Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

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-   West Coast Whoppers 2011 (http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Ideas for next contest (http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/showthread.php?t=13075)

Regor 04-03-2012 08:33 PM

Ideas for next contest
 
I did not want to distract from the rankings thread, but I did have some ideas for the next go-around, and some fun facts from WCW 2011.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...011_Stats1.jpg



Of note
~ January was the only month a YT was not submitted
~ WSB were submitted from April-Sep, and then never subbmitted again
~ Total submittals from April thru Sep - 67
~ Total submittals from October thru March - 35
~ Our #1 winner had his last submittal Sep 2011 (lots more fish caught, just no submittal was required after Sep :)


Some ideas:

Keep the same weight/point system in place as in 2011. This really did seem to be the best way to accumulate points, and it keeps anglers on the hunt for different fish, especially with the changing of seasons, migration of fish.


Have a subset of contests for each species. I know it sounds like a lot more work, but easily controlled, and easy to keep track of (I'd volunteer to help). You could buy in to the species/pot of $$, Go by total weight of Halibuts/TY/WSB. Appears to have been done in 2008?


Have some kind of WCMW (West Coast Mini-Whoppers) - which will keep the entire membership involved in a contest. i.e. One point for each pound of total weight of top 5 Calico caught in one month?


Greg

RK 04-03-2012 08:51 PM

Hey Greg I can tell you for certain December was world class local yt fishing....It wasn't December dude, maybe January? I think Eric had one in jan though.
Cool stats I also noticed that it seems like the weights were substantially higher than older years...
I'm with Scallywag on his ideas but who knows or cares,
I really dig the jackpot deal, maybe a year long jackpot?
I also think the 20/30/40 weight upgrade is necessary.
I don't think that puts anyone out too muchif you guys don't think Dana or Cabrillo are holding bigger Hali's your trippin.
It's a great event great competetors and a cool vibe. The good thing is the moderators and judges are actually solid fisherman whatever they decide will be good.

Regor 04-04-2012 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK (Post 112573)
Hey Greg I can tell you for certain December was world class local yt fishing....It wasn't December dude, maybe January?

Fixed - it was January that no YT were submitted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK (Post 112573)
I also think the 20/30/40 weight upgrade is necessary.

IMO - this wouldn't be good for competition. There would be months that would go by without some species being submitted.

Halibut submittals would go from 37 down to a total of 9 - for the whole year.

WSB - submittals would go from 24 down to a total of 11 - for the whole year.

YT - submittals would go from 41 down to a total of 18 - for the whole year.

Of course, a lot of this depends on the number of competitors, but if the lb limits were raised, that may discourage fisherpeople (gotta be gender generic) :) from joining.

.

.

.

Regor 04-04-2012 06:19 AM

Here is one more weight increase idea without going as crazy as the higher suggestion.

BUT - 15
YT - 25
WSB - 35

Based on these numbers, we would have had the following for 2011:
Halibut submittals would have been 17
YT submittals would have been 31
WSB submittals would have been 16


This isn't too bad.

Iceman 04-04-2012 07:46 AM

Greg,

Thanks for posting the stats, interesting stuff. WCW has never stayed exactly the same, each year we have changed up something. From the beginning we were happy to have a handful playing and hoped for lots of spectators.

Lets hear more ideas!

ericko 04-04-2012 02:19 PM

Regor good work how bout extra points for catch and release if it could be done ??

KennyHill 04-04-2012 03:13 PM

how about adding a bass division...just an idea.

jorluivil 04-04-2012 03:13 PM

My suggestion:Those of who who didn't join for specific reasons but wanted to need to speak up, I heard some pretty cool ideas from other guys.

If a beginner, amateur and pro class are created I'm sure we will get more 'fisher-people' to join. Fisher-people can be separated into classes by the numbers of years they have kayak fishing: 0-1: beginner 2-4: amateur 5+: pro. Its hard to compete with guys that can get out 3-4 times a week, guides or those of you that live 1, 3 or even 5 miles from the nearest ocean and can get away as soon as the bite opens.

