Kayak Color and sharks...

[Fiskadoro]

In another thread someone asked me about my camouflaged kayak and how I thought it's color might relate to sharks, and I wrote a "novel" so I decided that I might as well make the post it's own thread.

Sorry in advance if anyone get's pissed off by this... it's just my honest opinions, take em or leave em.

So here's the yak and it's paint job...http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8683/jimc2.jpg
Some may know that my Camo pattern is on there to make it less visible to seabass when pot hole'n b, but there is whole other reason, and that is the fact I put it on there to deter sharks.

So here's the basic ideas...

I used to design and build large shark trolling lures for Makos and T sharks. For a while I was even considering marketing them. I've put in a lot of time thinking about what attracts sharks and what does not.

I tried all kinds of color patterns for deep water shark jigs and by far the most effective were: Reds, Oranges, and Pinks. Followed by Yellows and Bright Lime greens, so sharks are attracted to those colors but that is not the only thing involved here.

I have fished sharks since I was a kid, everything from tigers, and 14ft hammers in the surf in Texas.... To Makos and 14ft+ Threshers here. Some people consider me some kind of an expert on them or Guru on them, which is kind of BS. I'm just a guy who's educated myself about them. I have seen and caught my share, read a shitload about them, I am friends with some true experts and basically do know a lot about them and their behavior, but I'll pass on the expert status.

My take is the Whites are here and it's just a matter of time before a Kayak fisherman get's killed by one.

Before anyone freaks out...Let's face it people die doing things all the time. I mean statistically your more likely to die of a heart attack kayaking then getting eaten by a white, but probabilities being what they are I'd say eventually it's going to happen to someone. My take is why not take steps to avoid it if you can, and for me personally...well I've killed so many sharks I can't help think that they'd love to get me if they could. :biggrinjester:

Call it poetic justice or just superstition but I've fished them for decades and seen so many sharks in the water over the years often in places you would not think they'd be, that it just makes me very wary of them. Not that it would ever keep me off the water. :sifone:

Sharks are highly evolved creatures with one of the longest adaption periods recorded in fossil history. That makes them highly predictable on certain levels. Sharks are attracted to many things. One of them is their prey, and they usual find and attack prey in a predictable way.

Makos and Whites are ambush feeders.

I know more about makos so I'll start with them. Makos like to swim down on the thermocline in the open ocean and then come up and hit fish on the surface using their speed to clip off the tails of large fish like swords before the fish ever even see them. Then they let them bleed out and come back to feed on them.

Here's a great vid of a mako clopping a tail like this..

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oE6SFVliuYk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="480"></iframe>


In a similar way whites hang deep watching for their prey on the surface and then they come up from below at speed and hit them hard using their jaw strength and huge teeth to deliver a crushing lethal blow before they ever see it coming. Once again they attack then wait with big prey just like Makos for their prey to bleed out and then come back and eat them.

Here's a vid of a white attack on a small seal but imagine how fast it was moving to get all that weight up into the air.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CfcyxNq1-j8" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="480"></iframe>

A White's favorite prey is an elephant seal, and they are not small like the pup above, they just happen to be about the size of a kayak. To a suspended hunting white thirty feet down in the water, a kayak silhouette on the surface must look a whole lot like an elephant seal. At that depth he can see you but you can't see him which is why they hunt that way but they can't see you all that clearly. So they are looking up for the dark silhouettes of their prey against the light blue background of the surface of the ocean. So Kayaks make a tempting target to them as they have the same basic silhouette or shadow in the water as a elephant seal.

Personally I think gray, dark gray, and dark green kayaks must look a lot like a elephant seal to a white. So I'd stay away from those colors from a match the hatch perspective. I think dark kayaks are the most likely to trigger a crushing attack from down deep, the classic white feeding behavior. Especially early in the morning or late in the evening, in turbid water or near the surf zone where visibly is reduced.

You might say wait a minute you said they like bright colors, and I did say that but what I did not tell you is that for makos the best colors for surface jigs not diving jigs are not bright colors but dark colors purple, black and dark green. The reason being that these colors make the sharpest silhouette or cast a better shadow and they are the easiest for makos that are hanging deep looking up for prey on the surface to see, and that feeding behavior is duplicated by white sharks.

So contrary to popular belief I think dark colors are more likely to trigger an aggressive strike response from a deep hunting white.

I'll call that the match the hatch factor.

That said: I don't think I would ever buy red yellow or orange kayak, but that is because of another behavior.

I'll call this the Yum Yum yellow factor.

Like I said sharks are attracted by bright colors, and though bright colors may not be as likely to trigger a hunting type of attack from a deep shark they are far more likely to trigger investigative behavior or scavenging behavior where a shark that is already swimming near the surface comes up and chews on your yak, just to see if it's something edible. Sharks have prey they hunt but they are oportunistic and will eat other things like dead whales that they do not hunt down.

Think about this a minute a shark looking up sees your yak against a whiteish light blue back ground of water and sky, but a shark that sees you from the side sees your yak against a green or dark blue background.

