taking my time!

EDIT:
just put 5 minute epoxy on the top to seal in the wires and screws. i ill check it in a bit to make sure the flex of the rubber doesn't pop the epoxy off. i scoured the rubber pretty good with a scratch awe.

Still waiting on hearing about any growth inhibitors in the water. bleach? simple green? isopropal alcohol? vodka?

[Japanesezero]

epoxy was a bad idea. dried quick but with the flex in the rubber peeled right off. had to chip it off the screws.... goop has now settled in and is in the process of drying. horray goop!

[Hypoxic1]

Bob,
no, you cant flip the boat and expect the water to stay. My installation is designed to allow for removal of the transducer, and the entire unit for that matter, after landing, without disconnecting any wires, which leads to corrosion, and broken pins.
earlier someone asked if the HD units needed to be thru hull. The answer is no. I used it for the first time today. worked like a champ. was like watching a movie. And as for detail, I saw my fish, dropped on my fish and brought home a 25-27 lb yellow today.
Thanks to the Darkhorse for teaching me how to use this fine tool today
Chris

[dtownfan]

epoxy was a bad idea. dried quick but with the flex in the rubber peeled right off. had to chip it off the screws.... goop has now settled in and is in the process of drying. horray goop!


i am gonna goop this weekend once i have the yak here. i went to home depot tonight and bought the materials to try making the 3 inch version. i could not get the tranny to sit as level as i can with the four inch. anyway, hopefully there will be room in the hull for my "super sized" wet mount.

i haven't found anything about ideas on treatin the water, but i read somewhere that a garmin wet mount called for mineral oil......this is only what i read though.....no idea if it works or what.

[dsafety]

i am gonna goop this weekend once i have the yak here. i went to home depot tonight and bought the materials to try making the 3 inch version. i could not get the tranny to sit as level as i can with the four inch. anyway, hopefully there will be room in the hull for my "super sized" wet mount.

i haven't found anything about ideas on treatin the water, but i read somewhere that a garmin wet mount called for mineral oil......this is only what i read though.....no idea if it works or what.

I would not worry much about treating the water in the well. A little bleach or pool chlorine every now and then should keep any algae from growing. Even if there is some algae, I doubt that it would be a big deal since the water we fish in often has lots of suspended stuff in it and the sonar still works fine.

Bob

[Japanesezero]

I would not worry much about treating the water in the well. A little bleach or pool chlorine every now and then should keep any algae from growing. Even if there is some algae, I doubt that it would be a big deal since the water we fish in often has lots of suspended stuff in it and the sonar still works fine.

Bob

I will probably still check water levels once a month anyways. Im thinking distilled water and an ounce or two of bleach.

[Geoffkoop]

Bob,
no, you cant flip the boat and expect the water to stay. My installation is designed to allow for removal of the transducer, and the entire unit for that matter, after landing, without disconnecting any wires, which leads to corrosion, and broken pins.
earlier someone asked if the HD units needed to be thru hull. The answer is no. I used it for the first time today. worked like a champ. was like watching a movie. And as for detail, I saw my fish, dropped on my fish and brought home a 25-27 lb yellow today.
Thanks to the Darkhorse for teaching me how to use this fine tool today
Chris

Damn! What kind of FF are you using? I want to watch YT in HD too :)

[Scuba]

Great Thread! thanks for posting this.

I just got a new Humminbird 325 in the mail yesterday, I can't wait to install it using this technique!

[rayak]

Really great idea there and a handy introduction to this forum for me. I was planning on gooping mine straight to hull this weekend but after stumbling upon this I'm now sold on the wet box idea.
Just for the record my Garmin 400C manual recommends mineral oil.
Thanks Bob and crew.

[Billy V]

Bob,
no, you cant flip the boat and expect the water to stay. My installation is designed to allow for removal of the transducer, and the entire unit for that matter, after landing, without disconnecting any wires, which leads to corrosion, and broken pins.
earlier someone asked if the HD units needed to be thru hull. The answer is no. I used it for the first time today. worked like a champ. was like watching a movie. And as for detail, I saw my fish, dropped on my fish and brought home a 25-27 lb yellow today.
Thanks to the Darkhorse for teaching me how to use this fine tool today
Chris

I just wired up the Lowrance HDS-5 on the skiff with the transducer mounted on the transom. I can't wait to test it out, it reads to 6000 ft. with this transducer.

