FF Battery question (ryobi Lithium Ion?)

[Harry Hill]

There are big differences in Lithium technology. While Lithium Polymer will charge to 4.7 volts per cell and discharge at a more even rate Lithium Ion charges to 3.3 volts per cell and hold a steady level longer but will fall off rapidly without warning. LiPo drops evenly but cannot be allowed to fall below 3 volts per cell or will be ruined and cannot be recharged. Both take a dedicated charger. Both can be partially discharged and recharged without damaging them and will take over 1000 charge cycles. LiPo is highly volatile and if damaged will burn with a white hot fire, not a good thing on a boat. Probably the type of battery that was on the dive boat. I use LiPo because that is what I own but if I buy another battery for my kayak it will be LiIon.

[igotpron]

Originally Posted by Harry Hill

There are big differences in Lithium technology. While Lithium Polymer will charge to 4.7 volts per cell and discharge at a more even rate Lithium Ion charges to 3.3 volts per cell and hold a steady level longer but will fall off rapidly without warning. LiPo drops evenly but cannot be allowed to fall below 3 volts per cell or will be ruined and cannot be recharged. Both take a dedicated charger. Both can be partially discharged and recharged without damaging them and will take over 1000 charge cycles. LiPo is highly volatile and if damaged will burn with a white hot fire, not a good thing on a boat. Probably the type of battery that was on the dive boat. I use LiPo because that is what I own but if I buy another battery for my kayak it will be LiIon.

Sooooo. Who’s got a cell phone without a lipo inside? I’m aware of the potential hazards. But the worst that happens is I flood my batteries with salt water. Which happens to be one of the safe ways to discharge the battery down before you destroy it. So worst case is I loose a couple batteries. But that’s only if my kayak floods and my waterproof box floods. And by that point. That’s probably the least of my concerns.


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[Harry Hill]

Originally Posted by igotpron

Sooooo. Who’s got a cell phone without a lipo inside? I’m aware of the potential hazards. But the worst that happens is I flood my batteries with salt water. Which happens to be one of the safe ways to discharge the battery down before you destroy it. So worst case is I loose a couple batteries. But that’s only if my kayak floods and my waterproof box floods. And by that point. That’s probably the least of my concerns.


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Your biggest concern is if you damage the battery somehow, then it could have an internal short and explode in flames, which water will not extinguish. Lithium fires need a type D extinguisher to put out. a dead short will also cause a fire or at the very least this will happen

[TJones]

Exactly are we looking at? Can’t make it out. A battery that expanded?

[jruiz]

There's alot of misinformation in this thread, some of which would at the minimum give you an unpleasant day on the water or at it's worst cause death or harm.

1. Lipo is a reference to the use of a polymer base electrolyte as oppose to a liquid base system + separator. It's inherently safer. Reason being it removes flammable liquid electrolyte from the equation. It does NOT charge at a different voltage.

2. All lithium metal oxide chemistry type cells charge to 4.2-4.1 volts. Lithium iron phophate charges to 3.6. What Harry is probably seeing on his rc batteries are the operating voltages per cell, not the charge voltage. He's probably mistaking 4.7 for 3.7. Charging to 4.7 WILL definitely cause a fire. Charging to 3.3 will probably discharge the cell.

3. Class D fire extinguisher is only needed for metal fires. These are group 1 or 2 elements like lithium, sodium, magnesium, and calcium. This applies only in their pure form. Lithium metal does not exist in lithium ion or lipo batteries. Lithium metal does occur in non-rechargeable lithium batteries. Most of the fire from a lithium ion battery is the electrolyte, hence why a class B extinguisher should be used.

I've been involved in research and manufacturing of lithium non-rechargeable batteries for over 10 years. Currently working on non-rechargeable and rechargeable lithium batteries for space applications.

[Harry Hill]

Originally Posted by jruiz

There's alot of misinformation in this thread, some of which would at the minimum give you an unpleasant day on the water or at it's worst cause death or harm.

1. Lipo is a reference to the use of a polymer base electrolyte as oppose to a liquid base system + separator. It's inherently safer. Reason being it removes flammable liquid electrolyte from the equation. It does NOT charge at a different voltage.

2. All lithium metal oxide chemistry type cells charge to 4.2-4.1 volts. Lithium iron phophate charges to 3.6. What Harry is probably seeing on his rc batteries are the operating voltages per cell, not the charge voltage. He's probably mistaking 4.7 for 3.7. Charging to 4.7 WILL definitely cause a fire. Charging to 3.3 will probably discharge the cell.

3. Class D fire extinguisher is only needed for metal fires. These are group 1 or 2 elements like lithium, sodium, magnesium, and calcium. This applies only in their pure form. Lithium metal does not exist in lithium ion or lipo batteries. Lithium metal does occur in non-rechargeable lithium batteries. Most of the fire from a lithium ion battery is the electrolyte, hence why a class B extinguisher should be used.

I've been involved in research and manufacturing of lithium non-rechargeable batteries for over 10 years. Currently working on non-rechargeable and rechargeable lithium batteries for space applications.

Jr, Lithium Polymer will charge to 4.7 volts per cell, Lithium Ion charges to 3.7, two different chemistries. I have witnessed enough battery fires to know you can't put them out with type A,B, or C extinguishers. Two many hobbiests have lost their homes or cars from Lithium Polymer fires by making mistakes in charging or putting a damaged battery in their car without realizing the battery was damaged. I will say the technology is much better than when I first started using the battery type in 2000.

[jruiz]

Originally Posted by Harry Hill

Two many hobbiests have lost their homes or cars from Lithium Polymer fires by making mistakes in charging or putting a damaged battery in their car without realizing the battery was damaged.

That's because they listened to you. Mic drop

[Harry Hill]

Originally Posted by TJones

Exactly are we looking at? Can’t make it out. A battery that expanded?

a battery that shorted out and had an exothermic reaction. Those are all the different layers of that make up the battery. It was in the bed of my pick up and shorted out.

[TJones]

Originally Posted by Harry Hill

a battery that shorted out and had an exothermic reaction. Those are all the different layers of that make up the battery. It was in the bed of my pick up and shorted out.

I use a bioenno 6 volt 10 amp lipo for my vittels bait tank. The tank has a dry box to hold the battery. The battery is heat shrink wrapped with abs. The sides are paper. I wrapped the whole battery with heavy duty clear packing tape making it more water resistant. Is this thing a ticking time bomb? It is encased in a dry box when fishing. What happens to the lipo’s if they are short circuited from water such as flooding of yak? Thanks for feedback. Ps. Thanks for reaching out on my direct message.

[jruiz]

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. This is a LIPO battery from my garage

This is a volt meter on the same 3 cell LIPO battery that I just charged. 12.5/3=4.16V


Here's a datasheet for a random LIPO cell with the charge voltage highlighted


If you somehow discovered a 4.7-5V lithium rechargeable battery, hurry up and patent it. Everyone in the battery industry knows that the electrolytes in the batteries aren't stable at that high of a voltage. What happens is that the electrolyte breaks down and starts forming CO2. Probably what happened to you guys

https://www.arl.army.mil/wp-content/...trolyteAdd.pdf