With my mako lures: the lures that dived deep got bit best if they were bright colors because the sharks were seeing them from the side not from underneath them.

Ultimately this is all about visibility, what get's seen due to high contrast is the most likely thing to get attacked or probed for scavange.

I'd say the worst case scenario is red because it is dark enough to trigger a hunting response from sharks that are deep, but also warm enough to trigger an investigative response from sharks swimming near the surface. That's why I would not own a red kayak for fishing in the ocean.

Just my take, but that is my take.

So how do you get around all this or whats the perfect color or color pattern for fishing in sharky waters. Well you only have to look at the sharks themselves to see what works. A mako is white underneath and then blue on the sides.

http://www.bigfishcharters.com/images/mako.jpg

Millions of years of evolution has given them coloring that reduces contrast when viewed from the top side or bottom. We have used the exact same color pattern ideas for military aircraft to reduce their visibility to enemy aircraft.
http://www.japanfocus.org/data/F-111C-1SQN-1.jpg

Makos Threshers, whites even blue sharks all have white bellies and variations of blue on their sides.

So what would be the safest color for a fishing kayak when it comes to sharks? Well a white kayak would be the least likely to get attacked from below in a feeding type attack, and a blue one would be safest when it comes to sharks that are not hunting but swimming near the surface. If you were going to go with a solid color I'd say light blue, but ideally the best color pattern as it relates to shark safety would be a blue sided white bottomed kayak.

The topsides of course could be any color at all, as the sharks can't see you from above, so I'd say white or a bright color would be ideal for the top.

My take is that kayaking is still in it's infancy. When plastic kayaks first started being made the colors were a gimmick to give people choice, and bright colors are easier for people to see on the water if the lost their yak, or got in trouble. That said the colors we see now are not going to be around for ever. It's not like you see green red or orange boats out there.

Eventually people are going to realize that some color choices might be safer then others when it comes to sharks. I think that is just a given. I think the first time you see someone get eaten out there in a red kayak you're going to see a lot of manufactures cut back on their production of red kayaks. Supply and demand, eventually people are going to quit buying them.

I mean the writing is already on the wall for people that are willing to look at it.

Anyone else notice a pattern here?

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/santamariatimes.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/0/f3/186/0f31868c-de29-11df-815c-001cc4c03286-revisions/4cc20ba335c28.image.jpg

http://www.rollordrown.com/images/sharkweb/shark10.jpg

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9239/danandsharkbittenkayakj.png


As to my color choice.... Well I hate blue and white yaks are harder to find. I also like the idea of being seen in the water since I don't want to get run over, and lime green kayaks show up really well in low light conditions like in the morning when I'm paddling out of a harbor.. So I figured Lime green was the least of those bright color evils, but I would of honestly bought I white one if I had seen one in the same price range.

When Josh and I started talking about seabass, kayak color, and kelp I decided to paint my yak a shark friendly light blue and then camo it with a kelp frond pattern. In theory this makes my yak harder to see to seabass and since camo patterns break up the silhouette to the eye, and the whole issue with sharks is the silhouette and it's contrast to the background that camo over light blue should be pretty safe as far as sharks go.

That said I left the topsides bright green because I don't want to get run over by a boat, which in my opinion is a bigger issue then white sharks.

So there you have my big shark kayak color theory.

Jim

[mtnbykr2]

well done, nice and interesting, I like the camo theory for the sharks and the kelp...a shark theme on a yak...that would proably sell....I wonder if one could find a "wrap" to stick to a yak...hmmmm....

[wiredantz]

well done, nice and interesting, I like the camo theory for the sharks and the kelp...a shark theme on a yak...that would proably sell....I wonder if one could find a "wrap" to stick to a yak...hmmmm....


ill be intrested

[blackRifle]

What was the type of paint that was used?

[Rockin1904]

Great info on this matter Jim. Ive wondered a lot about this, but I guess the real test is just time on the water?

[deepdvr]

I subscribe to the theory that sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This pic is the NorCal dude that almost got chomped this past August. So much for the shark shield pattern on the yak.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ericedb/NewImage.jpg

[herbo]

Very Well Done piece of information, Jim!!! Color has always been on my mind when I step up for a new one. Have you ever heard the term YUM YUM Yellow? had heard about this way back when with no follow up, Any ideas? .....H:sifone:

[WahooUSMA]

That said: I don't think I would ever buy red yellow or orange kayak, but that is because of another behavior.

I'll call this the Yum Yum yellow factor.

Phaaqing great! I just bought a yellow Torque! Thanks...LMFAO. That's why I C & R all Threshers.....you never know when a T's cousin, Whitey or Mako is in the mood for a nibble or is pissed you harvested a family member!

Good info...but from my past experience...when your time is up, your time is up! I used to think there was a bullet out there with my name on it. Well, I made it out. I guess it wasn't my time then. Hopefully, its not now or anytime soon, especially by way bleeding out due to getting munched.