[rayak]

Sorry guys, gonna drag this thread out just a little longer.
After a bit of help. I'm in Perth Western Australia I've sourced some clear acrylic pipe which will hopefully suit the rubber end cap if i can find one. But that's the problem, I'm having trouble tracking down one of these rubber end caps. Can anyone point me in the right direction. If I can't find one here, i'll try to get one online from up your way.

The acrylic pipe if i do get it, is going for $AUS98 a metre and they want me to buy a minimum of 2 metres which is a bit of a low blow. but if i do go with it i'll probably be able to sell it off on one or two of the local forums.

Thanks again.
Ray

[dsafety]

Rayak,

The rubber cap is a standard plumbing fitting available at most plumbing supply places in the US. Do you have what we call "Big Box" hardware stores in Australia that sell every possible item you can imagine for construction and home projects? If so, you should be able to find what you need in their plumbing aisle.

Someone should make a small business out of this. Buy up a bunch of acrylic pipe, rubber caps and hose clamps. Cut the pipe to the appropriate size, package the components up and sell them as wet transducer mount kits. I bet a lot of people would pay $14.99 for $5 worth of parts, especially if they cannot find the materials locally.

Bob

[rayak]

no big box, but thanks, i'll keep looking. i've got a couple of places 'calling me back' so see how we go.
I've managed to find some not acrylic but polycarbonate pipe where i don't have to buy any minimum size. the bloke there is happy for me to take 4 or 5 inches for 10 bucks. I'm sure i'll find the rubber cap somewhere. thanks

[dsafety]

I went out on Saturday and immediately discovered the my Humminbird FF did not work. It gave a reading of 0.8 ft. This has happened before when I went over the canyon and the sonar lost contact with the bottom but today it gave the same reading all the time.

I spent the entire day peddling blind. Even finding bait was a challenge. I am using this as my excuse for getting skunked on this trip.

I have been using this system for a couple of months and every time I pulled off the rubber cap to check the water, it was full. This trip, I did not check the water before heading out. Bad decision. When I returned home and checked, I found the well was totally dry.

I am not sure why or when the well drained but will be working on figuring that out. Needless to say, checking the water level in the well has been added to my preflight list. If I can find a piece of clear pipe, I will probably pull the ABS well and replace it one of these days.

Bob

[Nic D]

that sucks Bob,,, but at least you had an excuse for getting shut down, I didn't! ;)

I hope your fix is an easy one.

[dick fabulous]

Duck butter or somekind of synthetic grease?

[Rob929]

To Bob/ all for the info in this thread..

I have been less than impressed with my FF performance. I decided to pull up some of the foam around my ff and realized that the bubbles in the goop under the foam probably meant bubbles under the ducer as well. I decided to pull it all out.. good thing :
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j192/rob929/DSC05667.jpg

Now, some of the larger air gaps were formed when I pulled this up, but as you can see, there were plenty of small bubbles and areas that had not adhered well.

I switched to the wet install, and the first thing I had to do on the water was turn my contrast way down. I also noticed I had to tune the sensitivity. Performance seems to be greatly improved with better bottom contrast and better readings out in deeper water.

Has anyone come up with a simple fill/ check plug? I was thinking of running some small diameter tubing (like they sell for refridgerator water lines) with some kind of check valve. My motorcycle's gas cap has a vent tube that that has a one way valve on it.. something like that would probably work well for on the water top-off..

Anyway, this may cause others to second guess their goop installs. If you find what I did though, you can swap it out, and hopefully see what you have been missing!

[rayak]

Just an update,
Found a rubber cap, and some acrylic pipe which I belt sanded in to a nice snug fit to the hull. The bolts are temp, shortest S/S I could find in the shed. The blue plastic is just a bigger washer I made and fashioned in to an arrow to indicate direction of tranny.
Thanks again Bob and crew

[Aaron]

Am I missing the advantage of a wet mount? I am getting that it could mean better resolution, but with the proper installation of a thru-hull, resolution is dandy. With either a thru hull or a wet mount, the trans has to shoot through the plastic of the hull and the saltwater still is a different medium than the fluid you are filling the wet mount container with, just like mounting it in goop.

One thing that I can see being alleviated with the wet mount is the infamous "bubble problem" with goop. But this can be defeated! Here's a few "tricks" that I've used to get rid of the bubbles. I'm sure there are a million and that some of these are well known and that this is a bit off topic, but I'm bored so I will list...

