Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge
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Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge (http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/index.php)
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-   -   Kayak Sonar Discussion (http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/showthread.php?t=31892)

jbl_91762 09-17-2017 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheephead (Post 286038)
Great thread idea Chris! I love how your naming your sonar marks too!



For the first two pictures I'd like to welcome everyone to the promised land.

The third picture is a good example of how bait reacts to a school of yellowtail. Even if your not marking yt if you see bait behavingg this way you can tell if fosh are around.

Lastly, the 4th pic shows a single yt swimming through a small school of red crab. Yes my settings suck! For yhe 4th pic.

Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.

jorluivil 09-17-2017 07:50 PM
This should be a sticky..............in the funny section.

oredith 09-18-2017 10:34 AM
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
to
"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"

I ask because i couldn't really make heads or tails of what my old (came with the yak) hook-4x was telling me. there were no friendly eyebrow shapes. I was primarily using the FF as a depth finder, and just to see what was under me (soft vs. hard surface).

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one? or should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?

ful-rac 09-18-2017 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith (Post 286119)
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
If you mean on a scale of 1 to 10...10.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith (Post 286119)

"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith (Post 286119)

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one?
Yes, Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith (Post 286119)
should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?
No.

jimmyjones 09-18-2017 05:30 PM
Hook 5 settings
 
What is a good starting point for settings for hook Five for local Waters 60 to150 ft thank you very much

Sheephead 09-18-2017 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith (Post 286119)
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
to
"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"

I ask because i couldn't really make heads or tails of what my old (came with the yak) hook-4x was telling me. there were no friendly eyebrow shapes. I was primarily using the FF as a depth finder, and just to see what was under me (soft vs. hard surface).

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one? or should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?
I'd agree with color being very important. Before I went out with "The Darkhorse" I had my color down very low and although I wasn't exactly sure what to look for at the time low color definitely didn't help. Now I run 90-88% colorline (depending on the day) and it's amazing how much easier it is to identify fish.

chris138 09-18-2017 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ful-rac (Post 286136)
If you mean on a scale of 1 to 10...10.




No.



Yes, Yes.



No.
Agree on all counts!

chris138 09-18-2017 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveooo (Post 286037)
That was LJ, out in the sandy squid grounds. We caught yoyo YT off it.

One sonar setting that is worth putting into the discussion is Sonar Scroll Speed. It doesn’t change what you see on the meter, but it does change how it appears on the meter. I find setting a faster scroll speed will give me more of a real time picture of what is under the boat. It also gives more defined, and longer individual fish arches. Our kayaks move relatively slow, and sometimes we are chasing fish that move relatively fast (YT). I think of the slower scroll speed as the history channel, or “old news”, where sometimes what is shown on the meter is long gone, but it just hasn’t left the screen yet.

The best time to experiment with this setting is when making bait. With the new chirp units, adjusting scroll speed to a higher setting can make a bait ball go from looking like a cloud, to showing hundreds of individual tiny arches. IMO thats too much clutter for just making bait, but turning up the scroll speed also does the same for a school of YT, turning that mess of squiggly spaghetti hanging out under the kayak into more defined individual fish.

Fast scroll speed is my preference when yoyo fishing. When its there, its there. When dropper loop fishing or fishing for structure oriented fish, I’ll turn scroll speed back to normal, so I don’t blink and miss anything or leave an area prematurely. Normal or slower scroll speed is also good for giving a little more history of what the fish is doing under the kayak, e.g. showing a YT dive bombing your bait. Its really a matter of preference of how you want the fish & screen to look.

*disclaimer* I’ve caught many more fish through dumb luck than I have by using my sonar.

Good thread :cheers1:
Thanks for the info, and for joining in the conversation! As I said, I can be completely full of it! :)

chris138 09-18-2017 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjones (Post 286139)
What is a good starting point for settings for hook Five for local Waters 60 to150 ft thank you very much
Hello jimmyjones,

Please refer to post #19. Start there and post your questions or screen shots after you have tried those settings.

Sheephead 09-18-2017 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbl_91762 (Post 286066)
Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.
Pics 1 and 2 are the promised lands. Fish you drop on and instantly get bit by.
Pic 3 was a really cool experience. Yes, you can see my bait being dropped down towards the school of feeding YT but the pattern was so specific this day that it was hard to get bit. The yellow/orange dense dots on the bottom is bait, in this case red crab. On the left side of the picture you can see the school expanding into mid water column and rising up off the bottom as soon as the YT were out of range. The crab were being pushed off the bottom by a school of rockfish, halibut, bass, you name it. As soon as the YT came through again the crab school would get pushed back to the bottom (you can clearly see the school of YT swimming above the school of crab densely packed on the bottom). Towards the right end of the picture you can see the school of YT swimming directly into the suspended school of crab that wasn't quick enough to get back towards the bottom.