It is the Pacific Ocean, there are dangers abound, and you are entering their food chain....That said, Hey Rik, do you have another demo, say in Camo?

[WahooUSMA]

Just one quick final thought.....sometimes when I am sitting out there all alone, clear or gray skies, dusk or dawn, I get the major 'turtle is peeking' syndrome in my @ss! Don't really know what it is, but it sure as hell makes you think....the Tax Man is out there! That's usually when I call it quits for the day!

[herbo]

Doh! Yum Yum Yellow....so much for evlyn wad sped red couse.....H:sifone:

[poorpaddy]

I think it was looking for creme filling!

I subscribe to the theory that sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This pic is the NorCal dude that almost got chomped this past August. So much for the shark shield pattern on the yak.

[Fiskadoro]

This pic is the NorCal dude that almost got chomped this past August. So much for the shark shield pattern on the yak.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ericedb/NewImage.jpg



This is the classic example of someone taking an idea they do not understand and using it in a way that it actually achieves the opposite effect of what they are going for.

The idea behind the concept that patterns would deter sharks is that a pattern breaks up the silhouette of the object involved, minimizing it's contrast with the surrounding environment like camouflage. From that basic concept some people took that all patterns deter sharks and started painting zebra stripes on their surfboards. Now those black zebra stripes on white surfboards are not a terrible idea as they make some sense because in the water the white turns to light blue and the black to dark blue and to the shark that looks like rippling surface water, but the stripes really should go all the way to the edge for them to be effective.

This guy took the zebra stripes and went a step further, and painted high contrast black bars on his Yum Yum yellow yak.

In order to break up the silhouette first the pattern needs to go all the way to the edges and second it part of the pattern has to blend in to the environment the yak is in. His pattern does neither. It instead looks like some high contrast road side sign, that's there to alert a driver to danger.

Don't paint that pattern on your kayak.
http://www.3csoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/MP900442430_OopsSign-595x395.jpg
http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/communication/040507_cbrown_mp_comm_death.jpg

Warning signs are yellow and black for a reason it's to make them stand out and be more visible to the eye. His stripes rather then make his kayak less visible to sharks just make it more visible and therefore more interesting to sharks. So essentially his stripes made it even more attractive to sharks, which might well be a factor in why it was attacked.

Once again it's the Yum Yum yellow factor.

Like I said sharks are attracted by bright colors, and contrast and though bright colors may not be as likely to trigger a hunting type of attack from a deep shark they are far more likely to trigger investigative behavior or scavenging behavior where a shark that is already swimming near the surface comes up and chews on your yak, just to see if it's something edible. Sharks are opportunistic and will eat other things that they do not hunt down. Just like a good looking babe draws your attention when walking by that high contrast pattern on that yak caught that sharks eye and made it worthy of investigation.

This may seem wild or new but it's not. People have been fishing small boats in the ocean for thousands of years and it's always been traditional to paint hulls white aqua or blue. I bet you money that centuries ago local fisherman in shark infested waters figured out that white or blue hulls were less attractive to sharks then bright colored ones and that is why that tradition exists.

Before rotomolded kayaks most commercially available kayaks had white hulls. For instance I bought a Altura Kevlar yak that I'm going to put a hobie drive into. It's yellow and a non traditional shape but it has a traditional white hull like all their traditional touring yakshttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n265/paddle-and-flies/BlackhawkAlturacopy.jpg

That is actually the very kayak I now own, nice but I'll probably eventually camo that bottom as well.

As to your stripe guy...If he wanted to make his yellow yak less interesting to sharks all he had to do is paint the bottom white or blue. The last thing he should of done is put high contrast stripes on it because that's like a high contrast invitation for trouble.

Just my take...


Jim

[Fiskadoro]

What was the type of paint that was used?

Krylon Fusion for Plastic...
http://www.krylon.com/images/products/large/fusion-plastic.png

It's alright: it sticks but not like automotive or a good paint on glass or metal. Slowly wears off but it's OK and I think it does stick better then standard spray paint.

Jim

[deepdvr]

As to your stripe guy...If he wanted to make his yellow yak less interesting to sharks all he had to do is paint the bottom white or blue. The last thing he should of done is put high contrast stripes on it because that's like a high contrast invitation for trouble.

Just my take...


Jim

I think we all know we are fishing in the taxman's backyard. As you said before, its a numbers game and somebody's number will come up eventually. I really don't buy into all this color/pattern nonsense.....unless you enjoy sitting on a ridiculous looking yak. :p

[Fiskadoro]

I think we all know we are fishing in the taxman's backyard. As you said before, its a numbers game and somebody's number will come up eventually. I really don't buy into all this color/pattern nonsense.....unless you enjoy sitting on a ridiculous looking yak. :p

I used to know a old guy that only fished two colors of lures: white lures and black lures. He used white lures on sunny days, and black lures on cloudy days, and he was a hell of a fisherman, and caught a lot of fish.

One day we were talking about it and he said essentially what you said: I really don't buy into all this color/pattern nonsense. If a fish wants to eat a lure it's going to eat it.

