New Scientific Studies Make the Case for the Marine Life Protection Act - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

dos ballenas · 02-26-2010, 10:15 AM

I know a lot of leftys against the mlpa process... there is a difference between them and the "green extremists"

Its sad that more often than not science is given a bad name and dragged into the fight due to these extremists tactics.

Most scientists I know are on the fishermens side, both commercially and recreationally. They laugh at the "greenies" and how easy it is for them to sway the vote by manipulating the results of scientific research to show their extreme view points.

Its true, some of the science is probably bad and may be biased, but regardless, its all about how its presented. And the greenies are very good at making their arguement.

j mo · 02-26-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

And the greenies are very good at making their arguement.

soo frustratingly true.

Billy V · 02-26-2010, 11:21 AM

The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians.

I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

Gino · 02-26-2010, 12:30 PM

It doesnt matter if the Science is valid or not, The result becomes the same. Those people politcally still support and Vote for the public policies and the elected officials who support them. They have some sorta trust in goverment witch is nonsence.

The ones that speak up about it, basically try to whipe clean there acountability, Its playing both sides. The next Enviormental initiative that sounds clean they will jump right on the band wagon.

this is a CA goverment process, and nothing they are employed to do ever turns out the way it sounds on a Ballot. Half the Time whats on the ballot isnt really whats on the bill. what makes this any differant?

It just like "heal the bay" crying about Special intrest on there facebook page AFTER the maps have been drawn up, and they are starting to choose and gear up for the Next Region. They didnt say anything during the other public comments about it? Those extremist will use anything at there desposal to further there agenda, Look at the Founding fathers of there movement...Al Gore?...Jerry Brown?... Green Peace? etc etc! Then the truth comes out, hacked E-mails, embelished reaserch, Fake results.

And we know what side the Media is on.

dos ballenas · 02-26-2010, 01:02 PM

The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people in this world, and many have different opinions.

Regardless, none of this matters... the only thing that matters is where you will be March 3rd and how thoughtfully you will choose to express your views.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=6721
C U THERE

FARRIER · 02-26-2010, 11:34 PM

Jut my two cents from a pea brain. But there is absolutely zero scientific or empirical data to support either side of this debate. There is no control group and there is no study group. There is no repeat of experiment. And there is no re -evaluation of data. No two areas or situations are congruent in the ocean as tides, fish, and bait are all somewhat migratory by nature so to speak. I have the feeling that the decision is going to be made behind closed doors regardless of which side is right or wrong. Its the democratic way. Money talks and common sense walks.

peguinpower · 02-27-2010, 04:17 AM

In studies of marine protected areas, social and environmental scientists found that...

"Social scientists have said that it's local people banding together with their community leaders who ultimately determine the success or failure of tropical marine conservation areas in many parts of the world.

"When people sacrifice to conserve, they want to benefit from that sacrifice", said Patrick Christie, University of Washington associate professor of marine affairs and a Pew fellow in marine conservation. "People expect direct economic and social benefits from conservation," he added."

Conflicts develop, however, when outsiders move in to implement closures."

Gestapo like closures will not work. Exclusion, outdoor activity segregation, and prejudice towards differing objectives is DISCRIMINATION!

California is bankrupt! In New Zealand....

"One of the most common causes for failure of marine protected areas is a lack of resources to implement protection."

THERE IS NO CONSENSUS ABOUT MARINE RESERVE EFFECTIVENESS!

"William Precht, a coral reef geologist and restoration specialist for the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, added, "Data from throughout the Caribbean and western Atlantic indicate that no form of local stewardship or management could have protected coral populations from their major sources of mortality (environmental factors) or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss observed during the past few decades."

"A ..... study (Jones et al. 2004) published in PNAS documented the failure of marine reserves in Papua New Guinea to mitigate the effects of the 1998 El Nino and other more local disturbances. The eight year study found that coral cover declined from 65% to 10% both inside reserves and on neighboring fished sites."

Environmental factors, specifically pollutants (ergo urban run off) hurt the fishery more than nature loving self regulating sportfishermen.

/bing

WahooUSMA · 02-27-2010, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy V

The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians.

I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

Ya know part of me is envious of he vegan carpet muncher's, because they get more skirt than I do!

Faq'em

Matt · 02-27-2010, 05:47 AM

Ummmmmmm yaaaa!! SO the era of poaching begins.............every once in awhile my friends ya need to stand up to Political Tyranny if you haven't joined the fight against the MLPA......may I ask why not??

Piney · 03-02-2010, 09:50 AM

I grew up 15 miles north of La Jolla, had my first ocean fishing experiences in the kelp there and my first skindiving experiences at the Cove and Blacks when I was a kid (in the 60's). I now live 400 miles away, but have been following the whole MLPA deal as closely as possible, as I still consider coastal North San Diego county my backyard. I have been sending in comments to the groups that will accept them. My main beef with the whole thing is permanent, forever closure of areas to recreational fishing. Why does it have to be so black and white? This deal is gonna be basically unenforceable anyway with the lack of DFG wardens and state budget, so why is there no talk of ideas like a 10 year closure for certain species, or a catch and release section, or "self-propelled vessels only fishing", or if a section needs a rest, look at it again in a few years sorta thing. Man, they do this kind of stuff all the time in Alaska and up north with the salmon/steelhead fisheries, and it seems to work. If there is indeed "sound science", it should be put to work, instead of putting heads in the sand. Paul, are you out there? Sorry, could not make any meetings, but I'm backing you all in spirit, and by e-mail comments. That's my two bits worth and I'm stickin' to it....

