Live from the BRTF meeting - Page 2 - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

dsafety · 11-10-2009, 04:37 PM

Good News!!!

They are talking about not changing the shape of the existing LJ reserve. That means that we could catch bait at the pier and fish for anything north of the pier except for a very small area just north of the pier as requested by Scripps.

The BRTF member who lines up against us most of the time will not change her motion to allow this but others in the group seem to be supportive.

Stay tuned.

Bob

dsafety · 11-10-2009, 04:47 PM

It's done. We have option 2. South LJ and Swami's are closed. We get a larger N. LJ area but also a larger La Jolla reserve, including all the areas north of the pier.

This was very interesting to watch. It was obvious to me that the BRTF just wanted to get a result. In their own words, "this is not perfect"

No Shit! The DFG cannot and will not enforce these new regulations. ADA issues may tie this up in court for years.

Watching this process has reinforced my opinion that our Government is broken. Special interests always win.

I suspect that we have not heard the end of this one yet however.

Bob

Willy · 11-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Well said Bob.
We appricate the updates. I caught the end of the live cast on video and like you agree, the government is broken.
Their attitudes at the end really did reflect they just wanted to get some result; science, fairness, and every other bit of hyperbole they used be damned.
I'm ashamed our system has fallen into the hands of special interests, but money talks and bullsh!t gets a promotion.
Hopefully the DFG will tell these folks to shove it.

Sorry for the candor, but this process has me fully flustered.
Well done to those who could make it today, and to those who put so much forth for us all.
Willy

dos ballenas · 11-10-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsafety

It's done. We have option 2. South LJ and Swami's are closed. We get a larger N. LJ area but also a larger La Jolla reserve, including all the areas north of the pier.

This was very interesting to watch. It was obvious to me that the BRTF just wanted to get a result. In their own words, "this is not perfect"

No Shit! The DFG cannot and will not enforce these new regulations. ADA issues may tie this up in court for years.

Watching this process has reinforced my opinion that our Government is broken. Special interests always win.

I suspect that we have not heard the end of this one yet however.

Bob

please specify... do you mean that fishing is closed north of the pier? Or open?

forefrazier · 11-10-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

please specify... do you mean that fishing is closed north of the pier? Or open? Can we fish Blacks?

NO...Just keep on fishing until someone comes up to you in a DFG boat and tells you to leave. Not going to happen anyway.

dsafety · 11-10-2009, 05:19 PM

The shape that was put forward in the latest option 2 was approved. We will be allowed to catch bait at the pier with a hook but the area north of the pier will now be a SMCA, (State Marine Conservation Area). This means that the take from this area will be limited.

I am not sure what the limitations are but given the way this thing has gone, I suspect that is is fairly close to a no-take zone.

It is hard to tell from the map. http://resources.ca.gov/mlpa_scrsg/B...ons_091030.pdf

It looks like the SMCA north of the pier does not include all of Blacks.

I am sure Paul can provide more details.

Bob

dos ballenas · 11-10-2009, 05:26 PM

A big thank you to everyone who could make it today! Sorry I could not be there. Heres to hoping that the final details go smooothly and we can all enjoy fishing parts of La Jolla for the rest of our lives!

As taken from http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/defs.asp#smca

State Marine Conservation Area [36700(c) PRC]

A "state marine conservation area," is a non-terrestrial marine or estuarine area that is designated so the managing agency may achieve one or more of the following:

protect or restore rare, threatened or endangered native plants, animals or habitats in marine areas;
protect or restore outstanding, representative or imperiled marine species, communities, habitats and ecosystems;
protect or restore diverse marine gene pools;
contribute to the understanding and management of marine resources and ecosystems by providing the opportunity for scientific research in outstanding, representative or imperiled marine habitats or ecosystems;
preserve outstanding or unique geological features; or
provide for sustainable living marine resource harvest.

I like # 6... maybe they will allow pelagics...

but its still sad about Swamis... I will always remember you:

Iceman · 11-10-2009, 06:09 PM

BIG Thanks to Kiyo and Baytubers for making sure we got fed today! That was alot of pizza!

Tman · 11-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Great job feeding the troops Kiyo and the Baytubers crew...

Now had I known I would've been fed...$hit, Andy showed up again?
I most certainly would've showed up just to see the Master...

robmandel · 11-10-2009, 06:55 PM

bittersweet day. got to see lots of new friends again but under rather shitty conditions. such an awesome bond among us kayak fishermen. really awesome. there are not better people in the world.

got there early, had to leave sometime after the break. had to get the kids from school and what not. really a shitty thing they did, with the public comment and all. did they ever get there???

guys, stand proud. we fought like hell. you have to understand. this process was a sham and the out determined right from the outset. it didn't matter what we did. we did everything we could, and Paul and our reps and guys who organized and got info and all that, went so far beyond the call. of course we had everything on our side: data, science, economics, and basic fairness and common sense. it didn't matter.

the whole "public" part of this was the cover. they knew what they watned to do, and what they had to do to get it done. textbook tactics. you want A, B, and C so you ask for A, B, C, D, and E. so, you "give up" D and E which to them was the part of PV. they can say they heard the public, they listened, all that shit, made necessary swaps and trades and cuts, and all that. and in the end, get exactly what they wanted in the first place.

we played on their turf, by their rules, with their referees. but we fought like hell. we didn't lay there and play dead. they perhaps didn't figure on that one.