My take was fair enough, I mean whatever works for you. That said at the risk of looking ridiculous I'll stick to the blue and white irons and the sardine and mackerel patterned lures, the zukini and mean joe green colored feathers and marlin jigs, and all those other lure patterns I like to use and have had success with because between you and I and the rest of the internet world...... I really do think when it comes to what fish and sharks are attracted to, color does in fact make a difference.

More then one way to skin a catfish though... and to each their own.

Jim

[wiredantz]

Proverb:

The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps.



I don't doubt Jim words. I could just imagine how a red kayak looks under the water. It probably looks like a handicap seal that is bleeding. (because the light will disperse the red in the water and makes it look attractive) So the attraction is there.

and i also believe that we are in the worng places at the wrong time.

time and unforeseen circumstance will befall us all.


This being the case, taking extra steps to protect one self is not a bad idea and these shark infested waters. Especially if you tend to go out by yourself like i do.

[Iceman]

So who is packin' heat? :D

http://www.007collector.com/bond/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/mp_shark-bullet_prop.jpg

[Ed]

I could just imagine how a red kayak looks under the water. It probably looks like a handicap seal that is bleeding. (because the light will disperse the red in the water and makes it look attractive) So the attraction is there.

When I dive under and look back up at my yak all I see is a dark silhouette against the sky. Can't even make out the color. Just sayin........ :D

[wiredantz]

When I dive under and look back up at my yak all I see is a dark silhouette against the sky. Can't even make out the color. Just sayin........ :D


Well, i could be wrong. lol


I just used a glass of water and put in a red plastic coated pen and it made the water look red.

So i would just say in the right conditions it would probably disperse the color red in the immediate water surrounding the kayak.

[dos ballenas]

In Southern California we only have to worry about Great whites for the most part. Unfortunately socal is home to a large number of immature and juvenile GWS. Fortunately, when they are small these sharks are mostly fish eaters.

That being said, if the young ones are born and grow up here then the mammal eating mothers must also be here. This may cause some concern, but if you run the numbers, the probability of getting attacked by a shark on a kayak is very, very, very low. How many shark attacks have you heard of in socal? Compare that to how many people go swimming, surfing, kayaking, etc.. everyday in socal. Of course the chances go up if you spend more time OTW. Not to mention that GWS populations are slowly growing.

If you're worried about sharks, then you might as well stay home and never leave your house. Its more dangerous crossing the street to get a donut. I'm personally more worried about the 16 year old that just got their drivers license...

That being said, shark avoidance is a great idea... but then you have to think about why and when most shark attacks occur... Most of the time shark attacks are a case of mistaken identity.... most of the time they occur in murky water with low visibility. Most of the time GWS are ambush predators. So how visible is a kayak, or the color of a kayak, in dark, dirty water? Good question.

In regards to color preference when using irons or jigs IMO: color matters, but the action or way the jig swims is more important. The action is a combination of the jigs shape, and the fishermens presentation. Many people say size doesn't matter... whats important is how you use it. IMO, I think size, color, and action all are important. But they are not equally important.

The only shark attack I can think of that occured in socal was a case of mistaken identity in low visibility water which leads me to believe that the shark was keyed in on the action of the swimmer and not their color...

The fact is that GWS are all around us all the time. If they wanted to eat humans they wouldn't have any problem doing so.

Just go fish... you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

[wiredantz]

In Southern California we only have to worry about Great whites for the most part. Unfortunately socal is home to a large number of immature and juvenile GWS. Fortunately, when they are small these sharks are mostly fish eaters.

That being said, if the young ones are born and grow up here then the mammal eating mothers must also be here. This may cause some concern, but if you run the numbers, the probability of getting attacked by a shark on a kayak is very, very, very low. How many shark attacks have you heard of in socal? Compare that to how many people go swimming, surfing, kayaking, etc.. everyday in socal. Of course the chances go up if you spend more time OTW. Not to mention that GWS populations are slowly growing.

If you're worried about sharks, then you might as well stay home and never leave your house. Its more dangerous crossing the street to get a donut. I'm personally more worried about the 16 year old that just got their drivers license...

That being said, shark avoidance is a great idea... but then you have to think about why and when most shark attacks occur... Most of the time shark attacks are a case of mistaken identity.... most of the time they occur in murky water with low visibility. Most of the time GWS are ambush predators. So how visible is a kayak, or the color of a kayak, in dark, dirty water? Good question.

In regards to color preference when using irons or jigs IMO: color matters, but the action or way the jig swims is more important. The action is a combination of the jigs shape, and the fishermens presentation. Many people say size doesn't matter... whats important is how you use it. IMO, I think size, color, and action all are important. But they are not equally important.

The only shark attack I can think of that occured in socal was a case of mistaken identity in low visibility water which leads me to believe that the shark was keyed in on the action of the swimmer and not their color...

The fact is that GWS are all around us all the time. If they wanted to eat humans they wouldn't have any problem doing so.

Just go fish... you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.


