Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge   Visit WaterHorse Dive Charters

Go Back   Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge > Kayak Fishing Forum - Message Board > General Kayak Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2017, 09:00 AM   #41
jbl_91762
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheephead View Post
Great thread idea Chris! I love how your naming your sonar marks too!



For the first two pictures I'd like to welcome everyone to the promised land.

The third picture is a good example of how bait reacts to a school of yellowtail. Even if your not marking yt if you see bait behavingg this way you can tell if fosh are around.

Lastly, the 4th pic shows a single yt swimming through a small school of red crab. Yes my settings suck! For yhe 4th pic.

Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.
jbl_91762 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #42
jorluivil
Pro-Staff Everything
 
jorluivil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: With Your Ex In Your Ex-Apt
Posts: 6,553
This should be a sticky..............in the funny section.
__________________


www.facebook.com/Teamsewer
jorluivil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 10:34 AM   #43
oredith
Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 26
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
to
"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"

I ask because i couldn't really make heads or tails of what my old (came with the yak) hook-4x was telling me. there were no friendly eyebrow shapes. I was primarily using the FF as a depth finder, and just to see what was under me (soft vs. hard surface).

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one? or should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?
oredith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 03:24 PM   #44
ful-rac
Emperor
 
ful-rac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Buena Park
Posts: 3,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith View Post
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
If you mean on a scale of 1 to 10...10.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith View Post

"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith View Post

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one?
Yes, Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith View Post
should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?
No.
__________________
There's nothing colder than yesterday's hotdog.
ful-rac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 05:30 PM   #45
jimmyjones
Member
 
jimmyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 30
Hook 5 settings

What is a good starting point for settings for hook Five for local Waters 60 to150 ft thank you very much
jimmyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:17 PM   #46
Sheephead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by oredith View Post
much more basic question for the sonar pros here:

how much difference does color make, on a scale of
"if it's not in color, you might as well just hold an etch-a-sketch"
to
"with enough knowledge, a monochrome is as good as colored"

I ask because i couldn't really make heads or tails of what my old (came with the yak) hook-4x was telling me. there were no friendly eyebrow shapes. I was primarily using the FF as a depth finder, and just to see what was under me (soft vs. hard surface).

is color FF a "game changer", where I should really just ditch the old monochrome hook-4 and get a new(er) one? or should I try to learn with the old hook-4 before getting a newer FF?
I'd agree with color being very important. Before I went out with "The Darkhorse" I had my color down very low and although I wasn't exactly sure what to look for at the time low color definitely didn't help. Now I run 90-88% colorline (depending on the day) and it's amazing how much easier it is to identify fish.
Sheephead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:22 PM   #47
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by ful-rac View Post
If you mean on a scale of 1 to 10...10.




No.



Yes, Yes.



No.
Agree on all counts!
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:23 PM   #48
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveooo View Post
That was LJ, out in the sandy squid grounds. We caught yoyo YT off it.

One sonar setting that is worth putting into the discussion is Sonar Scroll Speed. It doesn’t change what you see on the meter, but it does change how it appears on the meter. I find setting a faster scroll speed will give me more of a real time picture of what is under the boat. It also gives more defined, and longer individual fish arches. Our kayaks move relatively slow, and sometimes we are chasing fish that move relatively fast (YT). I think of the slower scroll speed as the history channel, or “old news”, where sometimes what is shown on the meter is long gone, but it just hasn’t left the screen yet.

The best time to experiment with this setting is when making bait. With the new chirp units, adjusting scroll speed to a higher setting can make a bait ball go from looking like a cloud, to showing hundreds of individual tiny arches. IMO thats too much clutter for just making bait, but turning up the scroll speed also does the same for a school of YT, turning that mess of squiggly spaghetti hanging out under the kayak into more defined individual fish.

Fast scroll speed is my preference when yoyo fishing. When its there, its there. When dropper loop fishing or fishing for structure oriented fish, I’ll turn scroll speed back to normal, so I don’t blink and miss anything or leave an area prematurely. Normal or slower scroll speed is also good for giving a little more history of what the fish is doing under the kayak, e.g. showing a YT dive bombing your bait. Its really a matter of preference of how you want the fish & screen to look.

*disclaimer* I’ve caught many more fish through dumb luck than I have by using my sonar.