1. When you apply your goop, use a 10 oz cartridge (caulking tube style) rather than the squeeze tube and as you apply, LEAVE THE TIP IN THE GOOP AS YOU SQUEEZE. What I mean is, allow the wet goop to build up around the tip of the caulking tube. Bubbles can be made by essentially "folding in" bubbles as the tip is raised and lowered. I say to use the caulking cartridges and a caulking gun as they are much easier to leave in place while the goop is being squeezed out than while the toothpaste style tube is being squeezed.

2. When you insert the transducer, do not "belly-flop" it or in other words, don't insert it flat into the goop. "Roll" it in from either front to back or back to front or side to side.

3. Use plenty of goop. I'm a fan of making things look clean, but I'm also a fan of making things work. Trying to make the edges of your goop line up with the edges of your trans will mean certain failure. You don't need to fill your hull, but a good amount of goop rather than the exact amount will mean wonders for your resolution. I would say that the area covered by goop extends at least an inch around all sides of my transducer.

4. Warm the tube of goop. This is a good one and a pretty easy "trick". Take a rag and soak it in water. Microwave the rag until its pretty warm/hot. Wrap the goop in the hot rag . This will lower the viscosity (thin) of the goop which will make it far less likely to trap bubbles. The goop will be "runnier" so building a small reservoir out of masking tape prior to pumping in your warmed goop may be a good idea.

5. Slap the hell out of your yak. A couple of good whacks on the underside of your yak with a flat palm may just loosen up some of your air bubbles.

By doing these things I've had the same install on the same transducer for 3 years running. Good resolution and nothing to check prior to heading out. But maybe I'm an old school guy and these "new school" wet mount guys will be able to convince me that its the way to go!

[dtownfan]

rayak - love the clear plastic set up. nice seal job as well. did you use 3m 5200? i did and really am sold on the stuff. let us know how your readings work. thanks to bob and some others i am very happy with the wet mount set-up.

[jorluivil]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the purpose of a 'wet mount transducer'? Will it not work if it's somehow fastened to the hull of a yak without any goop? I'm asking because rather than having to install and remove the ducer each time I go out I want to permanently mount the ducer for my Humminbird 323. Again, not trying to be a dumbsh*t I just need to know before I go and make any installations

[WahooUSMA]

I gave up on the wet transducer due to leakage and went back to the original goop method. This time, I installed the unit under my Revo seat area. Actually, the resolution is the same between the wet method and conventional. No difference. Just a lot less work.

[dsafety]

jorluivil, there has been a lot of discussion about mounting transducers in this forum. Search the archives and you will find just about everything there is on the subject.

As for the wet mount vs goop, many of us have found that the performance of a goop mount quickly degrades as the goop gets milky or forms bubbles. The wet mount just uses water as the transmission medium. It works great, as long as you can keep your wet well full of water.

Wahoo and others have found that it can be difficult to attach a wet well to the kayak and get the attachment to hold over a long period of time. I had mine come unglued after a particularly tough launch attempt.

Some people have recently had success with just attaching their transducer to the hull with straps in the lowest point in the kayak. They then purposely add enough water to make sure the transducer is sitting a a little pool of water. Apparently it does not take much. I do not have first hand experience with this method but it sounds interesting.

I do have some experience with the permanent wet well option and can tell you that if you can get a good seal between the well and the hull, the method works great. It is one of the more popular setups these days but plenty of people are doing just fine with other options.

Bob

[dtownfan]

i don't take mine out each time. 3 to 4 twists of the hose clamp and the cap slides on and off if needed.

another reason i went this way first is that i would not have to peel goop or epoxy off my ducer if the installation was poor. i would have had to use a ton of goop to make a tranny fit in the sharp "V" portion of my yak. the other areas off to the sides didn't look like good options to me either as they raise up quite high and are also agressively rounded. if you ever flip one over you will see what i am taking about real quick.

someday i will use a thru-hull set up but my 135 ride doesn't have the right hull shape for it. to many contours and no real flat"ish" areas. the 2010, 135 ride has a pontoon style hull.

some of us love to tinker and making things and trying out ideas is considered a good time (not a waste of time or a pain). i grew up on a farm and was taught how to use all kinds of tools at a young age. this kinda of work is fun, cheap, and well..............just plain interesting to me. i took some tips, asked a bunch of questions, and had a blast putting it together.

i have seen many methods.......many work great and to compare you would really have to try them to see. i love my 3m 5200 sealant wet mount for now.

[dick fabulous]

Most sonar manufacturers offer an accessory 'shoot thru puck' that is considerably more compact than using pipe and whatever else you may pimp your yak the crafty cheap way. You can win an Indy car race with a coffee table if you spend enough money modifying it.