Im guessing the reason the YT were able to separate the school is because the crabs don't have lateral lines and because they were the furthest away from where the Yt entered the school they had less time to react to their presence.

chris138 09-18-2017 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbl_91762 (Post 286066)
Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.
Thanks JBL. Doesn't matter to me if it's sticky or not... as long as people want to keep discussing sonar theories and application, the thread will stick around.

Here's your rabbit hole, should you chose to take the blue pill...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q9izOwp1aU&t=4749s

Johnny Hirn 09-18-2017 08:56 PM
I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.

surfishiron 09-18-2017 10:10 PM
If you dont know than now you know
 
1 Attachment(s)
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380

ful-rac 09-19-2017 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron (Post 286165)
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380


Taking in account your depth, I would say most likely it's not yellowtail. It's quite possible it might be depending upon the location you are fishing. You have your FF setting on Medium Chirp and are in shallow water so everything is going to be a bit stretched out, making objects appear to be larger than they would be on High Chirp. Also a wider cone angle covering more area thus displaying more information or more objects in the same amount of space. To me if I saw that on my FF at this current time in the area I fish, I would interpret that more than likely as Bonita, mixed with those little yellows that have been around lately, chasing around bait.

Providing key information might help...

Where were you fishing?
What kind of structure is nearby?
When was the screen shot taken?
Did you catch anything?

You never really can know with absolute certainty of what your seeing on your fish finder unless you are actually catching what you are seeing. And even then the other fish or objects you are seeing on screen can be something completely different from what you are catching. With local knowledge of an area, where certain species are known to congregate, this information can help to narrow down what your seeing on screen can likely be or likely not be.

chris138 09-19-2017 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hirn (Post 286162)
I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.
Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.

chris138 09-19-2017 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron (Post 286165)
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
for sure that's some bait balled up on the left... but not necessarily being predated on. Could just be really tight feeding on zooplankton. Definitely some faster, harder bodied fish cruising through there, but I would tend to agree with Tony that they don't look yellow for how shallow you are. could be you are catching the edge of a couple bigger fish swimming in the periphery of the cone. Settings look good though, other than being sideways;) your return has good target separation.

Johnny Hirn 09-19-2017 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris138 (Post 286174)
Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.
Thanks for the help!

ful-rac 09-19-2017 10:08 AM
Go ahead take a crack at it!
 
What could this be...?

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...824000_iOS.png

GregAndrew 09-19-2017 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron (Post 286165)
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
I would also agree that they do not look like large predators. The two schools of bait are different species on left and right. Left side I would bet are either Sardines or Herring. Right side I would bet on Spanish, but there are several other species that might fit that bill. Certainly not Greenies (color would be similar to the Left side and bigger marks), although the predators could be the larger versions of those.

Denis_Ruso 09-20-2017 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron (Post 286165)
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
I'll take a crack at it. Looking like a baitball on the beginning then looks to be a more like school of blue perch that hang out in the kelp at LJ. Not looking like YT marks to me, arches are too small and movement is too scattered.

Denis_Ruso 09-20-2017 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hirn (Post 286162)
I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.
Someone else could chime in but when I used plummers putty for my previous install, it helped to warm it up with a blowdryer/heat gun to peel off. You may have luck with the same method removing goop.

Fishing619 09-20-2017 06:20 PM
I'm looking for a new FF around $500 to $600 for a PA14
what do you recommend? I have look and they are a lot of
Options it get overwhelm thanks.

ful-rac 09-20-2017 07:25 PM
Lowrance HDS 7, Gen2-Gen3

surfishiron 09-20-2017 08:32 PM
Thanks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ful-rac (Post 286173)
Taking in account your depth, I would say most likely it's not yellowtail. It's quite possible it might be depending upon the location you are fishing. You have your FF setting on Medium Chirp and are in shallow water so everything is going to be a bit stretched out, making objects appear to be larger than they would be on High Chirp. Also a wider cone angle covering more area thus displaying more information or more objects in the same amount of space. To me if I saw that on my FF at this current time in the area I fish, I would interpret that more than likely as Bonita, mixed with those little yellows that have been around lately, chasing around bait.

Providing key information might help...

Where were you fishing?
What kind of structure is nearby?
When was the screen shot taken?
Did you catch anything?

