New Scientific Studies Make the Case for the Marine Life Protection Act - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

teto116 · 02-25-2010, 07:48 PM

some info i came across about the mlpa

http://www.californiaprogressreport....e/?q=node/7488

emrliquidlife · 02-25-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teto116

some info i came across about the mlpa

http://www.californiaprogressreport....e/?q=node/7488

Sadly there is no opportunity to provide comment to her writing.

Ed

dsafety · 02-25-2010, 09:51 PM

The most important paragraph in that piece is this one.

"This new research shows that California is on the right track with ocean policy. It adds to a large body of scientific evidence that proves that marine reserves, when designed using sound science, can benefit both fish and fishermen."

If the recommendations submitted by the BRTF were based on "sound science" I would not have a problem with all of this. Unfortunately, at least in my view, "sound science" took a back seat to special interest agendas and political gamesmanship.

Bob

Whizz Bang · 02-26-2010, 01:33 AM

Ha Ha Ha!!! Please do not post drivel.

"This new research shows that California is on the right track with ocean policy. It adds to a large body of scientific evidence that proves that marine reserves, when designed using sound science, can benefit both fish and fishermen."

What body of scientific evidence? What sound science? Where is the preponderance of evidence???

This is from an odorous granola crunching c@#t who has no idea what actually goes on under water. Why share it?

Look at her! She is an idiot! she has no great secret to share, only some stupidity the she was fed by some kindly fellows...........moving on.

Dan · 02-26-2010, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whizz Bang

What body of scientific evidence? What sound science? Where is the preponderance of evidence???

The reports are published in PNAS. I will need to read them at work today.

Whizz Bang · 02-26-2010, 08:07 AM

It is very convenient that this study came out when it did. Coincidence? Not likely. The granola lady and some friends just created a new model that will interpet the data in the manner they want. From what I read, they created this little computer model and fed it the same old sparse empirical data they had on hand and then pronounced that it shows MLPAs are good for everyone. Because it is an ocean with currents, and because fish have fins and swim around, they have a hard time counting them....it is far easier to just create a computer model that interpets old data and skews it the proper way. Not science so much as it is BS.

Anytime I see a "scientific report" by any group that has the words conservancy or protection attached to it, I get out my waders.

stairman · 02-26-2010, 09:10 AM

here are a few of the stories that are on that web site ...very revealing.more
Obama Will Win Health Care Political Theater: Then What?

By Randy Shaw
It’s a safe bet that President Obama will run intellectual circles around Congressional Republicans at today’s televised health care forum, as nobody does political theater better than Barack Obama. From his acclaimed speech on race

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“My best guess is that they want me dead as soon as possible….They know that the premiums I pay will never cover how much they’ll spend on me.”

Those were the words of Bob Iritano in a conversation with Los Angeles Times business columnist David Lazarus. Iritano has terminal cancer, and Lazarus went on to write about how Iritano’s health insurer, Health Net, decided not to cover the treatment that could extend his life.

Meg's California

By Robert Cruickshank
Meg Whitman is a master of slick campaigning. Her feel good radio and TV ads are designed to make her seem like a moderate, pragmatic person who will help cure what ails California. Just today she launched her second TV ad, one in which the word "Republican" is never mentioned.
When it comes to the #1 task our next governor will face - solving the budget crisis - she is offering a continuation of Arnold Schwarzenegger's slash-and-burn cuts. But you wouldn't know that from Whitman's ads. She doesn't make reference to her refusal to embrace new revenues to save popular and

Gino · 02-26-2010, 09:55 AM

Its a left wing thing...

Not to make a political push, but when you vote for liberals (Arnold included) This is a by product of what you get MLPA!

They will always know what is best for you! and your family! and the Enviorment! OMG!

And if you dont agree with them your not "progressive" or a neanderthal.

Look at that Ladies page there The Noble Sir Whiz Bang and Squire Stairman posted... It Reaks of Left Wing ideology. She votes and supports the gang that wants to take away your fishing rights.

We got to find or create a gang that will protect ours.

dos ballenas · 02-26-2010, 10:15 AM

I know a lot of leftys against the mlpa process... there is a difference between them and the "green extremists"

Its sad that more often than not science is given a bad name and dragged into the fight due to these extremists tactics.

Most scientists I know are on the fishermens side, both commercially and recreationally. They laugh at the "greenies" and how easy it is for them to sway the vote by manipulating the results of scientific research to show their extreme view points.

Its true, some of the science is probably bad and may be biased, but regardless, its all about how its presented. And the greenies are very good at making their arguement.

j mo · 02-26-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

And the greenies are very good at making their arguement.

soo frustratingly true.

Billy V · 02-26-2010, 11:21 AM

The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians.

