Heavier line than reel is rated for?
 

With the exception of loading a braid / spectra backing do you spool your reel(s) with heavier line than they're rated for?

I have yet to see a reel rated for a specific line, they are rather rated for specific line capacity and drag.

Generally most people use a drag rating that is about 1/3 the lines breaking rating/strength while still having free spool, e.g., if I have a reel with 20 pounds of drag at full drag (with free spool) I might use 60 pound line, anything under that I would want to reduce the max drag. Any heavier line and I might want to consider increasing the max drag setting.

Another example or two: If I am using 6 pound line, I would want a 2 pound max drag setting. If I am using 15 pound line, I would want a 5 pound max drag setting...

The whole idea is that you pay attention to the wear of you line (it will wear) but don't lose fish unless you missed something (and you will miss wear unless you constantly change your top shots)

Does that make sense?

Sure, but total yardage is compromised...

I guess it depends on what you're trying to do and where? You wouldn't want to go fish 100# bluefin with a Penn 500 just because you filled it with 80#. Although you might catch some fish, you probably want to make things easier on yourself with a more balanced rig. For me, it all starts with the bait. If I'm using a small sardine, I'd choose the lightest circle hook that will help the sardine swim best, the lightest line that I care to get hooked on, and then the rod that will help me cast the sardine. I'd want enough line capacity to handle a long run (at least 200 yards). There are other times that heavier line is great for either flotation or just abrasion resistance like fishing jigs or topwater baits. But do whatever it takes man, part of the fun out there is figuring it out for yourself. If you got a clever idea, don't be afraid to give it a try. Lot's of guys miss the chance to try something new because they're afraid they won't catch fish. I've done the same thing lots of times and not caught fish!

Good points..
I was always taught to stay within the reel rating and I'm not really sure why. I remember pops saying: "If you hook something real huge that you know you have no hope of landing you can always crank down the drag and break him off."
But I think I'd rather take my chances of getting spooled and be able to man-handle bigs out of kelp or reef with heavier line.

Well considering a TLD15 is rated for 15 pound or a international Penn 30sw is rated for 30 pound yep I'd say I have been doing it for decades. Ever fish eighty with a Penn50SW? and how many people actually only fish fifteen on a tld15 or 20 on a tld20?

There is not set rule but the key is finding a reel that has the strength gearing and drag to fish what you want to fish with it. Some you can beef up some fish stock, it's all ultimately about how they were built in the first place.

With spectra I'm now fishing forty on reels that would of been considered small bass reels a decade ago but they are beefed up to handle the heavier line and loads.

Jim

Personally I like reels that hold between 300 and four hundred yards of line because I fish offshore and have had fish run that much line off a reel in deep water. That said for kayaking since the fish can pull you around capacity is not as big a deal.

If you want man-handle bigs out of kelp you need to go to spectra, it's the only way to go because mono will not cut kelp like spectra.

Jim

Whats the worse thing that could happen if the strength of your line is greater than the maximum drag pressure your reel can apply; your drag slips. If this is a problem it can be solved with a better reel. Unlike a reel a rod can break if you pull beyond its capacity, thats why they are rated. The only ratings I see on reels is for line capicity although the better ones will tell you the maximum drag pressure they can apply. I would not worry too much about the strength of the line, the most important thing is how the system works.

For any thing on the surface or kelp beds I use 65lb braid min 200 yards with a top shot of 40 or 20 lb flouro. on my Daiwa 2 speed is John Brown 250 yrds with a 20 top shot of 25 yards. my 300 classic has 200 izor and 20 lb flouro.
jig master and prochallanger has 350 izor braid.. mostly used for rock fishing.

I know I sound like a total cheap ass but when you need to spool 5 reels with spectra it can get expensive...a whole lot more expensive than mono obviously. I've never fished spectra...does it literally hack through kelp? What if you're fishing a 30 - 40 foot top-shot / leader of fluoro in 30 - 45 feet of water?
Sorry for the stupidity..I'm just trying to understand.

one thing about spectra is that you really never have to change it out. it will last a very long time. so, you fill up a reel 3, 4, or 5 times with mono and suddenly it's not such an expensive option.

there's two ways to view spectra: as extra backing and as the main line.

by running mostly spectra with 50yds of mono on top, you are fishing mono, but get alot more line cap, can change out the mono more often (you waste 3/4th the spool otherwise) and vary your line on the reel more, like stripping off the 50yds of 20# and running say 30# if needed. it also allows you (which is the best feature) to fish a heavier line weight in a smaller reel. so you can fish a sealine 20 with 20lb or even 25lb. straight mono I'll get at best 200yds of 20# mono on that reel, but with 40# spectra backing, I'll get 350yds +. it will do an easy 9-10 lbs drag (way over for 20#) and it's super light and casts like a dream. for larger reels, run 65# spectra.

as a main line, there are some places where it's a must. I throw the slugs and the other weedless lures in the kelp. can't do it with mono. need spectra to cut through. yes it does. or the bigger fish that hang in the kelp (like wsb, or so I've heard, as I know nothing about them!!). and for the slugs it's necessary due to the technique. or boiler rock calico. you need the no stretch part to pull them out.