Yes, it is a very very low chance. you are more likely to get in a car accident and probably the same percentage as getting struck by lightning.

Just like we have to drive to work and put on our seatbelts and just as we make sure we carry a spare tire. This is just like going into lion territory, you just want to play your cards right.

No doubt all of us love to be on the water, thats why we are all here. Some of us just like to take more precautions than others. Some of us drive a huge Hummer while other drive a smart car. How protected are you?

If someone wants to be camoflauged, while other want to go in a bright red suit. To each his own.


I had a red tandem for a long time and never got bothered. Was I more of a target that another color, i don't know. Do i want to find out? no...

[CurtyL]

my thoughts? dead man paddlin' :leaving:

[Hunter (The 80's Man)]

So, what's the protocol if you do have an encounter with one of these sharks? If you have one nosing around your yak, is it one of those things where you don't make eye contact? Do you stare him down? Do I raise my arms and yell to try and seem bigger than I am? Or, maybe since I'll be crapping my pants, I can just throw it at him like a monkey in a zoo. Seriously, if you can poke him with a paddle, do you do that? What do you do????

[wiredantz]

So, what's the protocol if you do have an encounter with one of these sharks? If you have one nosing around your yak, is it one of those things where you don't make eye contact? Do you stare him down? Do I raise my arms and yell to try and seem bigger than I am? Or, maybe since I'll be crapping my pants, I can just throw it at him like a monkey in a zoo. Seriously, if you can poke him with a paddle, do you do that? What do you do????


well, i read your suppose to stay still, if he becomes aggressive you hit him on his nose with your paddle, and then poke his eye out with your knife if your endanger and prey you don't get eaten alive.

[bubblehide]

well, i read your suppose to stay still, if he becomes aggressive you hit him on his nose with your paddle, and then poke his eye out with your knife if your endanger and prey you don't get eaten alive.


Uhmmmmm, you may want to think about shitting you waders first:biggrinjester:

[sasha]

Hey i know im new but isnt the idea is to tie a big hook to the back of the kayak. Then peddal real fast and now you got a one big lure to get the biggest fish in the kayak. Well just a thought,,

[dos ballenas]

<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD dir=ltr>And then food for thought...

Are Sharks Color Blind?

ScienceDaily (Jan. 19, 2011) — Sharks are unable to distinguish colors, even though their close relatives rays and chimaeras have some color vision, according to new research by Dr. Nathan Scott Hart and colleagues from the University of Western Australia and the University of Queensland in Australia.
Their study shows that although the eyes of sharks function over a wide range of light levels, they only have a single long-wavelength-sensitive cone* type in the retina and therefore are potentially totally color blind. Hart and team's findings are published online in Springer's journal <M>Naturwissenschaften</M>.
"This new research on how sharks see may help to prevent attacks on humans and assist in the development of fishing gear that may reduce shark bycatch in long-line fisheries. Our study shows that contrast against the background, rather than colour per se, may be more important for object detection by sharks. This may help us to design long-line fishing lures that are less attractive to sharks as well as to design swimming attire and surf craft that have a lower visual contrast to sharks and, therefore, are less 'attractive' to them," said Prof. Hart.
Sharks are efficient predators and their evolutionary success is thought to be due in part to an impressive range of sensory systems, including vision. To date, it is unclear whether sharks have color vision, despite well-developed eyes and a large sensory brain area dedicated to the processing of visual information. In an attempt to demonstrate whether or not sharks have color vision, Hart and colleagues used a different technique -- microspectrophotometry -- to identify cone visual pigments in shark retinas and measure their spectral absorbance.
They looked at the retinas of 17 shark species caught in a variety of waters in both Queensland and Western Australia. Rod cells were the most common type of photoreceptor in all species. In ten of the 17 species, no cone cells were observed. However, cones were found in the retinae of 7 species of shark from three different families and in each case only a single type of long-wavelength-sensitive cone photoreceptor was present. Hart and team's results provide strong evidence that sharks possess only a single cone type, suggesting that sharks may be cone monochromats, and therefore potentially totally color blind.
The authors conclude: "While cone monochromacy on land is rare, it may be a common strategy in the marine environment. Many aquatic mammals ? whales, dolphins and seals ? also possess only a single, green-sensitive cone type. It appears that both sharks and marine mammals may have arrived at the same visual design by convergent evolution, in other words, they acquired the same biological trait in unrelated lineages."
*Note: There are two main types of photoreceptor cells in the retina of the eye. Rod cells are very sensitive to light and allow night vision. Cone cells also react to light but are less sensitive to it. Eyes with different spectral types of cone cells can distinguish different colors. Rod cells cannot tell colors apart.
Journal Reference:

Nathan Scott Hart, Susan Michelle Theiss, Blake Kristin Harahush, Shaun Patrick Collin. Microspectrophotometric evidence for cone monochromacy in sharks. <M>Naturwissenschaften</M>, 2011;



link to paper abstract provided below......