You never really can know with absolute certainty of what your seeing on your fish finder unless you are actually catching what you are seeing. And even then the other fish or objects you are seeing on screen can be something completely different from what you are catching. With local knowledge of an area, where certain species are known to congregate, this information can help to narrow down what your seeing on screen can likely be or likely not be.
First of all thank you to all that replied this is valuable info that i appreciate from the community. To answer Tony's questions I was fishing my super secret spot you probly don't know it is call La Jolla. Named by the Germans in 1903, there was structure nearby roughly 100-200 yards, screenshot was very recent, I caught several bonies and one YT. I never thought about depth when is came to sonar readings and or my settings in shallow vs deeper water. Appreciate the input from those more experienced than myself. Also never thought of using a different chirp setting based on my depth due to the fact that I usually fisht 70+ to 200. Once again thank you and I cant wait to bring more screen shots to this threat.

jorluivil 09-20-2017 10:10 PM
This is all I see on my screen.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
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.
.
Any guess what it could be?

http://www.retroland.com/wp-content/...le-Command.jpg

MITCHELL 09-27-2017 10:15 PM
It ain't a bluefin but
 
2 Attachment(s)
:doh::doh:

MITCHELL 09-27-2017 10:22 PM
This is what I see.....
 
1 Attachment(s)
On my fish finder.....

INGRIDSDAD 09-28-2017 07:27 AM
I recently upgraded to the HDS7 gen 3, has anyone messed with the total scan transducer? Any advantage over the 50/200?

chris138 09-30-2017 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INGRIDSDAD (Post 286564)
I recently upgraded to the HDS7 gen 3, has anyone messed with the total scan transducer? Any advantage over the 50/200?
I personally have not... but I've read up on it and apparently it's bitchin. Its one for the first consumer grade sidescan transducers on the market... and definitely one of the best for rec fishers. The thing can allow you to generate 3D bathymetric maps of the sea floor!

Aside from all of the awesomeness of the total scan, it comes with one huge drawback for kayak. In order for the side scan to work, the transducer must sit proud of the bottom of your boat. It has to be able to see out to the sides, so it cant be recessed into the transducer scupper. That's fine on the water, but when you go to launch or land on sand (or worse yet rocks or a boat launch) the transducer will scrape on the ground. Scratching up the surface of the ducer is bad and will mess with its precision.

If I were gonna try the total scan, I would go with a boom arm over the scupper mount. Then you could just pull it out the of the water for launch and landing. :cheers1:

chris138 09-30-2017 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 286290)
This is all I see on my screen.

.
.
Any guess what it could be?

http://www.retroland.com/wp-content/...le-Command.jpg
WOPR... shall we play a game? How about tick tack toe? :D

MITCHELL 10-11-2017 02:09 PM
When your flat fall.....
 
2 Attachment(s)
Tangles with your sabiki rig.....

chris138 01-21-2020 09:29 AM
Bump to 2020! Here's some shots from the end of 2019, hope your sounders are dialed in the new decade!

https://i.imgur.com/TJ1k6vO.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/izh3n9G.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/Zqbd92u.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/qoQRVQs.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/DYcEMFE.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/5BSgno7.jpg?1

acorad 01-21-2020 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris138 (Post 304525)
Bump to 2020! Here's some shots from the end of 2019, hope your sounders are dialed in the new decade!

I think yours is broken, it makes everything look like slug YTs.

Newguyhere 03-06-2020 08:51 PM
Does anyone have setting suggestions for hook 2 5 splitshot if I'm 100+ feet. Could not seem to figure it out. At all.

Newguyhere 03-06-2020 08:54 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Pics

TJones 03-07-2020 07:21 AM
something is wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguyhere (Post 305200)
Pics
:confused:. that does not look good at all. you got some sore of interference. bad wire, bad ground, maybe bad transducer? try running demo and see what happens if that unit has this option? check your transducer plug and make sure it is seated well. no matter what you did with settings, your screen should not have that fuzzy bar. in another thread you had mentioned that you were loosing picture after a certain depth. check your depth settings and leave it on auto. you it is set at manual of 100' and you go out of range, the unit will go haywire.

Newguyhere 03-07-2020 08:25 AM
It's just weird bc it seems to work fine under 100 feet.

chris138 05-01-2020 01:37 PM
Did you ever get this figured out?

Newguyhere 05-03-2020 11:24 PM
I did not. From what I've read though the cheaper lowrance units are hit or miss. I only paid 80 bucks for it after rebates and sale.
I ended up upgrading to a Garmin echomap plus 64cv.

chris138 05-04-2020 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguyhere (Post 306510)
I did not. From what I've read though the cheaper lowrance units are hit or miss. I only paid 80 bucks for it after rebates and sale.
I ended up upgrading to a Garmin echomap plus 64cv.
Right on. I've heard similar things. The kayak life is probably the harshest environment for a sonar. Often its corrosion on the connector pins or power supply terminals that causes problems, but also the power supply fuse can give you issues too. Ever since I had like three of those damn fuses corrode I wont even install it anymore.

You will have to let us know how you like your Garmin, I have heard good things.


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