[rayak]

Couldn't agree more dtown. I love a good tinker, and really enjoyed putting this together. (I couldn't find 3M, so used a marine grade silicone of some sort, forget the name but it said it had a high bond strength and was for marine applications)

I believe a lot of goop installations work very well, and there all good tips sapdawg but from the little I've read, I believe that some silicones actually form bubbles as they cure, so you it doesn't matter how much care you take to lay it all down. This may not be true for the silicones a lot of people use but I have read that Goop is one of those that will form bubbles during the curing process.

Freshwater maybe of a slightly different density to saltwater but there is no reason why you can't fill it with saltwater from your local fishing hole. So whether the goop interferes with the signal or not, I see this wet mount as having one less ingredient. Whether that helps much or not, who really knows, but it can't be a bad thing.

I also like the fact that it's removable. I ended up with a spare piece of acrylic after my install so should the boss let me get a second yak i'd be able to switch the unit between the two easily.

Lastly, I like the protection it offers the tranny from bumps. Not that there is any reason why you couldn't put a guard around a goop install.

I think largely but, goop installs are tried and true. They obviously work, so I'm not bagging them out, but just thought this install looked neat and wanted to have a crack.

Thanks all.

[swinginFish]

I've been using a wet mount for 5+ years - primarily so that I could easily use my ff/transducer on any of the various boats I've had. Point is the cup in which one places the transducer needs to to do two things only, i.e., accommodate the size of your transducer, and contain the signal medium.

I personally prefer round puck-shape transducers, mate an appropriately-sized ABS coupling to the yak's bottom and then epoxy its fitted-edge down to the hull's inside (Have learned that slow-drying epoxy is best - less brittle & more robust bond than quick dry).

Once I'm at the beach, I pour a bit of water into the created reservoir, put the puck in (and attach the ff) and I'm off. It is suprisingly simple and effective for my purposes, with gravity doing its job of holding the puck in place for as long as I'm on the water.

I've now done this on 5 different yaks, and in 5 years the only issue has been when quick-dry epoxy let go after a yak fell hull down from my truck bed to the sand. Flex of the hull broke the seal so water leaked out from beneath the ABS reservoir (If someone's really concerned about this, then I suspect vaseline or grease would continue to work even when the reservoir seal gave way).

As for down sides, as Andy rightly noted, polyethylene's a bit slow to respond to temperature changes, so transducers w/ built in temp gauges sitting or glued inside a craft will respond accordingly.

AE

[Bill K]

I've been having the same problems, with my transducer. It was originally installed, by the Kayak store, with a piece of foam, as the cup, and then vaseline was used inside the cup. It works o.k., until you turn the kayak upside down, then you have vaseline all over the place.
Next try, was with the goop, and then silicone. Both worked for a while, but then I would only get a 0.5 reading. Either, there were bubbles formed, or an adhesion problem.
My last attempt, was the wet well. I used silicone to mount the pvc fitting. It worked great for a few trips, and then stopped. The silicone did not seal well enough, and the water leaked out.
I have to re-do. I am thinking about, going back to the foam cup, and using a 2 part clear epoxy.
Has anyone used the epoxy method?

Bill

[Geoffkoop]

Bill, just do it with the PVC pipe and goop as mentioned. Mine has worked like a champ.

[dsafety]

While I still have full confidence in the web mount system that was introduced at the start of this thread, I will be testing a new, (for me), option very soon.

Hummingbird has a "just for kayaks" mount kit that includes a small plastic frame that is shaped like their transducer. This gets mounted to the hull with adhesive provided in the kit. They also provide a "special" grease that you put in this reservoir and then set the transducer in the grease.

It looks like a good system but I am concerned about the grease liquefying like the Vaseline does. I asked Humminbird about this and was told that it was a high temperature grease that will not liquefy. They are sending me a kit to test. I actually have one of these kits now that Dtownfan sent to me but do not have the grease so I have not been able to do the test.

When I have tried this system out, I will post the results.

I did a little research online and learned that there are many industrial greases, usually lithium-based that are very stable at high temperatures. My guess is that the "special" grease offered by Humminbird is one of those.

If you have a grease mount that works except that your grease melts, you might want to try one of these high temp products. If it works, going the DIY way will be much cheaper than buying the H-bird system which costs somewhere around $25. That said, if you get everything is a kit that is designed to fit the transducer, it may be worth the investment.

Stay tuned.

