Hookup Baits - Thoughts?

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Biggest surprise in that article is how lenient the sentencing was, must have been a plea bargain.


Lets keep this a little more civil than over there........... to buy or not is still an independent choice.

Agreed with you. I understand that type of sentence for an offence or two offences. Had to be a plea deal.

Also hoping to keep it civil here. We're all adults.

[Mahigeer]

"24 months of unsupervised probation"---What the hell good does that do?

The other problem is that most of the public does not hear about crime like this.

They should make the violators pay for TV Public Service Announcements so a lot of people including the future potential poachers get the warning.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Also hoping to keep it civil here. We're all adults.

1. That National Park Service article sounds way overmodulated to me, as a blanket PR-hype threat to everyone in general that they are bad-ass and they are going to bust you without mercy and crush you like a bug.

2. It sounds like the people they went after as alleged criminals were convicted as part of a plea bargain on charges much less than all the wild innuendo in the first half of the article.

3. If it was tried, convicted and punished, ... and therefore resolved several years ago, then why rehash this again now as a new blog trial and punishment based on gossip, NPS hype, propaganda and unfounded, non-legal speculation that was not part of the original conviction, sentence and punishment?


It's done. Stick a fork in it.

Put away your tar and feathers.

It's not your job to try to destroy his business now as a self-appointed SJW vigilante and executioner.


Focus your attention on improving your own life, mind your own business and let sleeping dogs lie.

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Mr. NiceGuy

It's not your job to try to destroy his business now as a self-appointed SJW vigilante and executioner.

Focus your attention on improving your own life, mind your own business and let sleeping dogs lie.

Thread was started for discussion, kind the point of a forum. Take the hypocrisy elsewhere.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Thread was started for discussion, kind the point of a forum. You can take your hypocrisy elsewhere.

In your own passive-aggressive way you were stirring up muck from the past and attacking his business by name today.



You backed off. That was a good call.



Now, let's go fishing :-)

[stevie951]

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Thread was started for discussion, kind the point of a forum. Take the hypocrisy elsewhere.

I'm with it, thanks for the information, Denis...Likely will not purchase these now just with the knowledge & ample amounts of substitutes.. Hey just because they went to prison for life does not mean they are no longer a Murderer? Sure we all make mistakes but with the premeditation there it shows character, and that's not at all the kind of person I am or want my children to be.. Plus the things are an arm and a leg for a piece of plastic that will get tore on one good bite. I understand you can't run a business giving away products but, I'm not to sure about the, "Giving Back to the fishing community.."

Who the hell am I anyways? God fishing is too slow!!

[Ggiannig89]

I buy them from time to time. The guy paid for his crime. I know there’s plenty of people here who pull up a small rockfish and don’t keep it, or others who have taken undersized or not in season fish either on purpose or ignorance of law. These resources are all of ours and we need to keep each other accountable. Taking an animal or fish or even plants illegally doesn’t make someone a terrible person or unworthy of change.
To me things like this spark a bigger question about conservation with better public awareness and regulations backed by good science. My .02

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Thread was started for discussion, kind the point of a forum. Take the hypocrisy elsewhere.

Ok, I'm still thinking about your choice of words and what it might have to do with anything we are talking about in this forum of public opinion.

Since you requested a discussion, I would like to contribute some further thoughts.


Given:

We have laws defined and imposed on us by people who work for the government in government provided jobs with government provided infrastructure and budgets (buildings, offices, fresh new trucks and boats with lots of gadgets, endless numbers of computers and expensive new equipment, etc., etc., etc., that is all very eco-unfriendly.)


Given:

We have a so-called "justice" system of prosecutors, defenders and judges that is so damned overloaded with frivolous paper-shuffling that it has almost come to a stand-still, and it has been so bent out of shape by laws and prospecting lawyers that the "justice" of it's original purpose has to a large extent been lost.


Given:

What is or is not "poaching" is defined by law, mostly by ever-growing bureaucracies that keep expanding to justify their purpose and keep hiring more and more people into government jobs that cost far more than they produce, and that consume vast amounts of precious resources very inefficiently in the process. Both natural resources consumed and polluted or destroyed by their infrastructure, and societal resources in terms of over-taxation and over-regulation of the private sector that supports their very expensive parasitic existence.


