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Old 08-14-2017, 09:55 AM   #1
crashcrow
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LJ Reds and almost Ling 8/12

Lots of people out on Saturday, I stayed away from the crowd until I got limits of rockfish and almost had my first lingcod but he shook the hook at the surface. I brought a friend out in my spare kayak, poor guy was sick and puking the whole time so he headed in early and hung out on the beach. Then headed towards the NW corner with a 6" mac on the flyline... I still haven't gotten a bite on my flylined mac... There were a ton of boats and kayaks out but still cant figure out if its just my setup or luck. I'm using 65lb braid with a 50lb flouro topshot, #4hook and 2oz sliding egg sinker to get him down a bit... am I missing something? Maybe I just need to put more time in as that's where I figure out something new everyday. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:35 AM   #2
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50# fluoro may be overkill.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:37 AM   #3
crashcrow
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50# fluoro may be overkill.
I was thinking the same thing... maybe 30?
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:58 AM   #4
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I was thinking the same thing... maybe 30?
Eh, in my very uneducated opinion, I think a lot of saltwater guys are way over rigged for the size fish they are after.

I'm consistently rigged with either 10lbs Flouro on my bass sticks, or 25lbs flouro on my "yellow/game fish" sticks. Any heavy stuff like vertical jig or drop loop rigs, its 30lbs MAX, and sometimes I even under rig with just 25lbs mono.

Know your terminal knot and drag setting are far and beyond more important to landing a large fish than your line. It may take you a little longer to land that 35lbs yellow on 25lbs flouro, but he bit the 25lbs line in the first place....
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:00 AM   #5
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I was thinking the same thing... maybe 30?
Still slowly figuring things out myself caught a big wsb Friday with 25lb there's a picture I posted in a report don't know the weight people on the beach said 40-50 and 30-40
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:10 AM   #6
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Thanks guys for the info! @ Carnevale nice WSB! Congratulations! I'm going to rig lighter and see what happens.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #7
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Equipment

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Originally Posted by goldenglory18 View Post
Eh, in my very uneducated opinion, I think a lot of saltwater guys are way over rigged for the size fish they are after.

I'm consistently rigged with either 10lbs Flouro on my bass sticks, or 25lbs flouro on my "yellow/game fish" sticks. Any heavy stuff like vertical jig or drop loop rigs, its 30lbs MAX, and sometimes I even under rig with just 25lbs mono.

Know your terminal knot and drag setting are far and beyond more important to landing a large fish than your line. It may take you a little longer to land that 35lbs yellow on 25lbs flouro, but he bit the 25lbs line in the first place....
What would be lowest size equipment you need for rock to YT .
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:14 AM   #8
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What would be lowest size equipment you need for rock to YT .
I use a completely different setup for bottom fishing. Shimano Trevala with Baitrunner 8000, 40 lb braid to 20 lb flouro. Had lots of luck with a small jig with cut bait on the hook.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:02 PM   #9
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What would be lowest size equipment you need for rock to YT .
Eh, I'd use different gear for yellows. It's really all in how you fish for them though.

Example: I'm going to flyline for them 50% of the time. I can use a 8' XH swimbait bass stick for that. A 300 sized reel with a clicker and you're set. Or, the other 50% of the time, throw a standard surface jig or subsurface blade that I'm going to work like a rip bait (coltsniper or squish jig) and for that I 'm comfortable using a 8' MH offshore stick.

For Rocks/Bottom fishing, I'm going to almost always use a shorter, more stout H or XH stick. That way it can more comfortably handle the weight it takes to get the bait to lower depths (plus that's almost always vertical fishing, IMO the longer rod the more cumbersome that technique gets.)

The only crossover I can see is if you are rock fishing in shallower waters, and don't need to throw 12oz of weight, you could very easily do that with the same rig you throw your subsurface jigs with.

Also, I think a lot more of my terminal and line when it comes to techniques. I just make sure my rod and reel can support my line needs...

