Smoking and the MLPA - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

AquaticHunter · 10-16-2010, 10:11 PM

What does smoking have to do with the MLPA? Nothing and everything.

Once upon a time you could light up a cigarette anywhere you wanted if you were so inclined. Aside from a rare owner of private property (like my parents) asking politely for someone go outside, there were no laws hindering someone from enjoying a legal activity on private or public property.

Then one day someone with very unscientific data on second hand smoke (let’s call them smoking Nazis for name sake) came up with a “reasonable plan.” They decided to force private property owners to enforce a small “non smoking section” in their restaurants. Who could disagree? It was just a small area that this legal activity could not be enjoyed.

The restaurant owners meekly objected based on their mistaken belief that business would suffer and not on stronger constitutional grounds. Ends up it didn’t hurt business.

Soon the smoking Nazis were emboldened to ask for more legislation reversing it into the small “smoking section” at the back of the restaurant.

Some smokers actually went along with the scheme claiming to be “enlightened” and were glad to have some freedoms taken away from themselves because they (or to keep it accurate.. their spouse) would be forced to quit smoking because of the new laws and wouldn’t stink so much.

About this time they created a smoking section and relegated it to the back of commercial airline flights.

Seeing how few people objected to the previous smoking bans, they were emboldened to go for what they really wanted all along.

They next banned all smoking on flights under 2 hours. Next they banned smoking on all commercial flights. Next they banned smoking in all restaurants. Next they banned smoking in all bars so the smokers were forced to go outside. Next they banned smoking OUTSIDE of restaurants and bars. Next they banned smoking in campgrounds, beaches, parking lots, cars, condominiums and who knows what’s next.

It’s easy for the smoking Nazis to pass any smoking ban at this point and it hardly gets an objection. Freedom loving smokers are done fighting. It’s still a legal activity but where can someone go outside their residence to enjoy that legal activity?

So what does smoking have to do with the MLPA? Learn from the smoking analogy. Once we lose the smoking section in the back of the restaurant… it’s all over.

Incrementally they take the entire thing.

Be there on October 20, 2010

bmercury · 10-16-2010, 11:24 PM

Yes smoking is good

Also last time I checked your smoking kills other people, your fishing typically does not.

Nic D · 10-17-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmercury

Yes smoking is good

Also last time I checked your smoking kills other people, your fishing typically does not.

not being able to fish La Jolla would kill me...

old_rookie · 10-17-2010, 07:37 AM

but you can still smoke in your house, in your car, on your patio, front yard, backyard, at the park... I can't fish at my house... well... the way my pool is turning green maybe I can.

StinkyMatt · 10-17-2010, 06:52 PM

I see the passion...
The analogy is faulty.

Smoking has no benefit to anyone , not even the smoker. (At most you can reach and say it calms them, or helps them with their nerves.)
Smoking has tremendous costs associated with it, which often times the smoker does not pay for.

Fishing benefits:
fisherman,
the local businesses,
provides a recreational activity,
and even the city/ state governments who collect taxes and fees from us.

When a poor analogy is used it may take away from the very valid points that we need to present to protect our right to fish.

tony · 10-17-2010, 07:48 PM

I'm sure PETA and similar organizations would agree that this analogy is spot on.........
Because .....
Fishing is a cruel and barbaric activity.
C&R is just as cruel because Sea Kittens feel pain.
Losing the business and taxes is a necessary step to eliminating the pain and suffering brought upon this world by fishermen.
There is no need for anyone to fish period.
Eating fish is hazardous to your health.
Etc, etc, etc.........

Dont fool yourself.....
A large percentage of the people behind these closures want to eliminate fishing...period....
The rest dont give a flying rats ass about fishing because it doesnt affect them, so "saving the environment" and rescuing Sea Kittens sounds reasonable and the politically correct thing to do.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.....This is the point Aquatic Hunter is making

If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresistingly allow itself to be boiled to death. - Daniel Quinn

Oh...and you lobster guys are the worst....boiling Sea Kittens alive
Hmmm....Steak and lobster....I'm getting hungry.....but I think I'll have a smoke first....

StinkyMatt · 10-17-2010, 09:12 PM

Hey Tony, you may be right about something here.....Logic and reason are not always understood by all. PETA fanatics are probably exactly the way you describe. Crap......if we can't use logic and reason...we are screwed!

AquaticHunter · 10-18-2010, 01:03 PM

I think most people get the point.

We don't want to lose this battle because it's only a matter of time before they go for what they really want. The smoking nazis initially said they only wanted a small section in the back of the restaurant off limits to smoking. Maybe 10% of the total square footage. Sound familiar? They knew they would have never been able to pass what they really wanted at one time so they lied.

The scary part of the smoking analogy is that at 43, all this has happened in my adult lifetime. We're losing freedoms at an alarmingly fast rate.