Given:

As human beings, if humanity is to survive, we have a higher level of moral laws to consider seriously and wisely. These are laws of nature, or laws under God, or laws of what's right and wrong in living together as a society and a culture in ways that might help us secure a better future for ourselves and for humanity that follows after we are gone. As human beings we have the ability to ponder and perhaps understand the importance of protecting and managing the environment in which we live. This includes our environment in nature, in application of the knowledge and experience we accumulate as individuals, in the institutions of civil society that helps bind and lubricate us together as a nation of citizens and as a culture, and our environment of crass politics of ego, greed and power that bends everything the hell out of shape.


Therefore:

To this end, we must do our best to recognize and make personal decisions and personal choices to the best of our ability that will preserve, replace and build further the precious resources that sustain us, and that will improve our chances of managing and surviving into the future as nations, as cultures and as humans beings.

Whether what we have done is defined as dastardly "poaching" (spitooey!) or legal sport fishing because of some piece of paper we paid for, or because of what side of some arbitrary line we might be on, why are we destroying the lives of so many magnificent living creatures at all? Why do we hunt and fish with such lust and passion to turn the natural wildlife around us into tasty fish tacos?

When we catch a 21" fish that must be 22" according to law, and we throw it back on the water to die or to be scooped up by a bird, which technical laws of some government bureaucracy have we obeyed and which moral laws of nature have we broken, ... or not? Where is our proper position in the food chain and under the laws of Natural Selection and Darwinism. After all, we are born as omnivores, right? So is it our natural purpose to kill and be killed? Perhaps this is where the word "hypocrisy" might come in. This is something we have to define for ourselves.

After someone has been arrested, tried and punished under government regulations and laws, why is it then proper, or moral or just to rehash this subject again in the court of public opinion by dredging up an old character assassination propaganda article by the National Park Service because you could link it to the name of an individual who is local and among us as a fellow fishing enthusiast, and then attack him again by calling out the name of his business and livelihood in the title of this thread? The work he does in his business not only helps support him and his family, but by surviving in the private sector, he no doubt pays huge amounts of taxes (direct, indirect and hidden), that help support the bloated armies of government workers who do little or nothing to support themselves at very great expense to taxpayers and a free society in general.

Obviously you have stirred up some passions here and you have several people who want to support your call for a boycott to punish this person further. Again, we have to ponder and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong, legally and morally, and how we want to define our own lives as good citizens and thoughtful human beings who are trying to do the right things in life. Thinking about the meaning of hypocrisy and how it might apply to the conversation of this thread is good food for thought. No doubt about that.

Technically, legally, as far as attacking a person's reputation and trying to destroy the income of his business, and knowing the way lawyers like to stir things up with the kinds of leverage they can apply, I would guess you are already in the legal gray zone here. If I was the target of your personal attack myself, I might want to rightfully lash back, legally and morally, to protect myself, my family, my business and my means of support. Just trying to see the bigger picture here and avoid making problems worse.

This shit flies all directions and can splatter everyone. Opinions vary widely.

Lets go destroy more old, huge, beautiful, delicious, innocent fish legally.
Fish tacos, yay!


[/sarcasm]

[/morning coffee]


Seriously, have a nice day

Life is sweet. Live and let live.


Keep it moist

[Hunters Pa]

I'd rather boycott Hewlett Packard, REI and Stone Mountain Brewing for their support of MLPAs. And now Dicks for their anti-2nd amendment activities.

And when Stone Mountain says they did not know the group they were funding was actively campaigning for closure, well, that is 180 degrees from their credo of lambasting those that are "being led by the nose".

As previously said, I have more issue with the price tag. I have enough gear for fish to ignore.

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Mr. NiceGuy

Ok, I'm still thinking about your choice of words and what it might have to do with anything we are talking about in this forum of public opinion.

Since you requested a discussion, I would like to contribute some further thoughts.


Given:

We have laws defined and imposed on us by people who work for the government in government provided jobs with government provided infrastructure and budgets (buildings, offices, fresh new trucks and boats with lots of gadgets, endless numbers of computers and expensive new equipment, etc., etc., etc., that is all very eco-unfriendly.)


Given:

We have a so-called "justice" system of prosecutors, defenders and judges that is so damned overloaded with frivolous paper-shuffling that it has almost come to a stand-still, and it has been so bent out of shape by laws and prospecting lawyers that the "justice" of it's original purpose has to a large extent been lost.


Given:

What is or is not "poaching" is defined by law, mostly by ever-growing bureaucracies that keep expanding to justify their purpose and keep hiring more and more people into government jobs that cost far more than they produce, and that consume vast amounts of precious resources very inefficiently in the process. Both natural resources consumed and polluted or destroyed by their infrastructure, and societal resources in terms of over-taxation and over-regulation of the private sector that supports their very expensive parasitic existence.