RK 04-04-2012 03:50 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Just keep it the way it is!!!
I can see where this is going. Andy said it best small group lots of spectators.
It's not broke, don't try to re structure the whole thing just make a few tweaks to the existing format.




I would like to make a request to moderators can you guys please issue a "LEGEND AWARD" and I would personally like to recommend Vito as the first honorary recipient!!!!!!

monkeyfishturds 04-04-2012 04:21 PM

Since it's a contest for whoppers, don't handicap the fish. Most pounds should total the winner. Minimum sizes are fair. Halibut 10lbs, Yellowtail 20lbs and White Seabass 30lbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 112671)
Its hard to compete with guys that can get out 3-4 times a week

Your never going to solve this problem, it does make the contest inaccurate.

jorluivil 04-04-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfishturds (Post 112683)
Since it's a contest for whoppers, don't handicap the fish. Most pounds should total the winner. Minimum sizes are fair. Halibut 10lbs, Yellowtail 20lbs and White Seabass 30lbs.



Your never going to solve this problem, it does make the contest inaccurate.

total pounds would make sense if it was limited to one species, 40-50lb wsb are way more common than 40-50lb halibut. Creating a specific class or contest for specific species would make sense if you use total weights to rank individuals, sort of how they do it in the bass tournaments....you can't enter a 10lb hali or a 30lb yellow in a bass tourney, it wouldn't be fair.


keep this in mind, if no one ever improved the wheel we'd be driving $60k cars with wooden wheels, but we don't. Why? because it was improved and made better, FOR EVERYONE.

ful-rac 04-04-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 112671)
Its hard to compete with guys that can get out 3-4 times a week


Actually....that's not right.... its impossible to compete with guys that fish 3-4-5 times a week. And if you can... you should be awarded the so called "Legend Award" it should come with a 6-pack of dos equis....
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/im...XbiYco0jtR7Nez

"I don't fish often...but when I do, I win West Coat Whoppers!"

ful-rac 04-04-2012 05:43 PM

The species specific idea seems fair because anybody could win in that case. If you don't have a particular species in your backyard, you don't have to enter that contest if you don't think it's fair for you. Get rid of the point system, and just go strictly biggest fish, this would encourage the release of more fish. Everybody likes conservation right??!

A 1st time kayaker could put a sardine down there and catch a 40 pound halibut and win...seems fair...? maybe even monthly payouts or prizes for the biggest fish in its catagory for the month, just to make it interesting.

I also think that a bass division would be popular, especially for the veterans and also for the new guys that are learning to fish off of their yak. A bass division would be great for guys who cant afford to drive down to la jolla, or fish all night, or guys who just don't get the inside info as well.

jorluivil 04-04-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ful-rac (Post 112692)
Everybody likes conservation right??!


WOOOOORD!!!

Old Man in the Sea 04-05-2012 08:40 AM

With new MLPA restrictions and increased fishing pressure in a concentrated area - if there is ANY way to promote a catch and release program that should be brainstormed and researched.

bus kid 04-05-2012 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 112671)
My suggestion:Those of who who didn't join for specific reasons but wanted to need to speak up, I heard some pretty cool ideas from other guys.

If a beginner, amateur and pro class are created I'm sure we will get more 'fisher-people' to join. Fisher-people can be separated into classes by the numbers of years they have kayak fishing: 0-1: beginner 2-4: amateur 5+: pro. Its hard to compete with guys that can get out 3-4 times a week, guides or those of you that live 1, 3 or even 5 miles from the nearest ocean and can get away as soon as the bite opens.

good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by ful-rac (Post 112691)
Actually....that's not right.... its impossible to compete with guys that fish 3-4-5 times a week. And if you can... you should be awarded the so called "Legend Award" it should come with a 6-pack of dos equis....
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/im...XbiYco0jtR7Nez

"I don't fish often...but when I do, I win West Coat Whoppers!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ful-rac (Post 112692)
The species specific idea seems fair because anybody could win in that case. If you don't have a particular species in your backyard, you don't have to enter that contest if you don't think it's fair for you. Get rid of the point system, and just go strictly biggest fish, this would encourage the release of more fish. Everybody likes conservation right??!