I knew it from the start, but it was never more evident when after the break marvelous meg up and decides that only Malibu option 1 will be discussed (my home turf). 3 met all the science, had the best kelp, a compromise on the canyon, best public access, and least commercaial and recreational loss. so she chooses the worst option. of course they saved rocky point (PV), taking that would have killed redondo and the city council made that one clear.

this isn't the end. it's the beginning. they'll come back to close more. but for us, the fight must continue. legally, politically, etc. the DFG already said they can't (and my guess is honestly, won't, as the politics and PR would be a nightmare) enforce it.

again, we put up a helluva fight and have every reason to be proud. know that there wasn't anything, or anything more, we could have done to alter the outcome. it was an honor to be able to stand tall alongside all ofyou that were there, at c-bad, at LAX, at LB, and LAX again.

in the future, we need to do a MLPA protest event: we get as many of us as possible and do a major launch at each of the closed areas. just get a few hundred of us out there, all lined up, on the water, and make our presence known. waht a sight it would be !!!

especially after the closures.

again, you guys are awesome, amazing, and truly the best. this isn't a failure, it's a victory. it might not seem like it, but we fought and they didn't kill us. they've made us stronger.

see y'all on the water.

Tman · 11-10-2009, 06:58 PM

bender0240 · 11-10-2009, 07:13 PM

I'd like to personally wish the people of the MLPA the BEST of luck securing the $70million a year plus the cost of installing and maintaining the new boundary buoys, signage and documentation, a plethora of unforeseen costs and especially enforcement. *sarcasm*(i wish there was a sarcasm smiley) It should be cake to set aside $70mil a year in the most bankrupt state in the US. *sarcasm* Hey it was so easy for them to get to this point. It only took, how long since the bill passed? Ten years? They should have this thing up and running by AT LEAST 2020.

No but seriously, good luck.*sarcasm* And to all you wanna-be enviro, greenpeace, save-the-cutest-animals, grass-smoking, tree-molesting, crystal-grippin', lazy, cheating, smarmy, two-faced, hypocritical pieces of shit: I find a lot of pleasure in the fact that you think this is a victory for us fisherman. I hope it causes you a great deal of pain. If I can find any way to add to that pain I certainly will.

Iceman · 11-10-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

had to leave sometime after the break. had to get the kids from school and what not. really a shitty thing they did, with the public comment and all. did they ever get there???

Rob, I was in the same boat and had to cut out. Frustrating how slow the day moved. For those that endured all the way up until public comment around 4 pm after being there for 7+ hours, my thanks to you! I watched most of the remainder on line.

Sunburn · 11-10-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmandel

the DFG already said they can't (and my guess is honestly, won't, as the politics and PR would be a nightmare) enforce it.

Don't worry, DFG is not needed for enforcement.

Using the Children's pool at LJ as an example, there will be "nuts" in 150 HP Zodiacs yelling at you through a bull horn, cutting lines and ramming boats "enforcing MLPA law"

I'm just saying....

peguinpower · 11-10-2009, 08:36 PM

I have something to say to those tree huggin wack job enviros....

fryguy · 11-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunburn

Don't worry, DFG is not needed for enforcement.

Using the Children's pool at LJ as an example, there will be "nuts" in 150 HP Zodiacs yelling at you through a bull horn, cutting lines and ramming boats "enforcing MLPA law"

I'm just saying....

Nah...from the looks of it, i bet most of them never go anywhere near the water.

I do wonder though - you'd think that if the Packard Foundation and other enviro interest groups spent all this effort and money to get their agenda, they'd have the DFG locked up too. Why would they overlook this?

Does anybody know what happens if there is no funding for the research or to monitor the MPAs? Do they just sit there and we get f*#ked for nothing?

Siebler · 11-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunburn

Don't worry, DFG is not needed for enforcement.

Using the Children's pool at LJ as an example, there will be "nuts" in 150 HP Zodiacs yelling at you through a bull horn, cutting lines and ramming boats "enforcing MLPA law"

I'm just saying....

Just remember the phrase "I was in fear for my life" and youll be fine

bellcon · 11-10-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Just remember the phrase "I was in fear for my life" and youll be fine

exactly...

that's the phrase I would have used if I was Charles
to explain the puddle on the floor

tylerdurden · 11-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Wow.