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Old 08-14-2017, 04:35 PM   #10
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I think these fish are onto braid. I use spectra with 100 yards top shot of 40lb mono and then 35lb flouro leader. Don't use any weight just fly line the mackerel with a circle hook. Better yet put one fly line on one side and one weighted down with 3-4 oz sinker. That way you cover both water columns but you will find out most of the bites will be on the fly line
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:53 AM   #11
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In the summertime, it's not that complicated. Hard to say what you need to change with such limited info but here are some ideas:

1. Ditch the weight. Flyline means line and a hook with a bait at the end. No weights.

2. Catch plenty of greenbacks (25 of them is a good number for a day in La Jolla) and keep them happy/healthy. Don't throw them in a home depot bucket full of water, don't squeeze the shit out of them, and don't drag around the same half dead mac for hours. Drop directly from the sabiki into the bait tank. Throw back the bleeders. Lively greenbacks are key.

3. Drop to 30 lb flouro.

4. #4 hook is small. Try a ringed 1/0 hook.

5. Fish the right areas. If you aren't keyed in, then cover ground. If you're sitting at the edge of the MPA in one spot all day or in the same spot in the middle of the canyon all day, you're not giving yourself a good shot. Try trolling that greenback about 100 feet behind you from the front of La Valencia around south to marine street, for example, in 60 feet of water. When you reach the end of the road, turn around and troll back to La Valencia in 70 feet of water. Then back to marine in 80, and so on until you're fishing in 120 or deeper. Do that for 8-10 hours a few weekends in a row and see if you don't get bit.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:00 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=The pelican;284427]In the summertime, it's not that complicated. Hard to say what you need to change with such limited info but here are some ideas:

1. Ditch the weight. Flyline means line and a hook with a bait at the end. No weights.

2. Catch plenty of greenbacks (25 of them is a good number for a day in La Jolla) and keep them happy/healthy. Don't throw them in a home depot bucket full of water, don't squeeze the shit out of them, and don't drag around the same half dead mac for hours. Drop directly from the sabiki into the bait tank. Throw back the bleeders. Lively greenbacks are key.

3. Drop to 30 lb flouro.

4. #4 hook is small. Try a ringed 1/0 hook.

5. Fish the right areas. If you aren't keyed in, then cover ground. If you're sitting at the edge of the MPA in one spot all day or in the same spot in the middle of the canyon all day, you're not giving yourself a good shot. Try trolling that greenback about 100 feet behind you from the front of La Valencia around south to marine street, for example, in 60 feet of water. When you reach the end of the road, turn around and troll back to La Valencia in 70 feet of water. Then back to marine in 80, and so on until you're fishing in 120 or deeper. Do that for 8-10 hours a few weekends in a row and see if you

25 green backs in a kayak bait tank?
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:03 PM   #13
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30# is the sweet spot for me. I'll put out a 25# if the fish are being finicky. No Weight flyline
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:09 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=ultimatejay;284468]
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Originally Posted by The pelican View Post
In the summertime, it's not that complicated. Hard to say what you need to change with such limited info but here are some ideas:

1. Ditch the weight. Flyline means line and a hook with a bait at the end. No weights.

2. Catch plenty of greenbacks (25 of them is a good number for a day in La Jolla) and keep them happy/healthy. Don't throw them in a home depot bucket full of water, don't squeeze the shit out of them, and don't drag around the same half dead mac for hours. Drop directly from the sabiki into the bait tank. Throw back the bleeders. Lively greenbacks are key.

3. Drop to 30 lb flouro.

4. #4 hook is small. Try a ringed 1/0 hook.

5. Fish the right areas. If you aren't keyed in, then cover ground. If you're sitting at the edge of the MPA in one spot all day or in the same spot in the middle of the canyon all day, you're not giving yourself a good shot. Try trolling that greenback about 100 feet behind you from the front of La Valencia around south to marine street, for example, in 60 feet of water. When you reach the end of the road, turn around and troll back to La Valencia in 70 feet of water. Then back to marine in 80, and so on until you're fishing in 120 or deeper. Do that for 8-10 hours a few weekends in a row and see if you

25 green backs in a kayak bait tank?
UltimateJay - Yes! Having plenty of lively baits is key. You'll read reports on this site of guys who will go out, catch 6 macs, and start fishing for the day. In my experience, that doesn't make much sense. Of course there are times when it's hard to find them. But catch as many as you can keep alive and healthy for the entire day, before you start fishing, if they are around. Then put away the sabiki for the day and forget about multitasking. Catch bait for the day, then catch yellowtail without interruption.