A 1st time kayaker could put a sardine down there and catch a 40 pound halibut and win...seems fair...? maybe even monthly payouts or prizes for the biggest fish in its catagory for the month, just to make it interesting.

I also think that a bass division would be popular, especially for the veterans and also for the new guys that are learning to fish off of their yak. A bass division would be great for guys who cant afford to drive down to la jolla, or fish all night, or guys who just don't get the inside info as well.

Jorge nailed it, there is no way I'm getting into a competition with a guy that fishes for a living and is OTW more in a month then me in a year.
with that being said I believe that;

1.Bass division a good idea, (This might draw Mr. green out of semi retirement.)
2. biggest fish by class is good too.
3.a "beginner, amateur and pro class" could work nice but at what point to you move into the next class, how do keep guys from sandbagging to stay at a level they are above, definitely a area for discussion by the organizers.
4. Catch and release sounds like a good idea too.
5. what about a category for biggest mac, or most bait made in a trip. Then maybe I might have a chance!!!
looking forward to see what this years competition will bring.

GregAndrew 04-05-2012 09:34 PM

I love stats, and for tha matter numbers in general. They can substantiate or discard lots of hypotheses. They can also provide interesting information, sometimes expected and sometimes not so much. I went through this years submittals and came up with slightly different numbers than Regor, but basically the same. I got 38 Halibut totalling 611 lbs, 42 YT totalling 1219 lbs and 22 WSB totalling 1140 lbs. These were the numbers I based my analysis on. The first fun fact that I got was that even though there were almost half as many WSB submitted, there were 11 competitors that submitted them. There were only 9 that submitted Butts or YT. Only 6 people submitted all 3 species over the year, and obviously only 1 in 1 month. And 8 people had at least 2 species submitted.

Now for the meat and potato numbers. YT were the most submitted fish (42), followed closely by Halibut (38) and distantly by WSB (22). The average points earned by a WSB was 41.18, a YT was 40.21 and a Butt was 36.34. The total points earned by all YT was 1689, all Butts was 1381 and all WSB 906. 42.5% of all points earned went to YT, 34.7% to Halibut and 22.8% to WSB. In this contest this year, YT reigned supreme and WSB was the step child.

If you raised the minimum weights to the suggested 20/30/40 here is what the results would have looked like. YT would have been the most submitted (18), folowed by WSB (11) and Halibut (9). The average points earned by a WSB would have been 50.27, a YT 45.72 and a Halibut 45.33. The total points earned by all YT would have been 823, all WSB 553 and all Butts 408. Raising YTs command to 46.1%, with WSB taking 31% and Halibut taking 22.9%.

A couple more fun facts: I believe that all YT and WSB were caught at LJ. Five of the nine 20 lbs+ Halibut were also caught at LJ/SD vs. all of the rest of the south coast (including Dana and Cabrillo).

Regor 04-08-2012 02:35 PM

More ideas to chew on:

Contest is per Species.
  • For each species of WSB/YT/Butt - One submittal per month.
  • Winner for each species is top points after 12 months
  • Must have picture/video, with weight & tape shot for pound points.
  • Must have picture/video, with tape shot for C&R (tape, measuring device, paddle with marking, etc)


WSB -
20lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 20
C&r if 40" or greater for 20 points

YT -
20lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 20
C&R if 35" or greater for 20 points

BUT -
10lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 10
C&R if 30" or greater for 10 points

Bass -
Monthly submittal is combined weight of 5 fish - 2 points per pound
C&R - 1 point for each legal bass up to 5 per month

.

.

jorluivil 04-08-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 113182)
More ideas to chew on:

Contest is per Species.
  • For each species of WSB/YT/Butt - One submittal per month.
  • Winner for each species is top points after 12 months
  • Must have picture/video, with weight & tape shot for pound points.
  • Must have picture/video, with tape shot for C&R (tape, measuring device, paddle with marking, etc)


WSB -
20lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 20
C&r if 40" or greater for 20 points

YT -
20lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 20
C&R if 35" or greater for 20 points

BUT -
10lb minumum for 20 points + 1 point for each lb over 10
C&R if 30" or greater for 10 points

Bass -
Monthly submittal is combined weight of 5 fish - 2 points per pound
C&R - 1 point for each legal bass up to 5 per month

.