That sucked. I will post my full thoughts tomorrow or when I recover.

We came out OK in San Diego. Pretty bad in most other ways, ok in others.

I am so sorry for the battles that we lost. It was a tragedy. Some of our best grounds were lost forever.

I think our participation made a big difference in terms of LJ. If it wasn't for our turnout, we would still be arguing over the kelp in North LJ. Still, we could have turned out better throughout the process to support our access issues in all our launch and fishing zones.

Thanks to Paul L, MJ Kennedy, Joel G, Tommy G, and every RSG member on our side. You guys did great for us.

Dan · 11-10-2009, 09:36 PM

Tyler, Billy, Chris, Joe and everyone else on this board who put in their emails, comments and emotions.

Thanks for all your hard work and timely updates along the way. I was only batting about 50% for the meetings but tried to work a bunch of middle ground angles with "the others". I know for a fact that our noise (the kayakers and spearos) early on saved fishing access at La Jolla Canyon, the half and 3/4 all the way down to the lower NW. I'm still in utter shock and dismay that "norte" is for bait only. At least on days when there's no fog.

11-10-2009, 05:26 PM	#27
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	A big thank you to everyone who could make it today! Sorry I could not be there. Heres to hoping that the final details go smooothly and we can all enjoy fishing parts of La Jolla for the rest of our lives! As taken from http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/defs.asp#smca State Marine Conservation Area [36700(c) PRC] A "state marine conservation area," is a non-terrestrial marine or estuarine area that is designated so the managing agency may achieve one or more of the following: protect or restore rare, threatened or endangered native plants, animals or habitats in marine areas; protect or restore outstanding, representative or imperiled marine species, communities, habitats and ecosystems; protect or restore diverse marine gene pools; contribute to the understanding and management of marine resources and ecosystems by providing the opportunity for scientific research in outstanding, representative or imperiled marine habitats or ecosystems; preserve outstanding or unique geological features; or provide for sustainable living marine resource harvest. I like # 6... maybe they will allow pelagics... but its still sad about Swamis... I will always remember you: __________________ ____________________________________________ Last edited by dos ballenas; 11-10-2009 at 09:39 PM. Reason: [IMG]http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/picture.php?albumid=8&pictureid=141[/IMG]

11-10-2009, 06:09 PM	#28
Iceman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: 1-2 miles off the point Posts: 6,943	BIG Thanks to Kiyo and Baytubers for making sure we got fed today! That was alot of pizza! __________________

11-10-2009, 06:53 PM	#29
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	Great job feeding the troops Kiyo and the Baytubers crew... Now had I known I would've been fed...$hit, Andy showed up again? I most certainly would've showed up just to see the Master... __________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

11-10-2009, 06:58 PM	#31
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	__________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

11-10-2009, 08:36 PM	#35
peguinpower bing! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: socal Posts: 246	I have something to say to those tree huggin wack job enviros.... Last edited by peguinpower; 11-11-2009 at 04:12 PM.

11-10-2009, 04:37 PM	#21
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	Good News!!! They are talking about not changing the shape of the existing LJ reserve. That means that we could catch bait at the pier and fish for anything north of the pier except for a very small area just north of the pier as requested by Scripps. The BRTF member who lines up against us most of the time will not change her motion to allow this but others in the group seem to be supportive. Stay tuned. Bob

11-10-2009, 04:47 PM	#22
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	It's done. We have option 2. South LJ and Swami's are closed. We get a larger N. LJ area but also a larger La Jolla reserve, including all the areas north of the pier. This was very interesting to watch. It was obvious to me that the BRTF just wanted to get a result. In their own words, "this is not perfect" No Shit! The DFG cannot and will not enforce these new regulations. ADA issues may tie this up in court for years. Watching this process has reinforced my opinion that our Government is broken. Special interests always win. I suspect that we have not heard the end of this one yet however. Bob

11-10-2009, 05:06 PM	#23
Willy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: La Jolla Posts: 189	Well said Bob. We appricate the updates. I caught the end of the live cast on video and like you agree, the government is broken. Their attitudes at the end really did reflect they just wanted to get some result; science, fairness, and every other bit of hyperbole they used be damned. I'm ashamed our system has fallen into the hands of special interests, but money talks and bullsh!t gets a promotion. Hopefully the DFG will tell these folks to shove it. Sorry for the candor, but this process has me fully flustered. Well done to those who could make it today, and to those who put so much forth for us all. Willy

11-10-2009, 05:19 PM	#26
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	The shape that was put forward in the latest option 2 was approved. We will be allowed to catch bait at the pier with a hook but the area north of the pier will now be a SMCA, (State Marine Conservation Area). This means that the take from this area will be limited. I am not sure what the limitations are but given the way this thing has gone, I suspect that is is fairly close to a no-take zone. It is hard to tell from the map. http://resources.ca.gov/mlpa_scrsg/B...ons_091030.pdf It looks like the SMCA north of the pier does not include all of Blacks. I am sure Paul can provide more details. Bob

