Arnie and his enviro cronies screwed us--AGAIN

[zenspearo]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...aises-doubts-/


Michael Sutsos was such a new appointment to the California Fish and Game Commission that his photo still hadn’t been posted Monday on the Commission’s Web site.

No need to put it up now. Sutsos, 56, of Sonoma, who was appointed to the Commission on Sept. 9, by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, appears to have been unceremoniously unseated Monday, 18 days later, by the lame-duck California Governor. Sutsos sat in on one, two-day Fish and Commission meeting earlier this month, and now he’s gone.

Calls to Schwarzenegger’s office and the Fish and Game Commission were not returned. But Dan Richards, one of Sutsos’ fellow commissioners, said he received a call about it on Monday. Also, George Osborn, who represents several fishing organizations and the California Fish and Game Warden’s Association, said he was told Sutsos was removed from the Commission.

“Obviously he wasn’t going to vote the way the Governor wanted him to vote,” Osborn said. “He was more conscientious about California’s marine resources than he was about politics.”

The Ocean Conservancy, which throughout the process has backed the most severe ocean closures, could not be reached for comment.

Sutsos replaced Commissioner Don Benninghoven, whose confirmation never made it to the state Senate for approval after sportfishing groups complained about his conflict of interest regarding the Marine Life Protection Act. The MLPA, passed in 1999, calls for a network of marine protected areas along the California coast. The Fish and Game commissioners will have the final vote on all sections of the MLPA. The Central Coast and North Central Coast closures are in. The South Coast is in the environmental review period, and the North Coast section already is being worked on.

Benninghoven had been a member of the Blue Ribbon Task Force prior to his nomination to the Commission by Schwarzenegger and was viewed by both sportfishing and commercial fishing groups as a “shill,” which is what fellow Fish and Game Commissioner Dan Richards of Upland called him in an interview today.
“This just shows how corrupt this process is,” Richards said. “This process, the Marine Life Protection Act, is so corrupt, so offensive it’s unimaginable. Gov. Schwarzenegger is a forked-tongue devil.”

Richards and Jim Kellogg, the president of the Fish and Game Commission, were joined by Sutsos on a recent vote to extend the deadline for comment on the Draft Environmental Impact Report for the South Coast Region of the Marine Life Protection Act. Environmental groups like the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Ocean Conservancy have been battling sportfishing, commercial fishing and several public agencies on the matter of the extension. Those groups want more time to study the more than 500-page document and then comment on it. Kellogg called for a special Commission meeting, which will be held Wednesday, and Sutsos joined Richards and Kellogg in voting for the meeting to discuss the extension for the comment period on the environmental document.

“The reason I have such a problem with (Sutsos) getting taken off the Commission is that this denigrates and disrespects every person who worked on the MLPA process,” Richards said. “Many of the people who worked on the stakeholder groups weren’t paid, certainly weren’t hired guns. That’s why this is so offensive to me. These people don’t care about what the science says, what the reality is, or how what waters they close will affect people’s livelihoods.”

Richards said he once was one of Schwarzenegger’s biggest financial and political supporters. But he no longer is.

“He’s so worried about his legacy that he will do anything right now to preserve his legacy with this,” Richards said. “I have a feeling when this is all over, he’s not going to like his legacy one bit. His legacy right now is damn the people, the government knows more than the people. I truly hope (Schwarzenegger’s) legacy is appropriately tarnished by this.”

Richards said the first sign he saw of the Governor’s – and his environmental cronies -- complete manipulation of the MLPA process dates back to when Cindy Gustafson resigned as Fish and Game Commissioner. Many suspected Gustafson told Schwarzenegger’s staff that she wouldn’t vote for the more severe network of closures called for by the MLPA. When Gustafson let Schwarzenegger’s people know, she was forced to resign. Benninghoven moved over to the Commission seat from his role as chairman of the Blue Ribbon Task Force, which oversees the MLPA stakeholder groups and sends the final ocean closure options to the Commission.

The Blue Ribbon Task Force also has been criticized for being biased in its approach due to its environmental connections through task force member Meg Caldwell.

“Benninghoven was a plant by the radical environmentalists,” Commissioner Richards said. “(Sutsos) was asking reasonable questions about fisheries and what fisheries in California were in trouble. He sounded like one of the most reasonable people I’ve ever met. He was a reasonable voice who asked reasonable and intelligent questions.”