Obviously the number of baits depends on the size of the macs and the livewell you're using. My Hobie tank can hold quite a few. If you're catching smaller greenies, the tank's pumping lots of water, bleeders are thrown back, and you're handling them with care (consider using a sabiki de-hooker so you don't need to touch them); they will stay lively all day long.

Regularly check to sure the water is really pumping into the tank. Keep a section of plastic tubing on the kayak to press against the water intake, take a deep breath, and blow against the pump as hard as you can to clear any grass that might be sucked up against the intake under the kayak. Get used to how the pump sounds when it's working properly and stay aware of any changes to the noise it makes (which may indicate a blockage). That can really limit the amount of water that's making it's way into the tank and suffocate your baits.

Also, use a small bait net to quickly scoop up a mac when you need a fresh one. Don't chase them all over the tank with your hand. If you're using your hand, you'll spend more time in the tank scaring them. You'll squeeze the hell out of a bunch that will slip away. And you'll almost certainly catch the slowest baits if you're using your hand. The best pieces will be left in the tank at the end of the day.

Look at the color of their backs. For some reason, the weaker baits (maybe those that were injured) are a darker color. The better baits in the tank have a lighter colored back. You'll really notice the difference if you're short on baits and reel one and put it back in the tank to get away from a dog, for example. The mac that was used already will stand out against the others due to it's darker color.

Hopefully this helps.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:10 AM   #15
crashcrow
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You guys are awesome. Thanks for sharing. I cant wait to get back out there in a couple days and try some new tricks.
Mike
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:29 AM   #16
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You guys are awesome. Thanks for sharing. I cant wait to get back out there in a couple days and try some new tricks.
Mike
Sure thing. Also, the yellowtail in La Jolla are not "onto braid". If you're fishing near kelp, you'll want to use a flouro leader but skip the mono topshot. Yellowtail aren't going to pass up your bait because they see your powerpro 5 feet above your bait. But they will be lost if you're trying to cut kelp with that mono top shot.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:06 PM   #17
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Sure thing. Also, the yellowtail in La Jolla are not "onto braid". If you're fishing near kelp, you'll want to use a flouro leader but skip the mono topshot. Yellowtail aren't going to pass up your bait because they see your powerpro 5 feet above your bait. But they will be lost if you're trying to cut kelp with that mono top shot.
My friend and I went to La Jolla last month when everyone said it was slow. My 10 year old son and I caught 4 yellowtail that day and my friend who was fishing right next to me didn't catch anything. Only difference was I was using mono top shot with flouro leader and he was using braid with flouro leader. You be the judge 😉
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:18 AM   #18
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My friend and I went to La Jolla last month when everyone said it was slow. My 10 year old son and I caught 4 yellowtail that day and my friend who was fishing right next to me didn't catch anything. Only difference was I was using mono top shot with flouro leader and he was using braid with flouro leader. You be the judge 😉
It sounds like you're mistaken but I'd recommend doing whatever you think works best for you and gives you the most confidence on the water. A 4 yellowtail day is a great day at La Jolla but there are many people on this forum who've had many days like that or better. It can take a long time to draw conclusions about what works and what doesn't. Be careful about reading too much into one day on the water.

I fish braid to flouro near kelp and have caught plenty of yellowtail and not found them to be turned off by the braided line that consistently allows me to cut fish out of the kelp. Braided line also lets me feel the bait much better. I can sense when it's nervous and know a few seconds before I get bit (more often than not). Those are two big advantages when it comes to hooking and landing these fish.

In the wintertime mono works great in open water when dropping irons, for example. You can pull way harder, don't need to cut kelp, and don't need to feel a bait swimming.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but there are a lot of factors that could account for the reason you caught fish and your buddy didn't on one day. The first thing that comes to mind is luck. What are the chances that a coin toss comes up either heads 4 times in a row or tails 4 times in a row? It's 1 in 8 that you or your friend would have caught all 4 of the fish on that day. Your sample size is so small that even if you're right about the exact same presentation, it's not smart to come to any conclusion.

