Carlsbad desalination plant - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

asystole · 04-03-2009, 08:33 AM

Anyone have information on this? In particular what kind of true effect it will have on the marine environment. I have read some of the information on the Surfrider website but would like to read the other side of it.

Dave

dorf · 04-03-2009, 09:46 AM

All you have to do is Google "desalination marine impact"

There are loads of reports from both sides that show an environmental impact on Marine life, most notably at the microorganism level. You would think that the initial impact on the larger forms of marine life would be affected and that life would go on as usual around the intake pipes after a while. Unfortunately most people do not think about what they do not see. The little micro organisms that are at the bottom of the food chain are sucked up into these systems and killed in the process. That means that the larger organisms that feed on these microorganism have less (or worse no) food to eat and the chain continues up to the top.
There is also a concern about the greenhouse impact. It would appear that most companies are trying hard to reduce their greenhouse gasses by exploring other avenues of energy production for these plants. Based on the findings I have read they need to find a way to better filter their intake lines.

Back in 2006 an article in Science magazine, several of the world’s leading marine biologists concluded that, if bad fishing practices continued, in a worse-case scenario all fish and seafood species worldwide would crash by 2048. With many countries implementing, or looking into implementing a desalinization program it really makes you wonder.

I am in favor of desalinization but lets do it right.

Richard Carter · 04-03-2009, 03:28 PM

Dave,
I have worked in the power plant industry for many years and have become very familiar with the process. I believe that the Carlsbad project should be looked at relative to the alternatives and in practicle terms. I agree that some micro organisms will get killed. I also would suggest that the number of the little guys that killed compared to what the 50 year old power plant at that location is miniscule. If you take any boat rides that has an engine you should note that the same kind of little guys are getting killed by your boat's engine water cooling intake. I personnaly believe that killing a few of those little guys is no big deal.

That last statement is probably going to stir up someone....
Rick

dsafety · 04-03-2009, 04:31 PM

I like to think of myself as a realistic environmentalist. I believe that we should do whatever reasonable things we can to protect our planet and the other creatures that we live among, (except for mosquitos and gophers).

That said, we should always remember that there are some things that we simply cannot do without. Water is one of those things. It seems to me that growing our own water here has to be better for the environment than importing water from hundreds or thousands of miles away.

If technology has advanced to the point to where we can safely and economically desalinate seawater, I'm all for it. If this thing works as advertised, I can see this leading to the day when the rivers up north once again run wild and are filled with salmon.

If coastal regions such as Southern California find a way to produce as much water as they need, all the water we currenly take from the Colorado, Sacramento rivers can be used elsewhere. Think about how much more food could be grown in the central valley if there was no water shortage.

Carrying this thought to the next level, what if producing fresh water form the sea became a big thing in this region. If we learn how to make more than we need, we could export the water to dry inland areas creating jobs and stimulating the economy.

Don't get me wrong. If desalinization causes more harm than good, I'm against it but from what I have heard lately, this is not the case.

Bob

fishchaser25 · 04-05-2009, 09:00 AM

My question is where are they going to put all the by product????

troutnut · 04-05-2009, 10:19 AM

Compared to the ecological disaster that diverting so much water from the California delta has and continues to cause, the effects of the marine environment will be minor.

My cousin is an engineer on the de-sal project in Sydney, Au. He has worked all over the world, and we lag far behind all the other countries. It is pretty amazing technology. In Sydney, the by-product brine water is combined with treated wastewater to dilute the saltiness and then pumped offshore and released in a manner so that the salinity difference is undetectable 100-200 feet away from the outlet, depending on the tides. The intake velocity is less than 0.1 mps so most organisms can swim away from it. Lawrence Livermore Labs is working on carbon nanotube technology which will greatly increase the ability to remove salt vs. reverse osmosis process, with lower energy use, making it more cost effective.

asystole · 04-06-2009, 09:37 PM

Thanks for the info. I have also found info on the web and there is a lot to digest. We do need to do something to get the water we need in Socal and this may be the answer.