DOI: 10.1007/s00114-010-0758-8 (http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s00114-010-0758-8)



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Fiskadoro]

.....<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td dir="ltr">Our study shows that contrast against the background, rather than colour per se, may be more important for object detection by sharks. This may help us to design long-line fishing lures that are less attractive to sharks as well as to design swimming attire and surf craft that have a lower visual contrast to sharks and, therefore, are less 'attractive' to them....."

</td></tr></tbody></table>

.....the best colors for surface jigs not diving jigs are not bright colors but dark colors purple, black and dark green.... these colors make the sharpest silhouette or cast a better shadow (high contrast) and they are the easiest for makos that are hanging deep looking up for prey on the surface to see....a shark looking up sees your yak against a whiteish light blue back ground of water and sky, but a shark that sees you from the side sees your yak against a green or dark blue background.... the lures that dived deep got bit best if they were bright colors because the sharks were seeing them from the side not from underneath them.(high contrast)...Ultimately this is all about visibility, what get's seen due to high contrast is the most likely thing to get attacked or probed for scavenge....

Good stuff!!! That pretty much goes along with what I said in the beginning.

There is no doubt that sharks do not perceive color the way we do, the truth is few animals do. What they do definitely see is the amount of light reflected off the object, how it contrasts to the background light, and different colors reflect different spectrum of light or essentially different amounts of light in relation to various backgrounds.

Jim

[dos ballenas]

nice... it only took 11 minutes for your response... I was expecting less ;):you_rock: I can tell you have thought about this a lot...

A wise man once said "always cast your surface iron into the sun and then fan out from there until you see which angle is getting bit best"

I think the important thing is to learn as much as we can from shark attacks that occured in the past. Most occured in low visibility conditions.

[Fiskadoro]

nice... it only took 11 minutes for your response... I can tell you have thought about this a lot.......


Yeah well... Though that was from a recent article it was hardly a new concept.

Actually when I get some time though I will read up on their research.

Past studies have shown that sharks have both rod and cone photoreceptors in their eyes, which would suggest they could see color in some manner, but studies have shown that their vision seems to be set up to enhance the contrast of targets silhouetted against a background, or more technically that the cones are specialized for contrast over wide range color perception.

This specialization though is not anything new as I could find you papers about it that are more then fifty years old. That is why I kept talking about color in relation to how it contrasts to it's background. Sharks eyes key on contrast.

That said: I did find your post interesting. especially this part which is about roughly half of the sharks they studied.

"However, cones were found in the retinae of 7 species of shark from three different families and in each case only a single type of long-wavelength-sensitive cone photoreceptor was present. "

You may not know this but the long-wavelength colors that those specialized cone photoreceptors are keyed for are yellow orange and red.

So though ten out of seventeen sharks species they studied did not perceive color so much as contrast those that did had eyes set up for enhanced yellow orange an red perception, at least that is what I got on a quick glance over.

Jim

[surfnutnj]

Yeah well... Though that was from a recent article it was hardly a new concept.

Actually when I get some time though I will read up on their research.

Past studies have shown that sharks have both rod and cone photoreceptors in their eyes, which would suggest they could see color in some manner, but studies have shown that their vision seems to be set up to enhance the contrast of targets silhouetted against a background, or more technically that the cones are specialized for contrast over wide range color perception.

This specialization though is not anything new as I could find you papers about it that are more then fifty years old. That is why I kept talking about color in relation to how it contrasts to it's background. Sharks eyes key on contrast.

That said: I did find your post interesting. especially this part which is about roughly half of the sharks they studied.

[/FONT][/I]

You may not know this but the long-wavelength colors that those specialized cone photoreceptors are keyed for are yellow orange and red.

So though ten out of seventeen sharks species they studied did not perceive color so much as contrast those that did had eyes set up for enhanced yellow orange an red perception, at least that is what I got on a quick glance over.

Jim


sooooo.....anyone want to buy a RED Tarpon 120?

J/K...hopefully the tax man does not try to eat me while I am fishing. If he does at least I died doing what I love to do. (not driving to work) I always say that.:sifone:

[Hobie-Pedaller]

very interesting & thought provoking points & topics in this thread.

yum, yum, yellow..... i resemble that. :eek:

[dos ballenas]

very interesting indeed...

even more interesting in the resurfacing of the infamous Hobie-pedaler! :biggrinjester: that sure was a long breath hold :D

[Hobie-Pedaller]

.....the resurfacing of the infamous Hobie-pedaler! :biggrinjester: that sure was a long breath hold :D


unfortunately, i haven't been fishing, nor on any of the kayak boards since early last Summer.

i've been traveling in & out of state over past year, dealing with a death in family back in Texas, and the subsequent repair & sale of a house back there.

finally finished with all that above, and now ready to get back into the water for some fishing. just had to replace the sonar on my Yak, which had the transducer wiring fail last year, due to salt water corrosion. yak is all repaired and ready now. just bought the 2011 Fishing license. I'm finally all ready to get back out there again, within the next few days, but now we have rain coming for the next 3-5 days. :mad:

so NEXT WEEK, I will be back out on the water for sure. SD Bay at first, for a few trips, then I'll get out to LJ soon after that. Can't wait. WAY TOO LITTLE FISHING FOR ME IN PAST 2-3 YEARS.