Richards said when Sutsos asked if any California fisheries were in crisis, the Department of Fish and Game staff could not identify one that was.
“That’s because when we did have fisheries in trouble, the federal and state regulations were changed to protect those species and bring them back,” Richards said. “Now those species have rebounded, and the Department says there isn’t one species that is in crisis. Yet these radical, left-wing environmentalists want to put up massive reserves to keep people from fishing. It’s all being funded, this takeover of California’s marine resources, by the Packard Foundation, backed by a billionaire with nefarious intentions. They are anti-fishing, anti-hunting, anti-people.”

Richards said the removal of Sutsos by Schwarzenegger will backfire on the Governor, now in the last months of his administration.

“They’ve already been sued (by fishing groups) for how corrupt the MLPA process has been,” Richards said. “This will anger even more fishermen and other groups, like the eight to 10 major public agencies who have requested more time to read this environmental impact report. That’s the problem this Governor is going to have. He’s not just fighting fishing groups with agendas. There are public agencies who want more time, too. But the radical environmentalists who are controlling this don’t want any public comments they’ll have to address. They want to limit comments and stifle input, which is exactly opposite of what the California Environmental Quality Act is all about. It is set up for legitimate challenges.”
Richards said he is speaking out because Schwarzenegger can’t do anything to him like he did to Sutsos.

“I’m confirmed, and he can’t pull me off the Commission,” Richards said. “He’s stuck with me.”

Richards said he once was a giant supporter of Schwarzenegger.

“I really believed in him,” Richards said. “That’s why this is so shocking to me and so disappointing. It’s like Fantasy Land up there in Sacramento these days. None of this is going to get us anywhere.”

Richards predicted that the MLPA closures will be overturned in court once all the corruption is exposed that went on with the process. He said a judge will look at the lack of time given for the environmental document in the South Coast Region and throw the document out.

“What (Schwarzenegger) did here with (Sutsos) is the height of arrogance, but it’s foolish beyond belief,” Richards said.


>>>>>>>>>>.

Tuesday, September 28, 2010
New commissioner gets axed

Governor Terminates New Fish and Game Commissioner

SACRAMENTO - Michael Sutsos of Sonoma is the most recent sporstsman to fall victim to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s wrath. Sutsos, so briefly a member of the Fish and Game Commission that his photo never made it onto the official commission webpage, was summarily terminated on Monday September 28 when the governor rescinded his appointment.

No replacement was named, but sportsmen can be sure the new commissioner will toe the governor’s aggressively anti-fishing line on the MLPA. Sutsos didn’t, voting with commissioners Dan Richards and Jim Kellogg merely to consider extending the South Coast environmental review period from a too-brief 45 days. The matter will be deliberated at a special session this Wednesday in McClellan, a Sacramento suburb. Prospects for an extension, necessary due to the complexity of the 545 page document, are now questionable.

The timing brings to mind another of the governor’s brazen MLPA power plays. Then commissioner Cindy Gustafson mysteriously resigned days prior to the implementation hearing for the MLPA’s north-central coast study region. Career politico Don Benninghoven was plucked from the head of the Blue Ribbon Task Force to hand deliver the decisive, anti-angler vote.

Ironically, Sutsos took Benninghoven’s commission seat when the state Senate chose to let the clock expire on his confirmation – largely at the behest of outraged fishermen. Fish and Game commissioners may serve up to a year without senate endorsement. Prior to that stamp of approval, commission appointees serve at the whim of the governor.

Sutsos’ commission term was snuffed after just 18 historically short days and a single two-day meeting. “I didn’t ask the right questions. Or maybe I did,” Sutsos said when reached at the Black Point Sports Club to explain his removal for hinting that he thinks for himself.

Commissioner Dan Richards was outraged by the governor’s maneuvers. “This just shows how corrupt this process is. This process, the Marine Life Protection Act, is so corrupt, so offensive it’s unimaginable. Gov. Schwarzenegger is a forked-tongue devil,” Richards told the Union-Tribune’s Ed Zieralski.

Richards went on to predict the move will come to haunt the governor, further taint his legacy, and expose the MLPA railroad job to legal challenge.