Riskey Water · 10-18-2010, 02:59 PM

The main point of this topic is GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS PIECE BY PIECE to those that feel its Wrong to take a fraction OF THE THE TOTAL FISH COUNT. We are THE MINORITY so who will listen if WE DON'T SPEAK UP There are many on this board who are MORE INFORMED and EDUCATED to read between the lines of what is HAPPENING TO OUR RIGHTS .So please don't lose sight of the goal and EFFORTS of those trying to help .I'm no lawyer and I do not understand the DOUBLE TALK of what is trying to be passed , but I do TRUST THOSE THAT ARE SPEAKING FOR US. Thank You

Gino · 10-18-2010, 03:42 PM

we are the minority. We should call the ACLU

roadx · 10-18-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

The main point of this topic is GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS PIECE BY PIECE

like i said before.......

take my rights today and they will be after yours next

dsafety · 10-18-2010, 09:08 PM

This is a very interesting conversation. AquaticHunter got it right when he compared the anti-smoking revolution to what we are facing. Those who smoke have witnessed the freedom to enjoy their addiction slowly but inevitably disappear. The same could happen to those of us who enjoy fishing in our coastal waters.

The big difference is that smoking is a chemical addiction and a health hazard, both to those who participate and those who happen to be in the neighborhood. Protecting citizens from the harmful effects of first and second hand smoking is a reasonable thing. Many smokers probably resent the direction things have gone but if they ever manage to kick the habit, most will be happy, maybe even grateful.

Fishing does not share those characteristics. It is an healthy, non invasive activity that many enjoy. It does not, even with the fuzziest logic, endanger other citizens. Unfortunately, some the tactics that sent smokers to the alley, seem to be very similar to what our opponents appear to be using now. AquaticHunter is right and we have every reason to be worried.

Bob

cowboybill · 10-19-2010, 06:51 AM

Hey, the analogy is spot on, when looked at from the standpoint of FREEDOM! And how they get taken away one step at a time.

There are probably better analogies, but WTF...

We are all on one side, and need to support each other, not nit-pick over details...

Cowboybill

Billy V · 10-19-2010, 05:46 PM

How about this analogy.....

Tomorrow the Eco Nazis will attempt to administer intracardiac Phenol injections as part of their ethnic cleansing program to rid this state of Fisherman.

Much like the Nazis did at Auschwitz during the euthanasia program.
------------------

You like that better ?

10-16-2010, 10:11 PM	#1
AquaticHunter Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park Posts: 51	Smoking and the MLPA What does smoking have to do with the MLPA? Nothing and everything. Once upon a time you could light up a cigarette anywhere you wanted if you were so inclined. Aside from a rare owner of private property (like my parents) asking politely for someone go outside, there were no laws hindering someone from enjoying a legal activity on private or public property. Then one day someone with very unscientific data on second hand smoke (let’s call them smoking Nazis for name sake) came up with a “reasonable plan.” They decided to force private property owners to enforce a small “non smoking section” in their restaurants. Who could disagree? It was just a small area that this legal activity could not be enjoyed. The restaurant owners meekly objected based on their mistaken belief that business would suffer and not on stronger constitutional grounds. Ends up it didn’t hurt business. Soon the smoking Nazis were emboldened to ask for more legislation reversing it into the small “smoking section” at the back of the restaurant. Some smokers actually went along with the scheme claiming to be “enlightened” and were glad to have some freedoms taken away from themselves because they (or to keep it accurate.. their spouse) would be forced to quit smoking because of the new laws and wouldn’t stink so much. About this time they created a smoking section and relegated it to the back of commercial airline flights. Seeing how few people objected to the previous smoking bans, they were emboldened to go for what they really wanted all along. They next banned all smoking on flights under 2 hours. Next they banned smoking on all commercial flights. Next they banned smoking in all restaurants. Next they banned smoking in all bars so the smokers were forced to go outside. Next they banned smoking OUTSIDE of restaurants and bars. Next they banned smoking in campgrounds, beaches, parking lots, cars, condominiums and who knows what’s next. It’s easy for the smoking Nazis to pass any smoking ban at this point and it hardly gets an objection. Freedom loving smokers are done fighting. It’s still a legal activity but where can someone go outside their residence to enjoy that legal activity? So what does smoking have to do with the MLPA? Learn from the smoking analogy. Once we lose the smoking section in the back of the restaurant… it’s all over. Incrementally they take the entire thing. Be there on October 20, 2010 __________________ CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof...