Given:

As human beings, if humanity is to survive, we have a higher level of moral laws to consider seriously and wisely. These are laws of nature, or laws under God, or laws of what's right and wrong in living together as a society and a culture in ways that might help us secure a better future for ourselves and for humanity that follows after we are gone. As human beings we have the ability to ponder and perhaps understand the importance of protecting and managing the environment in which we live. This includes our environment in nature, in application of the knowledge and experience we accumulate as individuals, in the institutions of civil society that helps bind and lubricate us together as a nation of citizens and as a culture, and our environment of crass politics of ego, greed and power that bends everything the hell out of shape.


Therefore:

To this end, we must do our best to recognize and make personal decisions and personal choices to the best of our ability that will preserve, replace and build further the precious resources that sustain us, and that will improve our chances of managing and surviving into the future as nations, as cultures and as humans beings.

Whether what we have done is defined as dastardly "poaching" (spitooey!) or legal sport fishing because of some piece of paper we paid for, or because of what side of some arbitrary line we might be on, why are we destroying the lives of so many magnificent living creatures at all? Why do we hunt and fish with such lust and passion to turn the natural wildlife around us into tasty fish tacos?

When we catch a 21" fish that must be 22" according to law, and we throw it back on the water to die or to be scooped up by a bird, which technical laws of some government bureaucracy have we obeyed and which moral laws of nature have we broken, ... or not? Where is our proper position in the food chain and under the laws of Natural Selection and Darwinism. After all, we are born as omnivores, right? So is it our natural purpose to kill and be killed? Perhaps this is where the word "hypocrisy" might come in. This is something we have to define for ourselves.

After someone has been arrested, tried and punished under government regulations and laws, why is it then proper, or moral or just to rehash this subject again in the court of public opinion by dredging up an old character assassination propaganda article by the National Park Service because you could link it to the name of an individual who is local and among us as a fellow fishing enthusiast, and then attack him again by calling out the name of his business and livelihood in the title of this thread? The work he does in his business not only helps support him and his family, but by surviving in the private sector, he no doubt pays huge amounts of taxes (direct, indirect and hidden), that help support the bloated armies of government workers who do little or nothing to support themselves at very great expense to taxpayers and a free society in general.

Obviously you have stirred up some passions here and you have several people who want to support your call for a boycott to punish this person further. Again, we have to ponder and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong, legally and morally, and how we want to define our own lives as good citizens and thoughtful human beings who are trying to do the right things in life. Thinking about the meaning of hypocrisy and how it might apply to the conversation of this thread is good food for thought. No doubt about that.

Technically, legally, as far as attacking a person's reputation and trying to destroy the income of his business, and knowing the way lawyers like to stir things up with the kinds of leverage they can apply, I would guess you are already in the legal gray zone here. If I was the target of your personal attack myself, I might want to rightfully lash back, legally and morally, to protect myself, my family, my business and my means of support. Just trying to see the bigger picture here and avoid making problems worse.

This shit flies all directions and can splatter everyone. Opinions vary widely.

Lets go destroy more old, huge, beautiful, delicious, innocent fish legally.
Fish tacos, yay!


[/sarcasm]

[/morning coffee]


Seriously, have a nice day

Life is sweet. Live and let live.

This was surprisingly candid and I appreciate your contribution to the discussion. I am with on the most of the "givens" of your post. I too agree with the gray area of law and interpretation of law stemming from bureaucracy.

To answer your question on why bring it up is because that's the best way to develop ideas for me. To discuss them and be open to outside opinion. Reading the article, a judgement is made by pooling other peoples experiences, knowledge and opinions I am better able to make a better judgement.

That being said a little ways into the "Therefore" I still understand where you're coming from but would like to add.


There's a difference in grey area offences that tread the line and clear disregard for the line. Here comes another OPINION, its not necessarily about a single offence for me, according to the article the man killed multiple bucks in a protected area (repeated) and claimed records. Well to me that's just plain old cheating and unfair to the other hunters who abide by the law and do not have the same fair chance at the record. I compare this to fishing la jolla during a bay only tournament then coming back to the bay and claiming you caught your 37 lb yellowtail in the bay. But I for one, believe in second chances as I've made mistakes and I do not want to be judged for them but by how I have adjusted my course as a result.