.


I like

bus kid 04-09-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 113182)
More ideas to chew on:
  • Must have picture/video, with tape shot for C&R (tape, measuring device, paddle with marking, etc)


.

.

Hay Jorge can I borrow your paddle? :D

jorluivil 04-09-2012 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bus kid (Post 113313)
Hay Jorge can I borrow your paddle? :D


No, but you can place your measuring sticker between:the_finger: here and here:the_finger:

bus kid 04-09-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 113324)
No, but you can place your measuring sticker between:the_finger: here and here:the_finger:

your ":the_finger: here and here :the_finger:" is about 3/8th too short for my measuring sticker.

1837 post that cant be right? its like your going backwards or something :toetap05:

Billy V 04-09-2012 04:40 PM

Next years idea... Step it Up!

Only 40+ lb. Yellowtail, 50+ lb. WSB, and 35+ lb. Halibut, Qualify for Submission.

Go Big - Donkeys Only.
----------------------------------
Submit them all if you can qualify. Anyone can catch a lot of little fish, but it takes a skilled angler to land the donkey.

dorado50 04-09-2012 09:34 PM

I suggest that there be no losers. Anyone that enters is a winner! This way is equally fair to all who participate. :D

j mo 04-10-2012 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado50 (Post 113383)
I suggest that there be no losers. Anyone that enters is a winner! This way is equally fair to all who participate. :D

lol! just like life- equality, justice and ambiguous halibut for all

RK 04-10-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado50 (Post 113383)
I suggest that there be no losers. Anyone that enters is a winner! This way is equally fair to all who participate. :D



Dave's right!!
Everyone should get a juice box and a candy bar, we should model WCW after little league.

Salty Dog 04-11-2012 08:40 AM

Sweeten The Pot
 
1st place gets a 12-pack of beer from from all participants.

5th to 2nd-to-last place gets WCW Merit Badges.

Last place gets a WCW Badge of Shame. Biggest loser has to tow around the 1st place winner for an entire day of fishing and must perform all bait making and beer wenching duties.

PegLegFury 05-25-2012 07:54 PM

I'm a new member but I'm up to join the next WCW. After going through the past rules and this thread I thought of a couple more species

Black Sea Bass- Obviously it needs to be unhooked and released in a safe and timely manner but I also think that if you manage to reel one of these beasts in and a pic can be taken (preferably with fish at surface and not in a lap) and its of mature age why not count it. Since you cant get a satisfactory length or weight for scoring without removing the fish from the water just have a flat score, say 40pts per catch

Thresher- can have a similar scoring as seabass or something like 20pts for 75lbs plus 1pt per lb after that.

I do like the idea of adding stripers, calico and sand bass so far though
And I'm all for 3 different classes but thats probably cause Im inexperienced on a kayak

jorluivil 05-25-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PegLegFury (Post 119571)
I'm a new member but I'm up to join the next WCW. After going through the past rules and this thread I thought of a couple more species

Black Sea Bass- Obviously it needs to be unhooked and released in a safe and timely manner but I also think that if you manage to reel one of these beasts in and a pic can be taken (preferably with fish at surface and not in a lap) and its of mature age why not count it. Since you cant get a satisfactory length or weight for scoring without removing the fish from the water just have a flat score, say 40pts per catch

Thresher- can have a similar scoring as seabass or something like 20pts for 75lbs plus 1pt per lb after that.

I do like the idea of adding stripers, calico and sand bass so far though
And I'm all for 3 different classes but thats probably cause Im inexperienced on a kayak

I'll get the popcorn:D

PegLegFury 05-25-2012 08:54 PM

yeah those thresher and bsb sizes and scoring's just an example. I'll leave it to judges and/or other members to decide whats what. I dont think most yak fishers even equip themselves with gear that could put up with a fullgrown from these species anyway.