10-17-2010, 07:48 PM	#6
tony Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: La Jolla Posts: 130	I'm sure PETA and similar organizations would agree that this analogy is spot on......... Because ..... Fishing is a cruel and barbaric activity. C&R is just as cruel because Sea Kittens feel pain. Losing the business and taxes is a necessary step to eliminating the pain and suffering brought upon this world by fishermen. There is no need for anyone to fish period. Eating fish is hazardous to your health. Etc, etc, etc......... Dont fool yourself..... A large percentage of the people behind these closures want to eliminate fishing...period.... The rest dont give a flying rats ass about fishing because it doesnt affect them, so "saving the environment" and rescuing Sea Kittens sounds reasonable and the politically correct thing to do. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.....This is the point Aquatic Hunter is making If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresistingly allow itself to be boiled to death. - Daniel Quinn Oh...and you lobster guys are the worst....boiling Sea Kittens alive Hmmm....Steak and lobster....I'm getting hungry.....but I think I'll have a smoke first.... Last edited by tony; 10-17-2010 at 08:23 PM.

10-18-2010, 01:03 PM	#8
AquaticHunter Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park Posts: 51	I think most people get the point. We don't want to lose this battle because it's only a matter of time before they go for what they really want. The smoking nazis initially said they only wanted a small section in the back of the restaurant off limits to smoking. Maybe 10% of the total square footage. Sound familiar? They knew they would have never been able to pass what they really wanted at one time so they lied. The scary part of the smoking analogy is that at 43, all this has happened in my adult lifetime. We're losing freedoms at an alarmingly fast rate. __________________ CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof...

10-19-2010, 06:51 AM	#13
cowboybill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, CA Posts: 103	Missing the point! Hey, the analogy is spot on, when looked at from the standpoint of FREEDOM! And how they get taken away one step at a time. There are probably better analogies, but WTF... We are all on one side, and need to support each other, not nit-pick over details... Cowboybill

10-19-2010, 05:46 PM	#14
Billy V Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Ho Posts: 1,382	How about this analogy..... Tomorrow the Eco Nazis will attempt to administer intracardiac Phenol injections as part of their ethnic cleansing program to rid this state of Fisherman. Much like the Nazis did at Auschwitz during the euthanasia program. ------------------ You like that better ? __________________

10-16-2010, 11:24 PM	#2
bmercury Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 103	Yes smoking is good Also last time I checked your smoking kills other people, your fishing typically does not.

10-17-2010, 07:37 AM	#4
old_rookie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Santee Posts: 904	but you can still smoke in your house, in your car, on your patio, front yard, backyard, at the park... I can't fish at my house... well... the way my pool is turning green maybe I can.

10-17-2010, 06:52 PM	#5
StinkyMatt Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Under a bridge Posts: 2,168	I see the passion... The analogy is faulty. Smoking has no benefit to anyone , not even the smoker. (At most you can reach and say it calms them, or helps them with their nerves.) Smoking has tremendous costs associated with it, which often times the smoker does not pay for. Fishing benefits: fisherman, the local businesses, provides a recreational activity, and even the city/ state governments who collect taxes and fees from us. When a poor analogy is used it may take away from the very valid points that we need to present to protect our right to fish.

10-17-2010, 09:12 PM	#7
StinkyMatt Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Under a bridge Posts: 2,168	Hey Tony, you may be right about something here.....Logic and reason are not always understood by all. PETA fanatics are probably exactly the way you describe. Crap......if we can't use logic and reason...we are screwed!

10-18-2010, 02:59 PM	#9
Riskey Water Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: On the water ofcourse Posts: 142	The main point of this topic is GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS PIECE BY PIECE to those that feel its Wrong to take a fraction OF THE THE TOTAL FISH COUNT. We are THE MINORITY so who will listen if WE DON'T SPEAK UP There are many on this board who are MORE INFORMED and EDUCATED to read between the lines of what is HAPPENING TO OUR RIGHTS .So please don't lose sight of the goal and EFFORTS of those trying to help .I'm no lawyer and I do not understand the DOUBLE TALK of what is trying to be passed , but I do TRUST THOSE THAT ARE SPEAKING FOR US. Thank You

10-18-2010, 03:42 PM	#10
Gino Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 520	we are the minority. We should call the ACLU

10-18-2010, 09:08 PM	#12
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	This is a very interesting conversation. AquaticHunter got it right when he compared the anti-smoking revolution to what we are facing. Those who smoke have witnessed the freedom to enjoy their addiction slowly but inevitably disappear. The same could happen to those of us who enjoy fishing in our coastal waters. The big difference is that smoking is a chemical addiction and a health hazard, both to those who participate and those who happen to be in the neighborhood. Protecting citizens from the harmful effects of first and second hand smoking is a reasonable thing. Many smokers probably resent the direction things have gone but if they ever manage to kick the habit, most will be happy, maybe even grateful. Fishing does not share those characteristics. It is an healthy, non invasive activity that many enjoy. It does not, even with the fuzziest logic, endanger other citizens. Unfortunately, some the tactics that sent smokers to the alley, seem to be very similar to what our opponents appear to be using now. AquaticHunter is right and we have every reason to be worried. Bob

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