Good thread
Thanks for the info, and for joining in the conversation! As I said, I can be completely full of it!
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:25 PM   #49
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjones View Post
What is a good starting point for settings for hook Five for local Waters 60 to150 ft thank you very much
Hello jimmyjones,

Please refer to post #19. Start there and post your questions or screen shots after you have tried those settings.
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:32 PM   #50
Sheephead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbl_91762 View Post
Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.
Pics 1 and 2 are the promised lands. Fish you drop on and instantly get bit by.
Pic 3 was a really cool experience. Yes, you can see my bait being dropped down towards the school of feeding YT but the pattern was so specific this day that it was hard to get bit. The yellow/orange dense dots on the bottom is bait, in this case red crab. On the left side of the picture you can see the school expanding into mid water column and rising up off the bottom as soon as the YT were out of range. The crab were being pushed off the bottom by a school of rockfish, halibut, bass, you name it. As soon as the YT came through again the crab school would get pushed back to the bottom (you can clearly see the school of YT swimming above the school of crab densely packed on the bottom). Towards the right end of the picture you can see the school of YT swimming directly into the suspended school of crab that wasn't quick enough to get back towards the bottom.

Im guessing the reason the YT were able to separate the school is because the crabs don't have lateral lines and because they were the furthest away from where the Yt entered the school they had less time to react to their presence.
Sheephead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 06:49 PM   #51
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbl_91762 View Post
Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.
Thanks JBL. Doesn't matter to me if it's sticky or not... as long as people want to keep discussing sonar theories and application, the thread will stick around.

Here's your rabbit hole, should you chose to take the blue pill...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q9izOwp1aU&t=4749s
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 08:56 PM   #52
Johnny Hirn
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 59
I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.
Johnny Hirn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 10:10 PM   #53
surfishiron
Junior
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5
If you dont know than now you know

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!yt.jpg
surfishiron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 08:12 AM   #54
ful-rac
Emperor
 
ful-rac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Buena Park
Posts: 3,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron View Post
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380


Taking in account your depth, I would say most likely it's not yellowtail. It's quite possible it might be depending upon the location you are fishing. You have your FF setting on Medium Chirp and are in shallow water so everything is going to be a bit stretched out, making objects appear to be larger than they would be on High Chirp. Also a wider cone angle covering more area thus displaying more information or more objects in the same amount of space. To me if I saw that on my FF at this current time in the area I fish, I would interpret that more than likely as Bonita, mixed with those little yellows that have been around lately, chasing around bait.

Providing key information might help...

Where were you fishing?
What kind of structure is nearby?
When was the screen shot taken?
Did you catch anything?

You never really can know with absolute certainty of what your seeing on your fish finder unless you are actually catching what you are seeing. And even then the other fish or objects you are seeing on screen can be something completely different from what you are catching. With local knowledge of an area, where certain species are known to congregate, this information can help to narrow down what your seeing on screen can likely be or likely not be.
__________________
There's nothing colder than yesterday's hotdog.
ful-rac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 09:06 AM   #55
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hirn View Post
I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.
Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 09:13 AM   #56
chris138
donkey roper
 
chris138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific Beach
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron View Post
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
for sure that's some bait balled up on the left... but not necessarily being predated on. Could just be really tight feeding on zooplankton. Definitely some faster, harder bodied fish cruising through there, but I would tend to agree with Tony that they don't look yellow for how shallow you are. could be you are catching the edge of a couple bigger fish swimming in the periphery of the cone. Settings look good though, other than being sideways your return has good target separation.
chris138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 09:20 AM   #57
Johnny Hirn
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris138 View Post
Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.
Thanks for the help!
Johnny Hirn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 10:08 AM   #58
ful-rac
Emperor
 
ful-rac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Buena Park
Posts: 3,492
Go ahead take a crack at it!

What could this be...?

__________________
There's nothing colder than yesterday's hotdog.
ful-rac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 04:26 PM   #59
GregAndrew
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron View Post
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
I would also agree that they do not look like large predators. The two schools of bait are different species on left and right. Left side I would bet are either Sardines or Herring. Right side I would bet on Spanish, but there are several other species that might fit that bill. Certainly not Greenies (color would be similar to the Left side and bigger marks), although the predators could be the larger versions of those.
__________________


GregAndrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 09:40 AM   #60
Denis_Ruso
Silver Spoon Crew
 
Denis_Ruso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfishiron View Post
hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380
I'll take a crack at it. Looking like a baitball on the beginning then looks to be a more like school of blue perch that hang out in the kelp at LJ. Not looking like YT marks to me, arches are too small and movement is too scattered.
__________________
2015 Hobie Revo 13 | 2012 Malibu Kayaks X-factor

I do not fear the storm as it will teach me how to sail my ship.
Denis_Ruso is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2002 Big Water's Edge. All rights reserved.