Calls to the governor’s office were not returned.

http://www.wonews.com/Blog.aspx?id=1...%20gets%20axed
__________________
A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together

[dos ballenas]

[Gino]

Richards predicted that the MLPA closures will be overturned in court once all the corruption is exposed that went on with the process. He said a judge will look at the lack of time given for the environmental document in the South Coast Region and throw the document out.

Depends on the judge... Theres alot of judges these days over ruling public opinions/votes. If the judge is from San Francisco it will all be pointless And Im not trying to cross issues. But that seems to be the trend in this states politics.

Unfortunately for Stan K G, "Reasonable" is a term for bending over and closing your eyes. The MLPA process has given fisherman nothing. And they have gained nothing out of it. There is nothing Reasonable about it.
No matter what Maps come up, its the Fisherman losing...
Another unfortunate aspect is there is alot of new Kayakfishing folks int he scene these days (not that im an old salt or a season vet myself) But Its important that these new folks get educated on this MLPA topic.

You get alot of Stan K G, and Young Mola comments alot these days becuase they werent around for the Meetings, and They werent around when the process was in the "infuence war phase" when the maps were being created. Its really a drag going over this process, over and over, It can be a turn off for people becuase its so long drawn out, and detailed. Including all the crooked politics behind it.
But its important to get more folks involved and educated.

This process allows for more closures at a later time, or map expansions... With this process being exposed for what it is. Kayak fishing has a very grim future. There has been many here who have dedicated themselves so much to this process. Its the rest of us who have a duty to spread the word, and insure our sport has a future in this state.

[Gino]

Lets not be hasetfull to prosecute the ill informed.

Stan, If you want you can give me a call, ill PM you my #. Ill explain a couple key points about the process so I can bring you up to date.


Excuse those with harsh comments. Many people put alot of time and hard work into fighting these closures. Its a passionate topic.

[dsafety]

The apparent fact that the powers that be do not want a reasonable moderate who pays attention to the facts involved with the DFG does not surprise me. We all know that most Government decisions are purchased by special interests these days.

All the Machiavellian twists and turns of the MLPA process now has me fully confused. Do we want the DFG to sit on its backside and not do anything for months and years to come? Do we want to push for a reasonable resolution soon? Which would be better?

The next question involves the incoming Governor. I tried for months, but could not pin down either the Brown or Whitman camp on where they stand on the MLPA issue. All I ever got were promises that someone would get back to me. We have no idea what either candidate might do once they gain power. Is the devil you know better than the devil you don't know?

My gut feeling is the Whitman might be more inclined to see things our way but if she is successful in buying her way into the Governor's chair, she will undoubtedly have a bunch of big political debts to pay off. Some of those payments could be going to people who do not agree with our point of view.

Brown, on the other hand is more of a known quantity. Unfortunately, his leanings have historically favored the the enviros. This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as he listens to some of the more reasonable people in that camp. We could end up getting screwed either way.

Brown and Whitman are debating tonight. It sure would be nice if someone could sneak in a question on the MLPA. Unlikely but one can hope.

Bob

[Gino]

Whitman is run by political advisors. What she will say in public and What she will say in private may be 2 differant things. (or even what shes saying in public for that matter)
Thats a Craps Table Dice roll...win big or bust.

Were as Jerry Brown is well connected with the political enviormental possey. His apointments to the Air/Carb board speak plainly enough. The guy seeks support from Unions and Enviormental influences. Besides why trust a man whos hands have been on the kiln shaping the mess this state is in. The guys been in CA politics for 40 years. Hes done nothing to stop it, what makes you think he will now? Hes never balanced a payroll in his life anyways.

Just look where the money is comming from, and whos contributing to whome. And youll have your answer to that question.

Ive said it before the next governor has the power to work on either sides behalf on this process. The State STILL doesn thave a budget for this year... It will be the least of the next Governors problems.

[MVC]

I would not expect to get any help from either Brown or Whitman. I hate to say it but unfortunately our best hope is with the Courts.