02-26-2010, 10:15 AM	#1
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	I know a lot of leftys against the mlpa process... there is a difference between them and the "green extremists" Its sad that more often than not science is given a bad name and dragged into the fight due to these extremists tactics. Most scientists I know are on the fishermens side, both commercially and recreationally. They laugh at the "greenies" and how easy it is for them to sway the vote by manipulating the results of scientific research to show their extreme view points. Its true, some of the science is probably bad and may be biased, but regardless, its all about how its presented. And the greenies are very good at making their arguement. __________________ ____________________________________________

02-26-2010, 01:02 PM	#5
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people in this world, and many have different opinions. Regardless, none of this matters... the only thing that matters is where you will be March 3rd and how thoughtfully you will choose to express your views. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=6721 C U THERE __________________ ____________________________________________ Last edited by dos ballenas; 02-26-2010 at 01:22 PM.

02-27-2010, 05:47 AM	#9
Matt Support your local pangas Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lj Posts: 976	Ummmmmmm yaaaa!! SO the era of poaching begins.............every once in awhile my friends ya need to stand up to Political Tyranny if you haven't joined the fight against the MLPA......may I ask why not?? __________________ Thanks Matt F.

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02-26-2010, 11:21 AM	#3
Billy V Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Ho Posts: 1,382	The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians. I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

02-26-2010, 12:30 PM	#4
Gino Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 520	It doesnt matter if the Science is valid or not, The result becomes the same. Those people politcally still support and Vote for the public policies and the elected officials who support them. They have some sorta trust in goverment witch is nonsence. The ones that speak up about it, basically try to whipe clean there acountability, Its playing both sides. The next Enviormental initiative that sounds clean they will jump right on the band wagon. this is a CA goverment process, and nothing they are employed to do ever turns out the way it sounds on a Ballot. Half the Time whats on the ballot isnt really whats on the bill. what makes this any differant? It just like "heal the bay" crying about Special intrest on there facebook page AFTER the maps have been drawn up, and they are starting to choose and gear up for the Next Region. They didnt say anything during the other public comments about it? Those extremist will use anything at there desposal to further there agenda, Look at the Founding fathers of there movement...Al Gore?...Jerry Brown?... Green Peace? etc etc! Then the truth comes out, hacked E-mails, embelished reaserch, Fake results. And we know what side the Media is on.

02-26-2010, 11:34 PM	#6
FARRIER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Cmont [] Posts: 314	Jut my two cents from a pea brain. But there is absolutely zero scientific or empirical data to support either side of this debate. There is no control group and there is no study group. There is no repeat of experiment. And there is no re -evaluation of data. No two areas or situations are congruent in the ocean as tides, fish, and bait are all somewhat migratory by nature so to speak. I have the feeling that the decision is going to be made behind closed doors regardless of which side is right or wrong. Its the democratic way. Money talks and common sense walks.

02-27-2010, 04:17 AM	#7
peguinpower bing! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: socal Posts: 246	In studies of marine protected areas, social and environmental scientists found that... "Social scientists have said that it's local people banding together with their community leaders who ultimately determine the success or failure of tropical marine conservation areas in many parts of the world. "When people sacrifice to conserve, they want to benefit from that sacrifice", said Patrick Christie, University of Washington associate professor of marine affairs and a Pew fellow in marine conservation. "People expect direct economic and social benefits from conservation," he added." Conflicts develop, however, when outsiders move in to implement closures." Gestapo like closures will not work. Exclusion, outdoor activity segregation, and prejudice towards differing objectives is DISCRIMINATION! California is bankrupt! In New Zealand.... "One of the most common causes for failure of marine protected areas is a lack of resources to implement protection." THERE IS NO CONSENSUS ABOUT MARINE RESERVE EFFECTIVENESS! "William Precht, a coral reef geologist and restoration specialist for the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, added, "Data from throughout the Caribbean and western Atlantic indicate that no form of local stewardship or management could have protected coral populations from their major sources of mortality (environmental factors) or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss observed during the past few decades." "A ..... study (Jones et al. 2004) published in PNAS documented the failure of marine reserves in Papua New Guinea to mitigate the effects of the 1998 El Nino and other more local disturbances. The eight year study found that coral cover declined from 65% to 10% both inside reserves and on neighboring fished sites." Environmental factors, specifically pollutants (ergo urban run off) hurt the fishery more than nature loving self regulating sportfishermen. /bing

03-02-2010, 09:50 AM	#10
Piney Junior Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3	I grew up 15 miles north of La Jolla, had my first ocean fishing experiences in the kelp there and my first skindiving experiences at the Cove and Blacks when I was a kid (in the 60's). I now live 400 miles away, but have been following the whole MLPA deal as closely as possible, as I still consider coastal North San Diego county my backyard. I have been sending in comments to the groups that will accept them. My main beef with the whole thing is permanent, forever closure of areas to recreational fishing. Why does it have to be so black and white? This deal is gonna be basically unenforceable anyway with the lack of DFG wardens and state budget, so why is there no talk of ideas like a 10 year closure for certain species, or a catch and release section, or "self-propelled vessels only fishing", or if a section needs a rest, look at it again in a few years sorta thing. Man, they do this kind of stuff all the time in Alaska and up north with the salmon/steelhead fisheries, and it seems to work. If there is indeed "sound science", it should be put to work, instead of putting heads in the sand. Paul, are you out there? Sorry, could not make any meetings, but I'm backing you all in spirit, and by e-mail comments. That's my two bits worth and I'm stickin' to it....