It's also possible that you think your presentation was the same as your friend's but it wasn't. The really successful guys on the water do many small things that might not be noticeable to most of us. Those small things add up to a big advantage.

A friend and I fished a kelp about 10 miles off LJ on my boat a couple weeks ago. We used the exact same set-up and bait. I caught 3 dorado and he caught none. I only tell this story to (a) brag on a kayak site that I have a boat, (b) rub it in your face that there are quality dorado just outside of kayak range, (c) find an excuse to tell you about fish I've caught and (d) to immediately contradict my coin toss example and tell everyone on the site that I have more skill than my friend who used the EXACT SAME SETUP and caught nothing.

It sounds like you had a great day at La Jolla and maybe you're reading into it a bit much. Just trying to be helpful and steer the OP away from what I consider misguided advice. If the guy finally puts the pieces together and gets slammed by that yellowtail he's been targeting, but loses it in the kelp, he's going to be rightfully bummed.

I won't beat a dead horse any longer.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:47 AM   #19
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I've been fishing this area since 2012 out of a kayak off and on. This year I was able to switch to a Hobie, the pedals are amazing I will never go back. Being able to cover twice as much ground in a day has the old yak, Ive definitely gotten better, marked more spots, and learned a lot. I can't wait to try this advise and hopefully land some big fish. I work in the motorcycle industry doing R&D and this is no different, you have to get out there and try things, figure out what works and what doesn't and keep plugging away until you figure it out. This forum has taught me so much about fishing and kayak setup. I appreciate all of your advise and I hope to post a report soon with my big fish. I'm also developing a large fish hold that should drop into the front of an outback, if it works out I will have them produced and you guys will be the first to know. That's my next hoop to jump through, what to do with the fish to keep it fresh instead of paddling in once you have one on the deck.
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:37 PM   #20
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It sounds like you're mistaken but I'd recommend doing whatever you think works best for you and gives you the most confidence on the water. A 4 yellowtail day is a great day at La Jolla but there are many people on this forum who've had many days like that or better. It can take a long time to draw conclusions about what works and what doesn't. Be careful about reading too much into one day on the water.

I fish braid to flouro near kelp and have caught plenty of yellowtail and not found them to be turned off by the braided line that consistently allows me to cut fish out of the kelp. Braided line also lets me feel the bait much better. I can sense when it's nervous and know a few seconds before I get bit (more often than not). Those are two big advantages when it comes to hooking and landing these fish.

In the wintertime mono works great in open water when dropping irons, for example. You can pull way harder, don't need to cut kelp, and don't need to feel a bait swimming.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but there are a lot of factors that could account for the reason you caught fish and your buddy didn't on one day. The first thing that comes to mind is luck. What are the chances that a coin toss comes up either heads 4 times in a row or tails 4 times in a row? It's 1 in 8 that you or your friend would have caught all 4 of the fish on that day. Your sample size is so small that even if you're right about the exact same presentation, it's not smart to come to any conclusion.

It's also possible that you think your presentation was the same as your friend's but it wasn't. The really successful guys on the water do many small things that might not be noticeable to most of us. Those small things add up to a big advantage.

A friend and I fished a kelp about 10 miles off LJ on my boat a couple weeks ago. We used the exact same set-up and bait. I caught 3 dorado and he caught none. I only tell this story to (a) brag on a kayak site that I have a boat, (b) rub it in your face that there are quality dorado just outside of kayak range, (c) find an excuse to tell you about fish I've caught and (d) to immediately contradict my coin toss example and tell everyone on the site that I have more skill than my friend who used the EXACT SAME SETUP and caught nothing.

It sounds like you had a great day at La Jolla and maybe you're reading into it a bit much. Just trying to be helpful and steer the OP away from what I consider misguided advice. If the guy finally puts the pieces together and gets slammed by that yellowtail he's been targeting, but loses it in the kelp, he's going to be rightfully bummed.

I won't beat a dead horse any longer.
I'm just giving my experience, I have seen fish that wouldn't bite 25-30lb line but if you went down to 15-20lb you would get bite after bite. Fish have great eye seight. Also, feeling your bait get excited is not going to change the outcome. Either you get bit or you dont how is that going to help you get hooked up? lol The only one advantage you have is with the kelp and that's it.
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