[T Bone]

Well forget about Jerry Brown.He is such a UN-represenative of the people that as ATTONEY GENERAL he took an OATH to UPHOLD THE LAW,that is to say THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.He is Taking a political stand (Stunt)against Prop 8 because its what his party stands on and his leftie buddies count on him to do.He should just say "I am Against it,but the people have spoken"Dont think that he cares what you think.As for Meg (Whitman not that tree banger Caldwell)I dont know what her stand is but she would seem to be the lesser of 2 evils.

[T Bone]

I dont like Meg Whitman either I just cant stand Jerry Brown...

[Ohana]

Originally Posted by MVC

I would not expect to get any help from either Brown or Whitman. I hate to say it but unfortunately our best hope is with the Courts.

Having dealt with the South County Air Quality Management District and their clean air mandate with regards to emissions and the printing industry, you are correct that the courts are the most effective way to put a stake in this vampire called the MLPA. Courts are something they fear as they have to present the facts and figures that they claim they based their decision process on. What I observed with the AQMD is a lot of assumptions and "we feel that..." statements are what they use in their decision process and the courts punch holes in these "facts".

Kevin

[Tman]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

How about instead of jumping up my ass you do some of that explaining and educating?

There's like 20 different maps for different proposals and none of the news articles cover what is likely to go into effect. All I'm seeing is each side calling the other nazi's and "devils".

Stan, no one (hopefully) means to jump up your ass, it's just that there has been from day one a unification with the kayakers and spearos in fighting this 'losing' battle and it still riles the phook out of alot of us.

As you stated, there's like 20 different maps...guess what, every time we thought we were compromising, giving in to save a little, they changed the shit on us so they could get what they want. There has been no compromise on their end, lotsa lies, and even more harassment by the other side in different forms.

Do a search, seek out some old posts on what actually went on in these meetings...you will be shocked, and even more shocked that the whole time this shit was going on you were one of the many who were unaware of how bad we were about to be phooked....

Like I said, no one is pissing in your direction, but we can finally open up about how this whole process was flawed, fixed, and the BRTF was bought and paid from day one...

[Grego]

This is just plain BS.....the best we can do is comment on the DEIR, then watch them ignore, tap dance around, or half ass address the comments.

[robmandel]

Originally Posted by zenspearo

Somebody else takes this.

general zenspearo, I'm on the ground for you anytime you call!! you were awesome at our meetings. if I didn't say it before, thanks a million!!

Originally Posted by Stan K G

How about instead of jumping up my ass you do some of that explaining and educating?

There's like 20 different maps for different proposals and none of the news articles cover what is likely to go into effect. All I'm seeing is each side calling the other nazi's and "devils".

you have no idea the bloodletting fight we went through. if you weren't in carlsbad, long beach, ontario, wherever the hell else, as a whole bunch of us were, you can't understand what we faced. for those of us, LJ guys, malibu guys, spearos, we fought a life and death battle. I consider all of them my brothers. I'd go to war with them any time. as long as blood runs through my veins, I'm all in.

first, the emotional legacy of this event alone is enormous. we faced literally, from teh start, a death sentence. so your "compromise" is a bad situation that could have been so much worse. which sounds like a compromise, except there was no "give" on the enviro part. they got to take, take, take. they just didn't take it all. yet.

second, you have no understanding of the web of conflicts, compromises, and outright dishonest and illegal activities. look, I spent a ton of time investigating, and there were business partners (schem and anderson) on the BRTF, who sold out their votes to save their asses in MDR. the head of the BRTF was bought and paid for by the monterey bay aquarium via the packard foundation, who also funded the entire mlpa process. there so much more. the group running the show, the RLFF, gets its money from the PF and MBA. and the chair of that group is a colleague of meg caldwell's at stanford. there's a huge, I mean HUUUUUGE freaking web of conflicts.

you didn't see school teachers parade in their whole classroom and stand there parroting lines they were given extra credit to recite a bunch of mindless shit. while our ass-kicking kid Clay jumped into the fray like a fighter, stood tall, and kicked the shit outta those bastards. T-Man, you got a great boy there!! and what that asshat wiseman did to your son, man you got some self-restraint!!!

you didn't see the mistreatment and outright abuse we suffered while the laguna tuna battalion got to ramble on and on. I could go on...

from teh start, it was a decked stacked so much against us. it was supposed to be a simple, get in-get out-get done, deal, steamroll us and move on. but we stood there at the pass of the hot gates, and there weren't even 300 of us.

