Question on handling BSB [Archive] - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

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FISHIONADO

02-10-2011, 10:53 AM

bubblehide

02-10-2011, 11:37 AM

"The definition of "take" is to "hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill an animal, or to attempt to do so" (California Code of Regulations Title 14, Section 1.80). So, by catching the fish, reeling it in, taking it off the hook and holding it up for a picture, your friend has "taken" a prohibited species. He also did not release it immediately as required."

I have hooked and brought Black Sea Bass to the surface; which clearly is not "take" as there was no intent to target that species. IMHO, holding a fish for a picture does not meet the F&G definition of "take' either, as we intend to release the fish.

IMHO the concern here is in the fish surviving. Simply catching and reeling a fish to the surface (although legal) stresses the fish, any handling may stress the fish more. Using needles can introduce bacteria...

Yet I'm not sure of the intent of your post, were you asking a question? Giving your opinion? attempting to inform us?

Jimmyz123

02-10-2011, 11:54 AM

I know a guy who actually will target them and catch them, take pictures, and doesn't care what anyone says to him about breaking the law. I have read many times that once you realize the fish is a Black Sea Bass, you should cut the line and take less risk of hurting the fish more. Some DFG officers will interpret the law how they feel is right, some will nail you the moment they see you touching the fish, some will say, "Sure, take a pic, but you better let it go." However if they know that you have a BSB on the line they will watch everything that happens. Would I love to catch one, sure, do I want to risk one killing over because I wanted that photo of one, No.

I will not be shocked if within 5 years there is a lift or a catch limit placed on the BSB and they are open target again. I can see them saying a 1 fish limit per angler or boat or something. Their numbers are coming back and I do see them being taken off the do not keep list. However the way our DFG does things it may never happen also.

Do some google searches on that subject and you'll find a lot of information about it.

bubblehide

02-10-2011, 11:57 AM

Jimmy, I don't see a one fish limit, as I think that could decimate the population in no time at all; But I could see a one fish per year limit, and I'd welcome it.

chris138

02-10-2011, 11:59 AM

<META name=ProgId content=Word.Document><META name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12"><META name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 12"><LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Chornback%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Chornback%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Chornback%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE> Answer: Giant (black) sea bass and other no-take species cannot be retained and must be released immediately. Therefore, holding the fish out of the water for a picture is unlawful. The best case scenario for the fish would be to cut the line while it is still in the water.
<O:p

This might not be the best case scenerio for releasing a BSB. If the fish is caught at depth (greater than say 66' and especially 100' or more), the gasses contained in various cavities will expand to triple their volume at the surface. These fish often need assistance in equilibrating before they can be released. If you just cut the hook off, you might actually be decreasing its chances of survival. For those with mirage drive you can just hold it by the lip and drag it around in the water until it farts and burps up all the excess gas. For paddlers its a little more difficult. The idea is to keep water running over its gills while the fish is decompressing. The fish will swim away when it's ready, until then it will just lay there not too stoked on life.

FISHIONADO

02-10-2011, 12:00 PM

bubblehide

02-10-2011, 12:03 PM

Chris, good point. I've also seen the roll in the line, getting all tangled, and requiring "handling" to cut them lose. They would have simply had no chance at survival otherwise.

Jimmyz123

02-10-2011, 12:04 PM

Jimmy, I don't see a one fish limit, as I think that could decimate the population in no time at all; But I could see a one fish per year limit, and I'd welcome it.

They would have to sell a report card thing or something like that, and I could see that happening.

bubblehide

02-10-2011, 12:05 PM

I just got the email press release email and thought I would pass it on, I recognize their are a lot of new people on the board that may be unaware. The person who asked the DFG that question was a dip shit because he thought he should puncture the bladder. It is so easy to educate your self. :-)

Thanks for clarifying that, your title made me think you had a question in there somewhere. Yet, I don't think there is a clear cut way (one size fits all) of responsibly releasing them; some knowledge and common sense can go a long way.

bubblehide

02-10-2011, 12:06 PM

They would have to cell a report card thing or something like that, and I could see that happening.

I think you read my mind.

dorado50

02-10-2011, 02:13 PM

Lets see, there are at least 180,00 (calif)fishing licenses issued each year??? One BSB taken per angler per year.... yea that math looks good to me. Just release the fish and make sure it swims away healthy.