04-03-2009, 08:33 AM	#1
asystole Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 48	Carlsbad desalination plant Anyone have information on this? In particular what kind of true effect it will have on the marine environment. I have read some of the information on the Surfrider website but would like to read the other side of it. Dave

04-03-2009, 09:46 AM	#2
dorf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 279	All you have to do is Google "desalination marine impact" There are loads of reports from both sides that show an environmental impact on Marine life, most notably at the microorganism level. You would think that the initial impact on the larger forms of marine life would be affected and that life would go on as usual around the intake pipes after a while. Unfortunately most people do not think about what they do not see. The little micro organisms that are at the bottom of the food chain are sucked up into these systems and killed in the process. That means that the larger organisms that feed on these microorganism have less (or worse no) food to eat and the chain continues up to the top. There is also a concern about the greenhouse impact. It would appear that most companies are trying hard to reduce their greenhouse gasses by exploring other avenues of energy production for these plants. Based on the findings I have read they need to find a way to better filter their intake lines. Back in 2006 an article in Science magazine, several of the world’s leading marine biologists concluded that, if bad fishing practices continued, in a worse-case scenario all fish and seafood species worldwide would crash by 2048. With many countries implementing, or looking into implementing a desalinization program it really makes you wonder. I am in favor of desalinization but lets do it right. __________________ Don't try to confuse me with facts! I hereby reject your reality and submit my own.

04-05-2009, 09:00 AM	#5
fishchaser25 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Riverside Posts: 97	My question is where are they going to put all the by product???? __________________ Fishing is not a hobby! It's a way of life!

04-03-2009, 03:28 PM	#3
Richard Carter Junior Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1	Dave, I have worked in the power plant industry for many years and have become very familiar with the process. I believe that the Carlsbad project should be looked at relative to the alternatives and in practicle terms. I agree that some micro organisms will get killed. I also would suggest that the number of the little guys that killed compared to what the 50 year old power plant at that location is miniscule. If you take any boat rides that has an engine you should note that the same kind of little guys are getting killed by your boat's engine water cooling intake. I personnaly believe that killing a few of those little guys is no big deal. That last statement is probably going to stir up someone.... Rick

04-03-2009, 04:31 PM	#4
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	I like to think of myself as a realistic environmentalist. I believe that we should do whatever reasonable things we can to protect our planet and the other creatures that we live among, (except for mosquitos and gophers). That said, we should always remember that there are some things that we simply cannot do without. Water is one of those things. It seems to me that growing our own water here has to be better for the environment than importing water from hundreds or thousands of miles away. If technology has advanced to the point to where we can safely and economically desalinate seawater, I'm all for it. If this thing works as advertised, I can see this leading to the day when the rivers up north once again run wild and are filled with salmon. If coastal regions such as Southern California find a way to produce as much water as they need, all the water we currenly take from the Colorado, Sacramento rivers can be used elsewhere. Think about how much more food could be grown in the central valley if there was no water shortage. Carrying this thought to the next level, what if producing fresh water form the sea became a big thing in this region. If we learn how to make more than we need, we could export the water to dry inland areas creating jobs and stimulating the economy. Don't get me wrong. If desalinization causes more harm than good, I'm against it but from what I have heard lately, this is not the case. Bob

04-05-2009, 10:19 AM	#6
troutnut Junior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Compared to the ecological disaster that diverting so much water from the California delta has and continues to cause, the effects of the marine environment will be minor. My cousin is an engineer on the de-sal project in Sydney, Au. He has worked all over the world, and we lag far behind all the other countries. It is pretty amazing technology. In Sydney, the by-product brine water is combined with treated wastewater to dilute the saltiness and then pumped offshore and released in a manner so that the salinity difference is undetectable 100-200 feet away from the outlet, depending on the tides. The intake velocity is less than 0.1 mps so most organisms can swim away from it. Lawrence Livermore Labs is working on carbon nanotube technology which will greatly increase the ability to remove salt vs. reverse osmosis process, with lower energy use, making it more cost effective.

04-06-2009, 09:37 PM	#7
asystole Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 48	Thanks for the info. I have also found info on the web and there is a lot to digest. We do need to do something to get the water we need in Socal and this may be the answer.