Bob

[sandydiego]

So I finished the install of the wet mount on the new kayak and had to turn down the sensitivity on my 385ci from 18 to 2. I have found that if your max bottom setting in set to 450 the fish finder runs perfect. The default is 1000 on the 385ci.

I had problems when the max reading was set at 200ft. I figured this out because every time I went over the canyon in the reserve the FF stopped reading correctly.

This wet mount ost me $14 for the pvc/rubber cap and $10 for the marine goop at OEX. I will never go back to glueing my FF directly to the hull. I need to now make a Battery box for the rear hatch on the pro angler.

Bob you rock! Thanks for sharing this.

Steve

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=245
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=246
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=243
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=238
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=247

[sandydiego]

Any one interested in splitting the cost for some 3M Scotch-Weld Structural Plastic Adhesive DP8005, 35 mL, a pack of tips and a applicator gun? It's $72 + tax at Grainger.

[umtduckhead]

any body running a lowrance in a wet mount on a revo? if so do you like it better than the goop?

[Geoffkoop]

any body running a lowrance in a wet mount on a revo? if so do you like it better than the goop?

Yes and yes...it's actually a cheap eagle cuda but I think they are made by the same.

[umtduckhead]

Yes and yes...it's actually a cheap eagle cuda but I think they are made by the same.


have you found the wet mount to be that much better?

[WahooUSMA]

any body running a lowrance in a wet mount on a revo? if so do you like it better than the goop?


I did have a wet mount, but have since removed the contraption. I went back to the goop (to me, no difference in quality of images). The seal between the PVC and hull started to leak. Also, the front storage in the Revo is limited anyway, and you have to use a 4 in. PVC/cap if you go with a Lowrance FF. Just took up too much room and you always had to be diligent when stowing gear in the hatch.

[dsafety]

If you are concerned about the space the wet mount takes up or possible leakage issues, (these can be easily overcome), you may want to check out the thread on the Grease Mount.

Bob

[WahooUSMA]

If you are concerned about the space the wet mount takes up or possible leakage issues, (these can be easily overcome), you may want to check out the thread on the Grease Mount.

Bob

Actually Bob, I went first back to the goop, with the transducer under the seat. Images are great. Then, last week I bought another transducer and did the Josh P method install for comparison. However, I sold my revo before I could do the evaluation...lol.

Any ideas on transducer mounting for a Pro Angler!

[dsafety]

I have not spent any time around a PA but with all that space, I am sure there are plenty of good places to install the tranducer.

From my experience, Goop will work fine, until it doesn't. The problem is that the Goop goes bad slowly so you probably will not know that it is degrading.

With the ease of installing and removing both the wet and grease mounts, it seems to me that one of those would be a better long term choice.

Bob

[bigbarrels]

How much water does the transducer have to sit in? Does Ultrasound gel work?

[Geoffkoop]

I have noticed a slightly better image compared to goop. My depth with goop seemed to be inconsistant (ex. 100 feet deep then all the sudden 190 feet, then back) . The wet mount has been better.

[sandydiego]

Actually Bob, I went first back to the goop, with the transducer under the seat. Images are great. Then, last week I bought another transducer and did the Josh P method install for comparison. However, I sold my revo before I could do the evaluation...lol.

Any ideas on transducer mounting for a Pro Angler!

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=245
I placed the wet mount to the left of the center hatch. I wanted to put it in a place that would not get stressed or hit. So far it's great.

Steve

[OutdoorAdvntr]

hi everyone, i would like to know if anyone still using this method up to this present? looks neat and clean.. thanks!

[rossman]

I have used this on my Prowler 13 for about 4 years, with 2 different sonar/gps units. Works great for me. I use mineral oil in the PVC to cut down on bubbles and/or algae. The only drawback I see with it is that the temp sensor tends to give me the ambient temp inside the hull, rather than water temp.

[GetSharked]

Anyone thought of trying these waterproof electrical boxes? Seem like a good way to go. Cut the bottom out and glue down like the pipe fitting. Screw down waterproof lid would make a good seal. My Lowrance transducer is pretty long and definitely wouldn't fit in any pipe smaller than 5". You can just chose the size you want that fits best with these.

[PescadorPete]

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegallery/data/500/transducer1.JPG

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegallery/data/500/transducer2.JPG


When after two or three years it sprung a leak in the back where it was hard to get to, I decided to convert it to a putty mount. It works better than the wet well.


http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegallery/data/500/transducer3.JPG

The piece of pool noodle and cover keep the transducer pressed into place.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegallery/data/500/transducer4.JPG

[NICKWORN]

Check it out, works like a champ!!