Iceman

02-10-2011, 04:45 PM

Good to see some clarification on this..........I agree with it 100% Why risk injuring a fish so you can have a photo of it on your lap. The sportboat guys that boat them for pix drive me crazy.

dsafety

02-10-2011, 04:50 PM

Lets see, there are at least 180,00 (Calif)fishing licenses issued each year??? One BSB taken per angler per year.... yea that math looks good to me. Just release the fish and make sure it swims away healthy.

I would be fine with what Dorado suggests since the BSB is such a majestic fish that takes many years to grow to full size. On the other hand, some say that the BSB population has recovered to the point where they have almost achieved "pest" status in some locations.

I am far from an expert on this subject but my thinking is that if it is ever determined that the BSB population can withstand some fishing pressure, maybe the best way to approach the management would be to have a lottery for a special permit which would allow some lucky fishers to catch and keep one fish of a particular size or larger. Kind of like what they do with hunting permits for some formally endangered animals.

The bigger problem in my view is that most people who catch a big BSB from deep water have no idea how to safely release the fish. I have read the recommended procedures but have never had to practice the technique. The only BSB I ever caught was a 10 pounder who quickly swam away after I removed the hook. I am hopeful that if I ever hook a big one, someone with a little experience is in the neighborhood.

Bob

T Bone

02-10-2011, 05:11 PM

There was a video of this Jack-wagon catching a huge BSB on balboa pier on dragging it on the beach to die.I heard he went to court because someone called we-tip but I never heard what happened.If anyone could post that video or follow up that would be cool.

roby

02-10-2011, 06:10 PM

yaknewb

02-10-2011, 06:16 PM

Yea i saw that vid it was sad i cant believe no one stoped him.

taggermike

02-10-2011, 08:18 PM

I haven't seen this on a kayak forum but the photos of the little, sub 100 lb, BSB with a gaff through thier bottom jaws held up by some grinning yahoo really chap me. A gaff shouldn't be used on a no take fish. Just take a pic of the fish in the water at boat side if you have to docunent your catch. mike

wade

02-11-2011, 07:27 AM

i heard that in florida the f&g issues tickets to people on facefart, myspace ect who hold goliath groupers out of water, even if released)..

(video your fight & it will allow the best chance of survival Versus wasting precious recovery time fussin with a still shot/photo op..)

Ps PELLYS has the BEST Black Sea Bass sandwich in SD.
ask for it toasted & teriyaki style...
Pelly's Fish Market & Cafe
7110 Avenida Encinas # 101
Carlsbad, CA 92011
(760) 431-8454

pps, how hypocritical is california for placing a species on an endangered list, but allows it to be consumed on california soil is beyond me?...
it sure tastes AMAZING though..:eating:
Ill take 2, Please!:drool5:

T Bone

02-11-2011, 07:32 AM

That guy is a total kook and a liar.

Fox news fact: 10 million people fish for "Black Bass"...

T-Bone Fact: The producer or whoever proofed that clip doesnt fish and preffers Tofu...

dorado50

02-11-2011, 07:44 AM

Problem is most people believe what they read, especially from the libral press. Not me!.. Don't become a member of the "liars and misinformation" Club...its bad mojo....:the_finger:

mermaidhunter

02-11-2011, 08:01 AM

dorado50

02-11-2011, 11:33 AM

Can't fault you for your efforts:luxhello: Perhaps an urgent call to 911 would have resolved that mess....

Jimmyz123

02-11-2011, 11:40 AM

Is this the video?

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4000167/big-catch-lands-fisherman-in-hot-water

The dude's website:

http://savetheseabass.com/

From what I have read, it seems like the guy was trying to keep the fish and was playing dumb about not knowing the rules, so he would not get in trouble....

