Classic Outback vs Pro Angler question, hopefully a unique and challenging case... - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Flounder · 09-20-2020, 11:22 PM

I have a pa12 and use a ob on occasion for ocean fishing. I grew up fishing rivers with driftboats and yakking with sit ins. As long as you don’t have to portage the pa would do well with the extra loads draft is still pretty shallow, but you won’t make it upstream paddling very long. It’s responsiveness is that of a canoe but if you understand that you could pull it off. Hell my pa is smaller than my first canoe that I took down the river all the time. Also the double steering handles get in the way of the paddle all the time, takes some getting used to.

JohnMckroidJr · 09-21-2020, 01:56 AM

I have used the new outback for about a year, and have used the PA14 for 5 years. A sail rudder on the PA helps reduce the sluggishness. Never done anything but saltwater fishing with both. If you are not in a hurry to get anywhere, the PA is so much more comfortable than the Outback. Good luck with your decision.

monstahfish · 09-21-2020, 09:11 AM

Here's some good info on this from people who do it all the time and have all the options available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0xTALYbWE

absentx · 09-21-2020, 01:03 PM

ah great video! They definitely make the case there.

But, I have also severely bent my conventional Mirage drive doing the same thing. I assume the new kick up fins would make all the difference in a rocky river situation.

There are a lot of scenarios though where things can get ugly in a shallow river with a mirage drive. First lets say you beached it or have to get out of your boat to move it to another location to regain depth...well, the drive is impossible to get out of a boat that has no clearance below it, plus you would have to bungee the drive into the foot forward position while you are out of the boat otherwise the second you get it to deeper water your fins are falling down again and running into stuff.

@flounder that is kind of what I figured re the canoe comment. It can't be worse than a canoe, so I figured that might make it okay...but again, I don't even take my drive along on this ten day trip because the River is so shallow and the drive would just get in the way.

However - a drive with kick up fins that would avoid damage, might all of the sudden be an asset. Usually we view this trip as a one way trip. If you pass a hole, that's it. To be able to hover over a hole or adjust to hit better casting spots with the foot drive would be amazing.

monstahfish · 09-22-2020, 09:52 AM

Two things to keep in mind on the new outback and 360, their drives are more recessed than other models. Combine that with kickup fins and you're pretty solid. I did win a fishing kayak whitewater competition on the new outback when it was debuted at paddlesports retailer, though most of the other companies declined to enter. I was surprised cause Jackson had a booth right there and I would suspect a coosa which is a paddle kayak designed for light whitewater would have given me a run for my money. Also the front hatch on the new outback is only a half inch smaller or something and there is probably more volume inside and it's got a much bigger tankwell. The PA12 is super stable and has tons of storage too. I think your best bet is to go to a dealer and see what you feel most comfortable with.

absentx · 09-22-2020, 12:42 PM

Yes the larger tank well in the new outback is definitely appealing. I am pretty sure I measured it last year when I went to look at it and you could put a Yeti 65 back there with no mods, which is quite the appeal for this trip I do.

Is there a way on the PA to keep a paddle "at the ready" off to the right or left like on the Outback? I would most likely rig something up on the H-rail if not.

The problem if I go down the PA route is I would probably just want to get the 360, I mean it seems pretty amazing, but I have no idea where things are in the product cycle for a new model year, improvements based off the initial roll out etc. Are they even coming out with new model years this year with the Pandemic etc? Has the 360 been well received or seen largely as a really expensive toy that no one buys? I really hope it's doing well, it seems amazing.

jruiz · 09-22-2020, 02:02 PM

I feel that I wouldn't be able to reliably answer your question without experiencing this private/secluded cabin first hand for a minimum of one week. Only then will I be able to settle this debate. I will bring an outback but would need a PA supplied to make a comparison. If there are honey holes on this body of water, please send the coordinates via pm. You're welcome

09-20-2020, 11:22 PM	#1
Flounder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 101	I have a pa12 and use a ob on occasion for ocean fishing. I grew up fishing rivers with driftboats and yakking with sit ins. As long as you don’t have to portage the pa would do well with the extra loads draft is still pretty shallow, but you won’t make it upstream paddling very long. It’s responsiveness is that of a canoe but if you understand that you could pull it off. Hell my pa is smaller than my first canoe that I took down the river all the time. Also the double steering handles get in the way of the paddle all the time, takes some getting used to.

09-21-2020, 01:56 AM	#2
JohnMckroidJr Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 1,874	I have used the new outback for about a year, and have used the PA14 for 5 years. A sail rudder on the PA helps reduce the sluggishness. Never done anything but saltwater fishing with both. If you are not in a hurry to get anywhere, the PA is so much more comfortable than the Outback. Good luck with your decision.

09-21-2020, 09:11 AM	#3
monstahfish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 406	Here's some good info on this from people who do it all the time and have all the options available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0xTALYbWE

09-21-2020, 01:03 PM	#4
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	ah great video! They definitely make the case there. But, I have also severely bent my conventional Mirage drive doing the same thing. I assume the new kick up fins would make all the difference in a rocky river situation. There are a lot of scenarios though where things can get ugly in a shallow river with a mirage drive. First lets say you beached it or have to get out of your boat to move it to another location to regain depth...well, the drive is impossible to get out of a boat that has no clearance below it, plus you would have to bungee the drive into the foot forward position while you are out of the boat otherwise the second you get it to deeper water your fins are falling down again and running into stuff. @flounder that is kind of what I figured re the canoe comment. It can't be worse than a canoe, so I figured that might make it okay...but again, I don't even take my drive along on this ten day trip because the River is so shallow and the drive would just get in the way. However - a drive with kick up fins that would avoid damage, might all of the sudden be an asset. Usually we view this trip as a one way trip. If you pass a hole, that's it. To be able to hover over a hole or adjust to hit better casting spots with the foot drive would be amazing.

09-22-2020, 09:52 AM	#5
monstahfish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 406	Two things to keep in mind on the new outback and 360, their drives are more recessed than other models. Combine that with kickup fins and you're pretty solid. I did win a fishing kayak whitewater competition on the new outback when it was debuted at paddlesports retailer, though most of the other companies declined to enter. I was surprised cause Jackson had a booth right there and I would suspect a coosa which is a paddle kayak designed for light whitewater would have given me a run for my money. Also the front hatch on the new outback is only a half inch smaller or something and there is probably more volume inside and it's got a much bigger tankwell. The PA12 is super stable and has tons of storage too. I think your best bet is to go to a dealer and see what you feel most comfortable with.

09-22-2020, 12:42 PM	#6
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	Yes the larger tank well in the new outback is definitely appealing. I am pretty sure I measured it last year when I went to look at it and you could put a Yeti 65 back there with no mods, which is quite the appeal for this trip I do. Is there a way on the PA to keep a paddle "at the ready" off to the right or left like on the Outback? I would most likely rig something up on the H-rail if not. The problem if I go down the PA route is I would probably just want to get the 360, I mean it seems pretty amazing, but I have no idea where things are in the product cycle for a new model year, improvements based off the initial roll out etc. Are they even coming out with new model years this year with the Pandemic etc? Has the 360 been well received or seen largely as a really expensive toy that no one buys? I really hope it's doing well, it seems amazing.

09-22-2020, 02:02 PM	#7
jruiz Large Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: La Verne, CA Posts: 1,002	I feel that I wouldn't be able to reliably answer your question without experiencing this private/secluded cabin first hand for a minimum of one week. Only then will I be able to settle this debate. I will bring an outback but would need a PA supplied to make a comparison. If there are honey holes on this body of water, please send the coordinates via pm. You're welcome