I just figured decent sized bsb's and threshers are commonly hooked from yaks in SoCal and they eat the same stuff as the wsb's, yt's and butts so it shouldn't be a pointless (get it) 'chore' to reel it in to get your lure/hook back.

I'd probably leave bsb's off the scoring simply because I dont think people should purposefully target them but if Im trying to get wsbs or halibut and I pull up a similar sized bsb instead i'd like to get points. They're both challenging fish and kudos are given when someone posts pics on the forum. Why not add'em?

roadx 09-15-2012 08:06 AM

is there going to be a WCW for 2013?????

jorluivil 09-15-2012 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadx (Post 133210)
is there going to be a WCW for 2013?????


I sure hope so:D

bus kid 10-11-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 133212)
I sure hope so:D

Dont hold your breath!!! :D

http://www.december212012.com/

Mackerel Masher 10-31-2012 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bus kid (Post 136058)
Dont hold your breath!!! :D

http://www.december212012.com/

Whew... I was going to turn 40 on the 23rd! Gonna dodge that bullet.

So... (yes I know I new here) here is how we run our yearly tournament over at BOCA.





Rules:
  • There are NO entry fees but you must be a Blackman owner to participate! Blackman Skippers must be current with their BOCA dues during the tournament ($25.00 annually) to compete.
  • No minimum weights other than all entries must comply with applicable California and/or Mexican fish and game regulations for size to qualify.
  • The boundaries will be opened up to include anywhere you can tow or pilot your boat with the trip starting and ending from your home port.
  • Time frame will be November 1, 2011 until October 31. 2012. Skippers can enter at any time but fish can only be submitted that are caught after the date the dues are paid and Skipper has officially entered the tournament
  • Points are earned based on the point system below. Only one fish from each category is counted at a time. Skippers may replace a previously submitted entry with a larger fish of the same species up until the end of the tournament. Total score is calculated by adding the points earned for each species. Skipper with the largest overall point total wins.
  • Points will be tracked on the BOCA Leader Board. Each Skipper will have his own page on the Bocapix site, which will display the qualifying pictures. Skippers will access their page by clicking on their name on the BOCA Leader Board
  • All fish caught or released on your boat (by any angler on board) will be credited to your boat.
  • Proof of catch and weight:
    • A photo of the fish (including the boat) to be submitted within 30 days of the catch. Photo will be posted and weight added to the Skippers total. Skipper is responsible for insuring his totals are updated correctly by monitoring the site and advising BOCA Board Admin of any errors as soon as possible
    • Weight - Preferred method is to weigh all fish on land with a quality scale unless practicing catch and release in which case weighing the fish on board is acceptable. Skippers are encouraged to calibrate their scales before the tournament starts and periodically throughout the season. All weights rounded to the nearest whole number with .5 being rounded up to the next whole number.
  • Marlin and sharks to have picture taken with fish at least at leader if being released.
  • *Wildcard entry, any fish not on the list, excluding skates, rays Molas or sharks.
Eligible Species:

Marlin 100 points max (would like to see a release)
Thresher Shark 50 points max (would like to see a release)
Mako Shark 50 points max (would like to see a release)
Swordfish 1 point per pound
Bigeye 1 point per pound
Yellowfin 2 points per pound
Bluefin 2 points per pound
Albacore 2 points per pound
Yellowtail 2 points per pound
White Seabass 2 points per pound
Dorado 3 points per pound
California Halibut 3 points per pound
Lingcod 4 points per pound
Rockcod (Sebates) 6 points per pound
Sandbass 7 points per pound
Calico Bass 7 points per pound
Wildcard 2 points per pound

So thems our rules.

Now here is how the year ended today:

http://bocapix.com/Leader%20Board%202012.htm

So... again, just an FYI of how we do ours (yes I know I'm new here).

maui jim 10-31-2012 02:10 PM

I believe the only thing missing is a Slot Limit Cull.....:cool:

HobieOneCanoebe 06-25-2016 08:34 PM

bass
 
Would we only be counting legal bass or do shorties count for the monthly total? Given you don't catch 5 legal bass.


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