[maui jim]

It's there world , were only passing thru.............:cool:

[DESTROYER]

I'm more afraid of Knotheads!

3634

What color do they like Jim? LOL

[cowboybill]

I saw a thing on Myth busters about this.

The color that came up as most attacked was either Yellow, or Silver!

Camo would probably not be seen from below unless close....A shadow is a shadow....

Now if you could put lights underneath to act like sunlight, now you are camo from below!!

Or a transparent/ translucent kayak?!?!

Cowboybill:cheers1:

[bubblehide]

I saw a thing on Myth busters about this.

The color that came up as most attacked was either Yellow, or Silver!

Camo would probably not be seen from below unless close....A shadow is a shadow....

Now if you could put lights underneath to act like sunlight, now you are camo from below!!

Or a transparent/ translucent kayak?!?!

Cowboybill:cheers1:


Bill, you may want to keep in mind that your looking down, while fish are looking up; and don't shadows have shape?

[wiredantz]

OKay so i just saw jaws after a long time... What we need is an oxygen tank and a gun, and a bigger boat.:D

[dos ballenas]

This specialization though is not anything new as I could find you papers about it that are more then fifty years old.

Jim


fifty years ago? lets see it.... I love papers from the good old days...

so have you learned anything you didnt already know from the replies to this post?

You should talk to Keith Poe...

[bubblehide]

fifty years ago? lets see it.... I love papers from the good old days...

so have you learned anything you didnt already know from the replies to this post?

You should talk to Keith Poe...


I think Keith and Jim are pretty good friends, but i could be mistaken.

[Fiskadoro]

fifty years ago? lets see it.... I love papers from the good old days...

I don't have time to look it up but Sam Gruber was I think the guy who was writing about this back in the sixties. Before him they thought that sharks mainly just fed by their sense of smell. If I remember correctly his definitive paper sharks and their vision was published in 1965, but he was pushing his theories back before that in something like 1961. There is probably some shit about him online somewhere. I first read about him in Scientific America or some other Science mag back when I was fishing Tigers, Hammers, and Bullsharks in the surf in Texas as a kid.

...so have you learned anything you didnt already know from the replies to this post?

Nope. Not really, I wish. The article you talked about just kinda backs up what I already knew, though I'm not sure you get that. On the bright side, I could say this thread has given me some insight in regards to you. :D

How about you... Have you learned anything?

You should talk to Keith Poe...

I've known Kieth for almost a couple decades now. I fished with him mainly back in the 90s. I designed and built his bait tank for his current boat, and some other gear, and even painted it for him. I know him pretty well, better then most as I've spent many hours on the water with him. Kieth and I have talked endless hours about every aspect of shark behavior that we could think of. I was already building shark jigs when I first met Kieth, so I'm sure the topic jig color and sharks came up more then once.

Kieth is Kieth: people either love him or sometimes hate him, but deep down he's got a good soul and he just loves to fish sharks. Ultimately when shark fishing really started taking off back in early 2000s Kieth and I took different paths. I used to post all kinds of info about them and just quit. If I'd been smart I would of written a book like Archer and made some money off it, but I basically just quit posting about them online, and giving out info about fishing them, because I was concerned that they were going to get over fished. Kieth felt that by posting he could direct peoples attitudes, and influence them into preserving the resource, I'm far more cynical when it comes to people then he is.

Jim

[Gigafish]

Great read.

[bus kid]

I've known Kieth for almost a couple decades now. I fished with him mainly back in the 90s. I designed and built his bait tank for his current boat, and some other gear, and even painted it for him. I know him pretty well, better then most as I've spent many hours on the water with him. Kieth and I have talked endless hours about every aspect of shark behavior that we could think of. I was already building shark jigs when I first met Kieth, so I'm sure the topic jig color and sharks came up more then once.

Kieth is Kieth: people either love him or sometimes hate him, but deep down he's got a good soul and he just loves to fish sharks. Ultimately when shark fishing really started taking off back in early 2000s Kieth and I took different paths. I used to post all kinds of info about them and just quit. If I'd been smart I would of written a book like Archer and made some money off it, but I basically just quit posting about them online, and giving out info about fishing them, because I was concerned that they were going to get over fished. Kieth felt that by posting he could direct peoples attitudes, and influence them into preserving the resource, I'm far more cynical when it comes to people then he is.

Jim

so Jim how is Keith, last I heard he was chasing swords off cat.

and yes I see that the post is waaayyy old. :D

[Fiskadoro]

so Jim how is Keith, last I heard he was chasing swords off cat.

I haven't seen or talked to Kieth in a long while. He's posting at Allcoast again and supposedly in the process of setting up a new boat a 31 Bertram.