I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

Gino · 02-26-2010, 12:30 PM

It doesnt matter if the Science is valid or not, The result becomes the same. Those people politcally still support and Vote for the public policies and the elected officials who support them. They have some sorta trust in goverment witch is nonsence.

The ones that speak up about it, basically try to whipe clean there acountability, Its playing both sides. The next Enviormental initiative that sounds clean they will jump right on the band wagon.

this is a CA goverment process, and nothing they are employed to do ever turns out the way it sounds on a Ballot. Half the Time whats on the ballot isnt really whats on the bill. what makes this any differant?

It just like "heal the bay" crying about Special intrest on there facebook page AFTER the maps have been drawn up, and they are starting to choose and gear up for the Next Region. They didnt say anything during the other public comments about it? Those extremist will use anything at there desposal to further there agenda, Look at the Founding fathers of there movement...Al Gore?...Jerry Brown?... Green Peace? etc etc! Then the truth comes out, hacked E-mails, embelished reaserch, Fake results.

And we know what side the Media is on.

dos ballenas · 02-26-2010, 01:02 PM

The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people in this world, and many have different opinions.

Regardless, none of this matters... the only thing that matters is where you will be March 3rd and how thoughtfully you will choose to express your views.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=6721
C U THERE

FARRIER · 02-26-2010, 11:34 PM

Jut my two cents from a pea brain. But there is absolutely zero scientific or empirical data to support either side of this debate. There is no control group and there is no study group. There is no repeat of experiment. And there is no re -evaluation of data. No two areas or situations are congruent in the ocean as tides, fish, and bait are all somewhat migratory by nature so to speak. I have the feeling that the decision is going to be made behind closed doors regardless of which side is right or wrong. Its the democratic way. Money talks and common sense walks.

peguinpower · 02-27-2010, 04:17 AM

In studies of marine protected areas, social and environmental scientists found that...

"Social scientists have said that it's local people banding together with their community leaders who ultimately determine the success or failure of tropical marine conservation areas in many parts of the world.

"When people sacrifice to conserve, they want to benefit from that sacrifice", said Patrick Christie, University of Washington associate professor of marine affairs and a Pew fellow in marine conservation. "People expect direct economic and social benefits from conservation," he added."

Conflicts develop, however, when outsiders move in to implement closures."

Gestapo like closures will not work. Exclusion, outdoor activity segregation, and prejudice towards differing objectives is DISCRIMINATION!

California is bankrupt! In New Zealand....

"One of the most common causes for failure of marine protected areas is a lack of resources to implement protection."

THERE IS NO CONSENSUS ABOUT MARINE RESERVE EFFECTIVENESS!

"William Precht, a coral reef geologist and restoration specialist for the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, added, "Data from throughout the Caribbean and western Atlantic indicate that no form of local stewardship or management could have protected coral populations from their major sources of mortality (environmental factors) or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss observed during the past few decades."

"A ..... study (Jones et al. 2004) published in PNAS documented the failure of marine reserves in Papua New Guinea to mitigate the effects of the 1998 El Nino and other more local disturbances. The eight year study found that coral cover declined from 65% to 10% both inside reserves and on neighboring fished sites."

Environmental factors, specifically pollutants (ergo urban run off) hurt the fishery more than nature loving self regulating sportfishermen.

/bing

WahooUSMA · 02-27-2010, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy V

The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians.

I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

Ya know part of me is envious of he vegan carpet muncher's, because they get more skirt than I do!

Faq'em

Matt · 02-27-2010, 05:47 AM

Ummmmmmm yaaaa!! SO the era of poaching begins.............every once in awhile my friends ya need to stand up to Political Tyranny if you haven't joined the fight against the MLPA......may I ask why not??

Piney · 03-02-2010, 09:50 AM

I grew up 15 miles north of La Jolla, had my first ocean fishing experiences in the kelp there and my first skindiving experiences at the Cove and Blacks when I was a kid (in the 60's). I now live 400 miles away, but have been following the whole MLPA deal as closely as possible, as I still consider coastal North San Diego county my backyard. I have been sending in comments to the groups that will accept them. My main beef with the whole thing is permanent, forever closure of areas to recreational fishing. Why does it have to be so black and white? This deal is gonna be basically unenforceable anyway with the lack of DFG wardens and state budget, so why is there no talk of ideas like a 10 year closure for certain species, or a catch and release section, or "self-propelled vessels only fishing", or if a section needs a rest, look at it again in a few years sorta thing. Man, they do this kind of stuff all the time in Alaska and up north with the salmon/steelhead fisheries, and it seems to work. If there is indeed "sound science", it should be put to work, instead of putting heads in the sand. Paul, are you out there? Sorry, could not make any meetings, but I'm backing you all in spirit, and by e-mail comments. That's my two bits worth and I'm stickin' to it....