I've heard it said many times in court that not knowing the laws is not an excuse. If you have a rod and reel in your hands you better know the regs, or have a way of knowing them, Regs book, or don't go fishing. I carry my regs book with me all the time in the event I am questioned, need to know what I just caught and it's regs, or and it gives me peace of mind. I hope this guy was fined.

roby

03-19-2011, 07:18 PM

Link:

http://www.dailypilot.com/news/education/tn-dpt-0317-fish-20110317,0,6691523.story

The two fishermen who hauled a massive black sea bass to shore at the Balboa Pier pleaded guilty Wednesday and were sentenced to 120 hours of community service.
They had faced up to six months in jail for catching the endangered species. Prosecutors had charged (http://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dpt-0618-brady-20100617%2C0%2C6981058.story) the two with misdemeanor possession of a black sea bass after they were videotaped with the fish, and their images landed on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=Bzw5LDkewqk%26feature=player_embedded).
Orange County Commissioner Richard E. Pacheco agreed to the plea bargain, which reduced their violation to an infraction. Prosecutors objected to the plea bargain, according to Orange County district attorney's office spokeswoman Farrah Emami.
Jon Apothaker of Valley Village was fishing on the pier while John Brady of Huntington Beach was fishing below the pier in a small boat in January 2010 when
Apothaker got a bite. It was a giant black sea bass, more than 5 feet long and weighing between 140 and 200 pounds.
Apothaker struggled with the fish for about an hour until his line broke. Then Brady offered to help from below if Apothaker would agree to give up half the fish. He agreed, and Brady helped by towing the fish close to shore. Apothaker swam out, and brought it to the beach by hand.
There, he posed with the giant bass before releasing it.
Apothaker said that once he learned that the fish was endangered, he and Brady tried to save it. Apothaker said he massaged its gills for up to 45 minutes trying to resuscitate it until it finally swam away weakly.
Days later, the bass washed up on dead on the shore, authorities said. The two men claimed there was no proof it was the same fish.
Giant sea bass can live to be 100 years old, and the fish they caught was estimated to be 20 to 25 years old. They have been a critically endangered species (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/20795/0) since 1996.
In what he said was an effort to educate anglers about the black sea bass, Apothaker began making and selling T-shirts with warnings to not gaff the creatures. He also created http://www.savetheseabass.com.
Apothaker's attorney, Christopher McCann, said the outreach effort may have helped his client.
"I think the judge was persuaded by that," McCann said.
He will serve his community service hours with the United Pier and Shore Anglers of California (http://upsac.org/), a nonprofit that educates pier and shore anglers in fish ecology and conservation.

bus kid

03-19-2011, 07:29 PM

From a Felony to an infraction,:rolleyes: but God help the first person to get popped in a mpa.... if it's me I printing up shirts with warnings that say "dont fish the mpas" and a web site called "savethempa.com" as soon as BWE posts my bail. thanks in advance guys. :biggrinjester:

T Bone

03-19-2011, 08:40 PM

I think the guy should have done a 90 days.If the judge was a fisherman he would have seen through the Bullshit.

GregAndrew

03-19-2011, 11:01 PM

If you have a paddle kayak with a bait tank you may be able to run the hose from the pump into the mouth to allow the fish to breathe while it decompresses. It may also help with a tail hooked Thresher that is exhausted too.

Jimmyz123

03-20-2011, 05:39 AM

I was there that day and told him 15+ times that he had to release that bsb safely and quickly, alot of fishermen on the pier were telling him the same thing, but other people on the pier were cheering him on. even going as far where they stuck 2 pier gaffs in her jaw, i went up to the crowd as they were trying to pull her up on the pier and i grabbed the pier gaff rope to stop them and told them that its illegal and they had to let her go. but they didnt care at all and they carried on. a private boater came by and dragged her in and the mob beached her. it was a horrible scene, my heart broke the next day when i found out she died and floated down to dana.

in the end he got away with it.

I also believe there is a number on our fishing licenses to call if we suspect someone is poaching or anything else that needs to be reported to the DFG. I've never called it, but I have voiced an opinion to someone once about the fish she caught.

As far as BSBs are concerned, I have a friend that will target ares that he as "accidentally" hooked them in SD bay, he catches, photos, and releases. However each time he posts photos, on a different fishing site, it starts a HUGE debate as to how wrong that was. He loves it though.

Until they change the regs on these fish I feel that if you realize that you have one hooked, don't fight it any longer so you can get a photo, cut the line and let it fight its way back down. I have known people who have tried to deflate the bladders and they have actually done more harm than good. So if you don't know what you are doing with them don't try.

Vikingj

03-20-2011, 09:56 PM

Regarding BSB caught at Balboa pier last year. The 2 fisherman could have (should have?) done jail time but plea bargained down to 120 hrs community service and $75 fine. Got off pretty easy, don't you think? See http://www.ocregister.com/news/fish-292575-apothaker-brady.html?plckOnPage=2