I look at Kieth as kind of a internet fishing dinosaur. By that I mean that there were a group of us back in the late 90s that really put a lot of effort into trying to exchange fishing info publicly online, and as a result kind of ended up with sort of a weird internet fishing celebrity status, and it effected different people different ways.

Kieth loves to fish, but also wants to be an important figure in the fishing community. I think that might have a bit to do with his new obsessions: Deep dropping for swords and trying to catch a local salmon shark. At any rate he's got the sword bug, and has been fishing them deep, trying to find a way to consistently target and catch them.

I wish him luck on that one.

No-one I know has gotten the deep drop sword thing to work here in So Cal. We just do not have the gulf stream and structure they have in Florida, or the predictable upwellings they have in Venezuela to make it work. Years ago my buddy Mike and I used to joke that the three hardest fish to catch local are Swordfish Bigeye and Opah. Since then I've got a local Bigeye and he's got an Opah but though we've baited more then twenty some between us neither of us have got a local sword.

There was a good debate about the various methods that might actually work here over at BD last winter.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/fishing-chit-chat/387718-daytime-swordfish-socal-13.html#post2550594

Worth a read if your into swordfish, but you might want to note that no-one there claims to know of a way to consistently target them.

Jim

[bus kid]

There was a good debate about the various methods that might actually work here over at BD last winter.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/fishing-chit-chat/387718-daytime-swordfish-socal-13.html#post2550594

Worth a read if your into swordfish, but you might want to note that no-one there claims to know of a way to consistently target them.

Jim

Thanks Jim, yeah he was taking a beating over at bd I saw the post when it first went up and the subsequent cartoons and all. I used to see him in that stealthy boat all the time blasting out of LB harbour. One day hes going to figure it out (if he hasn't already and is just keeping it on the down low) Innovation eventually comes through failure, nothing but best wishes for him.

[Rabac3898]

http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_20959299/shark-sighted-off-marina-state-beach

[Old Man in the Sea]

Another shark safety tip....if you paint your kayak bottom cammo for safety and then you probably do not want to hang your bloody black booties and legs overboard after the shark follows your fish back to the boat? Just sayin'

[maui jim]

Well said.. Ive seen sharks twice in30 years of surfing Oside and Santa Barbara, its there world and im passing through.
Ihave also been in close contact with bears and a Mountain Lion while hunting in deep woods and forests. And I dont like being stalked either way, but being in the outdoors there is no betta life, So enjoy it before you get too old. No ka oi.
:cool:

[Smokeybear]

Interesting old thread. Who's watching shark week, I was watching shark week about the two surfers killed in Vanderberg one in 2010 and the other one 2012, also that missing firefighter that went kayak fishing off Gaviota beach Coincidence I don't think so.

Let's face it the state is protecting a predator like th GWS and since the 1990s there are more sharks and they found lots of food in Socal and humans are not a threat to them anymore.

About kayak and colors I think it's the shape not the color most surfers are wearing black and riding white surfboards and from below they look like seals, do kayaks look like slow dying dolphin?
Great thread:cheers1:

[tacmik]

Actually, the color of the yak doesn't matter. It's the motion and vibrations that the Hobie fins put out that trigger the shark attacks.

[Melinda3]

Essay writing is not easy for everyone if this is a real torture for you and you desperately need help to get your A grade for this task, this source is indispensable to visit and find out the depository of essay examples you can choose any as a model http://bigpaperwriter.com/blog/the-olor-of-water-essay

[MITCHELL]

The poles are light get out and vote your last chance:luxhello:

[MITCHELL]

Lj....sunrise

[tacmik]

always thought that sharks were color blind, only saw in black and white. Or was that my dog? Also as to the color red, thought that that was the first color to go in the spectrum in the water.

[Sheephead]

My buddy listens to house music via portable speaker and see's a shark every outing. Don't listen to music and you'll almost never see one.

[MITCHELL]

IMMIGRANT......song We are your overlords....

[SoCalEDC]

We have 10 more years of data since this post was created and recreational kayaking/kayak fishing is probably more popular now than it ever was in the past. With all the more data to analyze, has the evidence shifted to show that color of kayak does or doesn't matter?

Do shark stripes on the bottom of the hull work if they are painted in a way that they break up the sihlouette and don't look like a caution sign?

[SoCalEDC]

https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/great-white-color-question/

Very interesting. Bed time for me. Maybe someone else will find some more info for a proper revival of this ever relevant topic.

[JohnMckroidJr]

https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/great-white-color-question/

Very interesting. Bed time for me. Maybe someone else will find some more info for a proper revival of this ever relevant topic.


Thanks for bringing up this unread thread and sharing the article by Paul Lebowitz. I have always gone with "yum yum" yellow as my biggest fear is getting hit by a derelict boater. Plenty of them off SE Florida. In my 6 years offshore I have encountered plenty of hammerhead and bull sharks and have yet to have a yak bite. On two occasions I have had hammerheads hit the yak, but in both cases, I Believe the attempt was directed towards the Solas reflective tape, and my papaya kayak hull.