as a main line, it's necessary for the deep water jigging too. also, alot of guys love it because you feel EVERYTHING. alot of the guys targeting halibut love it for that. but you gotta adjust your rod and reel accordingly. softer rods to absorb the shock as spectra doesn't stretch. also, back off on the drag a bit.

go out and drop $200 on spectra to fill up all your reels at once? no, probably a little overkill. but over time, and part of it is the quality of tackle itself, convert to spectra. it's a long run thing. I wouldn't fill up a penn 500 with spectra, kinda like putting racing rims and spoilers on a minivan.

as for drags, what I kinda like to do (and I've upgraded almost all my main reels to greased carbon fiber, which gives more and waaay smoother drag) is go no more than 70% of a reel's drag rating. then that let's me figure where I can reasonably fish a reel. sealine 20's run 15lbs max, so I say 10lb is the max I want to fish. which means I can go up to 30lb line. not an ideal 30lb reel, but about as good a 20# reel as going. 6-8 lbs drag easy without any binding or load issues, light, strong, casts great, and over 400yds of line. not too bad.

it has taken me a while to really migrate to and appreciate spectra. I love izor and sufix. but that's just me.

Killer information...thanks for taking the time. I guess there's a reason you guys all swear by spectra. I'm just a little confused about the fluoro or mono top shot.
I've only fished from my yak a few times so far and I haven't fished in more that 60' of water and mostly in 30-40 at Dana Point kelp. If you're running a 40' top shot and a little calico runs you around the kelp how does the braid get a chance to hack the kelp?
Then, if you break off your top shot how difficult is it to re-tie a 40' leader on your yak..dealing with line spools and all?

Good question. For a kelp cutter rig you only use 4-5 feet of mono or fluorocarbon so that it will cut the kelp. :cool:

So that the Spectra will cut the kelp. You get the picture. :reel:

You dont sound like a cheep ass and you are doing the right thing by asking questions. At first spectra does seem expensive but look at it as an investment to save you money in the long run. The savings start adding up by using much less mono which wears out much faster due to memory and stretch. When the spectra shows enough signs of wear reverse it and put the worn end to the spool. The stuff lasts forever.

Start slowly one reel at a time. Figure out what your going to use a specific reel for and fill it accordingly; 50-65lb spectra is perfect. I divide reels into two catagories bait and jig casting. Bait fishing is a short top shot 3-4 feet and as long as 40-50 feet, short is best around kelp. I fill my bait reels with spectra to a level that is 3/16" from the edge of the spool. At this level I can fish straight spectra a 3-4 foot top shot or put enough 20-40lb mono on the reel so with my longest cast the splice will not hit the guides. For jig casting fill the reel 1/2-2/3 full with spectra depending on the width of the reel. Use enough mono so with your longest cast the splice does not reach the guides.

I thought we were talking about big fish. :D

You don't run 40' topshots around kelp. I generaly run anything from four to eight foot topshots around kelp, and yes spectra especially powerpro cuts kelp. The knots to tie spectra to fluoro are no more complicated then the ones you are already using to tie on your hooks.

Jim

Yep, that clears it all up...makes perfect sense.
Bellcon just sent me a pm and enlightened me as well.

Thanks guys!

Haha...see you guys are always speaking in WSB...a language I've yet to learn...haha

Has anyone had any experience with "Jerry Brown" Spectra?

I totally get it now. I'm ready to jump on the Spectra band-wagon for sure.
Thanks again guys.....Have I ever said I LOVE THIS SITE!

Private info..how cool is that!!! He should know: two years ago he was asking the same questions you are... :D

The deal is there is nothing new in this. People have been fishing short topshots with spectra for everything from long range cow tuna to rockfish to halibut to paddy and kelp yellows for over a decade now.

As to value I used to respool my mono every year on my reels. Now I have reels that I've had the same spectra on for at least ten years and it's as a good as new. This is especially true for my big game reels I use for sharks and Marlin. Almost ever single quality fish I have caught in the last decade has been caught with spectra with a short top. Though I occasionally have to cut off small amounts of worn line off the top I have never had to replace a whole spool of spectra, like I used to routinely do with Mono

From offshore to kelp to bottom fishing it's the only way to go IMO.

Jim

Jerry Brown is excellent spectra, one of the best made in my opinion. Since it has more strands then power pro it's smoother and does not cut through kelp like power pro, and it's also more expensive. So I'd not only say it's overkill for fishing La Jolla but also not as good in a kelp cutting application.

With my offshore reels I like to fill them with Power Pro then loop to loop in a about 50 feet of Jerry brown hollow Blue which I then splice directly to my short top of Seagar fluorcarbon. The blue JB looks better in the water and get's bit better and I can change these out like old style windons with the loop to loop.

Bottom line it's good stuff but I'd say better for big game or long range applications.