I've actually changed my opinion throughout this thread to a more neutral one, nor boycott nor buy. But there was no way for me to lead to change of opinion without additional information. This is why I appreciate an open discussion and the other guys who actually know what's happened in the last 8 years. Although old news to some, this is new to me as I've never seen or heard it before.

Every consumer has a right to make their own informed decisions and choose what business to support with their hard earned money.

P.S. There is never any call to boycott the product (not my intention), merely stated that I didn't think I would purchase(personal choice) it given the limited information available to me.

Also, I don't consider posting an article and an opinion a personal attack. An attack would be pushing one side of a narrative and I feel I have opened this up for discussion from both sides as well as a ideological debate.

Anyways - hope this comes off right as it often doesn't through written word.

Fish on and Tight Lines.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Points taken, Denis. I look forward to meeting you in person someday.

[Dirty Curti]

Personally, Thank goodness for second chances! And that's all I needed was a second chance. Learn from your mistakes. Or don't get caught!

Now in regards to the "HOOK-UP BAITS"... I do a lot of surf fishing as well so I use these artificials on the yak and on the beach. But I like Lucky Craft's more when on the beach. So when I go surf fishing my Son has a Hook-up bait and I have the LC to see what is biting what. So far this year I am skunked and my Son has three Halibut.

We also tried them on the water in the lagoon (C'bad) and he went for about 10 fish and I caught 1.

So they do work.

I like talking more about fishing than politics...Just sayin'.

[etolentino13]

Originally Posted by Mr. NiceGuy

1. That National Park Service article sounds way overmodulated to me, as a blanket PR-hype threat to everyone in general that they are bad-ass and they are going to bust you without mercy and crush you like a bug.

2. It sounds like the people they went after as alleged criminals were convicted as part of a plea bargain on charges much less than all the wild innuendo in the first half of the article.

3. If it was tried, convicted and punished, ... and therefore resolved several years ago, then why rehash this again now as a new blog trial and punishment based on gossip, NPS hype, propaganda and unfounded, non-legal speculation that was not part of the original conviction, sentence and punishment?


It's done. Stick a fork in it.

Put away your tar and feathers.

It's not your job to try to destroy his business now as a self-appointed SJW vigilante and executioner.


Focus your attention on improving your own life, mind your own business and let sleeping dogs lie.

[Saba Slayer]

X-2...

"It's done. Stick a fork in it.

Put away your tar and feathers.

It's not your job to try to destroy his business now as a self-appointed SJW vigilante and executioner.

Focus your attention on improving your own life, mind your own business and let sleeping dogs lie."

[monkeyfishturds]

On May 25th, 2010, Narasky pled guilty to hunting in Yosemite National Park and possession of a weapon in the park. He was sentenced to a $7,500 fine, 24 months of unsupervised probation and forfeiture of all of his hunting equipment seized in the field. Additionally, Narasky agreed to stay outside of Yosemite National Park's boundaries for the duration of his probation.

On May 25th, 2010, Chris Gierlich pled guilty to 14 of 17 counts in Federal Court. These counts included three counts of hunting within Yosemite National Park, three counts of violating the Lacey Act and three counts of possession of a weapon within Yosemite National Park.

On May 25th, 2010, Chad Gierlich pled guilty to nine of 17 counts in Federal Court. These counts included three counts of hunting within Yosemite National Park, three counts of violating the Lacey Act and three counts of possession of a weapon within Yosemite National Park.

Chad Gierlich, Chris Gierlich, Kyle Narasky received sentences from Mono County Judge Stan Eller including up to 60 days in jail, between two and ten years hunting license revocation, three years probation, $1,000 fine, up to 200 hours community service.

On Tuesday, October 19th, 2010, Chad and Chris Gierlich were sentenced in Federal Court. Chris received sentencing including five years of supervised probation, 250 hours of community service, and 45 days of house arrest. Additionally, Chris is prohibited from hunting within the United States for five years, is not allowed to be in the presence of anyone hunting, and is not allowed to possess a bow and arrow.

Chad Gierlich’s sentence in federal court included five years of supervised probation and a $52,368 fine. Additionally, Chad is prohibited from hunting within the United States for five years, prohibited from being in the presence of other hunters, and is not allowed to possess a bow and arrow. He is not allowed in Yosemite for the duration of his probation.

I wouldn't call that a little mistake. This is a guy that doesn't care about anything but himself. As far as hook up baits? I don't know what all the hype is about. Tube baits with garlic scent has been around forever in trout fishing, let alone bass and ocean.