02-26-2010, 08:07 AM	#6
Whizz Bang Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 396	Save you the time Dan It is very convenient that this study came out when it did. Coincidence? Not likely. The granola lady and some friends just created a new model that will interpet the data in the manner they want. From what I read, they created this little computer model and fed it the same old sparse empirical data they had on hand and then pronounced that it shows MLPAs are good for everyone. Because it is an ocean with currents, and because fish have fins and swim around, they have a hard time counting them....it is far easier to just create a computer model that interpets old data and skews it the proper way. Not science so much as it is BS. Anytime I see a "scientific report" by any group that has the words conservancy or protection attached to it, I get out my waders.

02-26-2010, 09:10 AM	#7
stairman Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 84	here are a few of the stories that are on that web site ...very revealing.more Obama Will Win Health Care Political Theater: Then What? By Randy Shaw It’s a safe bet that President Obama will run intellectual circles around Congressional Republicans at today’s televised health care forum, as nobody does political theater better than Barack Obama. From his acclaimed speech on race Navigation Donate Syndicate Search Search this site: Ads Blogroll Progress Report Friends: Bayne of Blogs Beyond Chron California Budget Bites Health Access Blog California Majority Report Calitics Privacy Revolt CALPIRG Blog CLCV Blog Courage Campaign D Day Protect Consumer Justice Speak Out California Center for Policy Analysis News, Opinion, Gossip Around the Capitol Calbuzz Capitol Alert Capitol Notes Capitol Weekly LA Observed Political Blotter Rough & Tumble Voices of San Diego Opposing Views Flash Report Fox & Hounds Daily Does Your Insurance Company Want You To Die? J.G. Preston Protect Consumer Justice “My best guess is that they want me dead as soon as possible….They know that the premiums I pay will never cover how much they’ll spend on me.” Those were the words of Bob Iritano in a conversation with Los Angeles Times business columnist David Lazarus. Iritano has terminal cancer, and Lazarus went on to write about how Iritano’s health insurer, Health Net, decided not to cover the treatment that could extend his life. Meg's California By Robert Cruickshank Meg Whitman is a master of slick campaigning. Her feel good radio and TV ads are designed to make her seem like a moderate, pragmatic person who will help cure what ails California. Just today she launched her second TV ad, one in which the word "Republican" is never mentioned. When it comes to the #1 task our next governor will face - solving the budget crisis - she is offering a continuation of Arnold Schwarzenegger's slash-and-burn cuts. But you wouldn't know that from Whitman's ads. She doesn't make reference to her refusal to embrace new revenues to save popular and

02-26-2010, 10:15 AM	#9
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	I know a lot of leftys against the mlpa process... there is a difference between them and the "green extremists" Its sad that more often than not science is given a bad name and dragged into the fight due to these extremists tactics. Most scientists I know are on the fishermens side, both commercially and recreationally. They laugh at the "greenies" and how easy it is for them to sway the vote by manipulating the results of scientific research to show their extreme view points. Its true, some of the science is probably bad and may be biased, but regardless, its all about how its presented. And the greenies are very good at making their arguement. __________________ ____________________________________________

02-26-2010, 01:02 PM	#13
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people in this world, and many have different opinions. Regardless, none of this matters... the only thing that matters is where you will be March 3rd and how thoughtfully you will choose to express your views. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=6721 C U THERE __________________ ____________________________________________ Last edited by dos ballenas; 02-26-2010 at 01:22 PM.

02-27-2010, 05:47 AM	#17
Matt Support your local pangas Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lj Posts: 976	Ummmmmmm yaaaa!! SO the era of poaching begins.............every once in awhile my friends ya need to stand up to Political Tyranny if you haven't joined the fight against the MLPA......may I ask why not?? __________________ Thanks Matt F.

02-25-2010, 07:48 PM	#1
teto116 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: compton hills Posts: 38	New Scientific Studies Make the Case for the Marine Life Protection Act some info i came across about the mlpa http://www.californiaprogressreport....e/?q=node/7488

02-25-2010, 09:51 PM	#3
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	The most important paragraph in that piece is this one. "This new research shows that California is on the right track with ocean policy. It adds to a large body of scientific evidence that proves that marine reserves, when designed using sound science, can benefit both fish and fishermen." If the recommendations submitted by the BRTF were based on "sound science" I would not have a problem with all of this. Unfortunately, at least in my view, "sound science" took a back seat to special interest agendas and political gamesmanship. Bob

02-26-2010, 09:55 AM	#8
Gino Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 520	Its a left wing thing... Not to make a political push, but when you vote for liberals (Arnold included) This is a by product of what you get MLPA! They will always know what is best for you! and your family! and the Enviorment! OMG! And if you dont agree with them your not "progressive" or a neanderthal. Look at that Ladies page there The Noble Sir Whiz Bang and Squire Stairman posted... It Reaks of Left Wing ideology. She votes and supports the gang that wants to take away your fishing rights. We got to find or create a gang that will protect ours.