Jim

I'm sold Jim!
I'm starting a Top Ramen based diet tomorrow...I should be able to swing a few thousand yards of spectra by the end of next week...haha
BTW...what would it cost me to get the phone number to your "red phone"..you know the one you always answer?

Good Stuff Jim! I knew you'd know the answer. :you_rock:

casts like izor and cuts as good or better then power pro. for those that have never used spectra, It does cast differently,Be sure to spool it tight, and level, if you don't and you get a birds nest it will sink deep into the spool. if your not sure have it done well worth it. I don't care for power pro because of the wax, it tends to stick to its self, Although i did get the hollow core, I have cast it but not yet fished it. also never cast a dry spool. get a little water on the spool before that first cast. wasn't there a thread about spectra not too long ago? :reel:

here it is
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=9612

So, I'll use the Jerry Brown to fill my jig casting reel and splice in 50 feet of PowerPro near the distal end for kelp cutting. So if I cast 300 ft, the top 50 will be for kelp cutting. :cool:

LOL...

The deal is you just do a reel or two at a time and eventually you get kind of a critical mass going :D

Often when I get a new reel I just take something I'm not using that has the same capacity specs and move the spectra over.

Check this out...
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7402/tyrnos2.jpg

I bought those reels at the same time, but see the reel on the left: how the spectra is a lighter color? That spectra is maybe eight years old and it's faded from use to a olive green. It started out it's life for me on a TLD5 fishing offshore tuna, then got moved to a Avet SX that I used for halibut, then got moved to that tyrnos eight.

Still good though. Here's a black I released that day while fishing with it...
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9949/bigblack2.jpg

I put ton of pressure on that fish to get it up and that old spectra held up just fine.

As to the phone.... LOL

Well that clears up a mystery on my end.

I gather I gave you my shop number. I use a voip phone at the shop and for a while everything kept getting bounced to visual voice-mail where things get transcribed into text and sent to my email. I got several calls that got garbled with chopped up nonsensical text all from the same area code, and I couldn't figure out who they were from. If that was you man... You have my sincerest apologies.

Jim

For me the only reason I haven't gone to spectra w/ a short topshot is because of casting. I hate the knot banging through the guides, killing my distance. What knots are you guys using for short topshots?

Uni to Uni, 10 wraps of spectra around the mono and 3 wraps of mono around the spectra. For the shortest top shots a ball bering swivel works well. I recommend it for top shots to be used with dropper loops and halibut drifting.

one other thing to remember about spectra is the fact you can re-use it once it gets old/discolored..... just respool it onto another reel and you've got new line. the bottom of the spool is brand new and does'nt go bad like mono.:leaving:

Anyone ever try a bimini twist? I worked with a guy at Seaforth that used that for his top shots. Crazy knot man, not something you can tie on a kayak. The dude had his legs and arms busy and took 15 minutes to tie.

The bimini twist is one of the strongest connections but it makes too large of a knot.

I started out using spectra as a backing only, with about 1/2 the spool spec and 1/2 the spool mono. I was a bit nervous about casting the spec or having a knot pass through the guides. But a few years ago I started filling my reels all the way up with spec and only using 3-5' of mono or fluoro as top shot. I have no trouble casting the spec and feel it casts better than mono. Using spec for baybass fishing I realized how many bites I've been missing over the years with mono. With 0 stretch you feel ever thing. Same with deep water coding. I also like the option of using different line tests on the same reel for different applications. I have a sort of calico set up with 30lb spec on a curado 200. I run 10-15lb on it in the bay or local kelp. I recently took a trip to baja where I was casting large jerk baits right in to mangrove roots. I switched the top shot to 30lb fluoro for abrasion resistance and it worked very well. Also the 0 stretch let me really set the hook and keep the fish coming toward the boat. Mike

Holy crap...that black looks like a toad....how big?
The phone thing: No, that wasn't me and sorry about your troubles....Remember Batman? The commissioner had the red phone that only Batman would call.
http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/th...e-batphone.jpg

Anyway, thanks for all the help peeps...much appreciated!

Do you guys always tie a uni to uni or an albright (which takes me 5 minutes to tie)
Or, use a swivel when you're running a short lead of say 2 to 4 feet and you can prevent the swivel from running through the guides?

I use a Bob Sands/Tony Pena knot to join the mono/fluoro to the spectra. It's low profile and passes through the guides just fine. On local stuff I don't use fluoro, just mono. I use a fluoro leader in a pick Albie/Tuna trip.

Use a swivel that has a ring large enough so it will not pass through the tip. And yes, it does take more time to tie a splice, but the time it takes to tie one will decrease with practice.

Hey thats lots of great info right there. You guys answered a few of the Qs i been thinking about as well.. So even if i didnt start the thread I got to thank you all.. Waiting for the weather to get better to go out there again. Cant wait to catch a nice keeper.

Sasha

Extra Braid?
 

So i was wondering if any body has about 12yards or so of braid the wont be useing any time soon that i could buy off you?

here ya go, best I could do at 950 pm :cheers1:
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=9733