11-10-2009, 06:55 PM	#30
robmandel Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 186	bittersweet day. got to see lots of new friends again but under rather shitty conditions. such an awesome bond among us kayak fishermen. really awesome. there are not better people in the world. got there early, had to leave sometime after the break. had to get the kids from school and what not. really a shitty thing they did, with the public comment and all. did they ever get there??? guys, stand proud. we fought like hell. you have to understand. this process was a sham and the out determined right from the outset. it didn't matter what we did. we did everything we could, and Paul and our reps and guys who organized and got info and all that, went so far beyond the call. of course we had everything on our side: data, science, economics, and basic fairness and common sense. it didn't matter. the whole "public" part of this was the cover. they knew what they watned to do, and what they had to do to get it done. textbook tactics. you want A, B, and C so you ask for A, B, C, D, and E. so, you "give up" D and E which to them was the part of PV. they can say they heard the public, they listened, all that shit, made necessary swaps and trades and cuts, and all that. and in the end, get exactly what they wanted in the first place. we played on their turf, by their rules, with their referees. but we fought like hell. we didn't lay there and play dead. they perhaps didn't figure on that one. I knew it from the start, but it was never more evident when after the break marvelous meg up and decides that only Malibu option 1 will be discussed (my home turf). 3 met all the science, had the best kelp, a compromise on the canyon, best public access, and least commercaial and recreational loss. so she chooses the worst option. of course they saved rocky point (PV), taking that would have killed redondo and the city council made that one clear. this isn't the end. it's the beginning. they'll come back to close more. but for us, the fight must continue. legally, politically, etc. the DFG already said they can't (and my guess is honestly, won't, as the politics and PR would be a nightmare) enforce it. again, we put up a helluva fight and have every reason to be proud. know that there wasn't anything, or anything more, we could have done to alter the outcome. it was an honor to be able to stand tall alongside all ofyou that were there, at c-bad, at LAX, at LB, and LAX again. in the future, we need to do a MLPA protest event: we get as many of us as possible and do a major launch at each of the closed areas. just get a few hundred of us out there, all lined up, on the water, and make our presence known. waht a sight it would be !!! especially after the closures. again, you guys are awesome, amazing, and truly the best. this isn't a failure, it's a victory. it might not seem like it, but we fought and they didn't kill us. they've made us stronger. see y'all on the water.

11-10-2009, 07:13 PM	#32
bender0240 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 118	I'd like to personally wish the people of the MLPA the BEST of luck securing the $70million a year plus the cost of installing and maintaining the new boundary buoys, signage and documentation, a plethora of unforeseen costs and especially enforcement. sarcasm(i wish there was a sarcasm smiley) It should be cake to set aside $70mil a year in the most bankrupt state in the US. sarcasm Hey it was so easy for them to get to this point. It only took, how long since the bill passed? Ten years? They should have this thing up and running by AT LEAST 2020. No but seriously, good luck.sarcasm And to all you wanna-be enviro, greenpeace, save-the-cutest-animals, grass-smoking, tree-molesting, crystal-grippin', lazy, cheating, smarmy, two-faced, hypocritical pieces of shit: I find a lot of pleasure in the fact that you think this is a victory for us fisherman. I hope it causes you a great deal of pain. If I can find any way to add to that pain I certainly will.

11-10-2009, 09:14 PM	#39
tylerdurden Bad Clone Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 874	Wow. That sucked. I will post my full thoughts tomorrow or when I recover. We came out OK in San Diego. Pretty bad in most other ways, ok in others. I am so sorry for the battles that we lost. It was a tragedy. Some of our best grounds were lost forever. I think our participation made a big difference in terms of LJ. If it wasn't for our turnout, we would still be arguing over the kelp in North LJ. Still, we could have turned out better throughout the process to support our access issues in all our launch and fishing zones. Thanks to Paul L, MJ Kennedy, Joel G, Tommy G, and every RSG member on our side. You guys did great for us. __________________ MLPA, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem Let the Fish and Game Commission know what you think about the proposed maps. Be ready for December 9th and 10th.

11-10-2009, 09:36 PM	#40
Dan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,053	Tyler, Billy, Chris, Joe and everyone else on this board who put in their emails, comments and emotions. Thanks for all your hard work and timely updates along the way. I was only batting about 50% for the meetings but tried to work a bunch of middle ground angles with "the others". I know for a fact that our noise (the kayakers and spearos) early on saved fishing access at La Jolla Canyon, the half and 3/4 all the way down to the lower NW. I'm still in utter shock and dismay that "norte" is for bait only. At least on days when there's no fog.