02-26-2010, 11:21 AM	#11
Billy V Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Ho Posts: 1,382	The world is being taken over by vegan lesbians. I hope they keep a couple of us males around for sex slaves.

02-26-2010, 12:30 PM	#12
Gino Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 520	It doesnt matter if the Science is valid or not, The result becomes the same. Those people politcally still support and Vote for the public policies and the elected officials who support them. They have some sorta trust in goverment witch is nonsence. The ones that speak up about it, basically try to whipe clean there acountability, Its playing both sides. The next Enviormental initiative that sounds clean they will jump right on the band wagon. this is a CA goverment process, and nothing they are employed to do ever turns out the way it sounds on a Ballot. Half the Time whats on the ballot isnt really whats on the bill. what makes this any differant? It just like "heal the bay" crying about Special intrest on there facebook page AFTER the maps have been drawn up, and they are starting to choose and gear up for the Next Region. They didnt say anything during the other public comments about it? Those extremist will use anything at there desposal to further there agenda, Look at the Founding fathers of there movement...Al Gore?...Jerry Brown?... Green Peace? etc etc! Then the truth comes out, hacked E-mails, embelished reaserch, Fake results. And we know what side the Media is on.

02-26-2010, 11:34 PM	#14
FARRIER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Cmont [] Posts: 314	Jut my two cents from a pea brain. But there is absolutely zero scientific or empirical data to support either side of this debate. There is no control group and there is no study group. There is no repeat of experiment. And there is no re -evaluation of data. No two areas or situations are congruent in the ocean as tides, fish, and bait are all somewhat migratory by nature so to speak. I have the feeling that the decision is going to be made behind closed doors regardless of which side is right or wrong. Its the democratic way. Money talks and common sense walks.

02-27-2010, 04:17 AM	#15
peguinpower bing! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: socal Posts: 246	In studies of marine protected areas, social and environmental scientists found that... "Social scientists have said that it's local people banding together with their community leaders who ultimately determine the success or failure of tropical marine conservation areas in many parts of the world. "When people sacrifice to conserve, they want to benefit from that sacrifice", said Patrick Christie, University of Washington associate professor of marine affairs and a Pew fellow in marine conservation. "People expect direct economic and social benefits from conservation," he added." Conflicts develop, however, when outsiders move in to implement closures." Gestapo like closures will not work. Exclusion, outdoor activity segregation, and prejudice towards differing objectives is DISCRIMINATION! California is bankrupt! In New Zealand.... "One of the most common causes for failure of marine protected areas is a lack of resources to implement protection." THERE IS NO CONSENSUS ABOUT MARINE RESERVE EFFECTIVENESS! "William Precht, a coral reef geologist and restoration specialist for the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, added, "Data from throughout the Caribbean and western Atlantic indicate that no form of local stewardship or management could have protected coral populations from their major sources of mortality (environmental factors) or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss observed during the past few decades." "A ..... study (Jones et al. 2004) published in PNAS documented the failure of marine reserves in Papua New Guinea to mitigate the effects of the 1998 El Nino and other more local disturbances. The eight year study found that coral cover declined from 65% to 10% both inside reserves and on neighboring fished sites." Environmental factors, specifically pollutants (ergo urban run off) hurt the fishery more than nature loving self regulating sportfishermen. /bing

03-02-2010, 09:50 AM	#18
Piney Junior Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3	I grew up 15 miles north of La Jolla, had my first ocean fishing experiences in the kelp there and my first skindiving experiences at the Cove and Blacks when I was a kid (in the 60's). I now live 400 miles away, but have been following the whole MLPA deal as closely as possible, as I still consider coastal North San Diego county my backyard. I have been sending in comments to the groups that will accept them. My main beef with the whole thing is permanent, forever closure of areas to recreational fishing. Why does it have to be so black and white? This deal is gonna be basically unenforceable anyway with the lack of DFG wardens and state budget, so why is there no talk of ideas like a 10 year closure for certain species, or a catch and release section, or "self-propelled vessels only fishing", or if a section needs a rest, look at it again in a few years sorta thing. Man, they do this kind of stuff all the time in Alaska and up north with the salmon/steelhead fisheries, and it seems to work. If there is indeed "sound science", it should be put to work, instead of putting heads in the sand. Paul, are you out there? Sorry, could not make any meetings, but I'm backing you all in spirit, and by e-mail comments. That's my two bits worth and I'm stickin' to it....