anyways, it ain't about closures, compromises, and science. it's principle. fishing is a right, we've hurt nobody, and we aren't the problem. they put our backs to the wall and lined up the firing squad. the whole process has nothing to do at all with protecting marine species. period. it's a disgusting abuse of power. remember, there was no victory for us. if they did nothing at all, we'd be where we started with, which was all we wanted. we asked for nothing from anybody. simply wanted the dfg to manage the game, which is their job, which is what out license money goes for. period. no matter what happened, we lost. period. that is no compromise. we are no special interest. special interests ask government for favors, money, special privilege. all we want is to be left the hell alone. period. we don't hurt anyone, nobody has been aggrieved by us, nobody has cause for redress. period.

we are the victims of a tyrannical government run amock. and we're still gonna fight like hell.

I'm sure you don't know any of that, which is fine. go back, read the old posts about what happened.

[zenspearo]

From: http://www.mercurynews.com/californi...nclick_check=1

Jack Baylis to be appointed Fish and Game Commissioner

"Fish and Game Commission to hold special meeting on fishing limits
By Melissa Pamer Staff Writer
Posted: 09/28/2010 06:42:56 PM PDT
Updated: 09/28/2010 06:52:34 PM PDT

A state commission will hold a special meeting Wednesday to consider extending the public comment period for a controversial plan that could halt or limit fishing in nearly 400 square miles of waters off Southern California.
A large area off Point Vicente on the Palos Verdes Peninsula would be affected by the plan, which was developed under the state's Marine Life Protection Act, known as the MLPA.
The 11-year-old law, designed in part to protect ocean habitat, prompted a lengthy and closely watched process that last year divided fishing interests and environmentalists over which coastal waters should be designated marine protected areas.
The five-member California Fish and Game Commission, which has in recent weeks seen abrupt changes in its makeup, will today at a noon meeting near Sacramento vote on whether to allow another 45 days for comment on a lengthy environmental review of the proposal.

A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said late Tuesday that a new appointee - Jack Baylis of Los Angeles - would be announced this morning and would participate in the meeting.
Baylis, an executive with global design and engineering firm AECOM, is on the board of the state Coastal Conservancy and is a former board member of nonprofit local advocacy group Heal the Bay. The group pushed for strong local protections - some of which were intensely opposed by South Bay fishermen - during the MLPA process.
Commission Deputy Executive Director Adrianna Shea said today's vote comes in response to requests from members of the public who wanted more time to examine a state-required environmental report that is more than 500 pages long.
"They're saying it's because it's a large document and they need time to review it. Others are saying it's a stall tactic so a decision won't be made until after the election," Shea said.
The report focuses on a compromise plan that was approved last year by the MLPA initiative's Blue Ribbon Task Force. The Fish and Game Commission must certify the review and related regulations before marine protected areas can be created.
The report was made available Aug. 18. Comment is currently due Oct. 4, and commission staff expected a vote on the plan by December.
If an extension is approved today, comments would be due in mid-November and a commission vote on the landmark marine initiative would not occur until after a new governor is in office following the Nov. 2 election, Shea said.
Today's vote comes after a period of uncertainty about the Fish and Game Commission's membership.
Last month, Don Benninghoven, a commission appointee who was thought to be sympathetic to environmentalists and who had previously overseen the Blue Ribbon Task Force, was not confirmed to the post by the state Senate.
Then, on Sept. 9, Schwarzenegger's office announced a new appointee: Michael Sutsos, a 56-year-old Sonoma resident who is president of a Bay Area hunting club.
Sutsos participated in one two-day commission meeting in mid-September. At that time, he voted with the majority to bring the MLPA public comment extension to a vote at today's meeting.

On Monday, Sutsos told commission staff that he had been informed his appointment was being withdrawn, Shea said. Schwarzenegger spokesman Matthew Connelly would not say what caused the change in commission makeup. "It didn't work out. It's a personnel matter and I can't really go beyond that," Connelly said.
Baylis would have to be confirmed by the state Senate within one year or his appointment would expire, Shea said. If confirmed, Baylis' term would expire in 2016.
melissa.pamer@dailybreeze.com
Find out more
What: Fish and Game Commission meeting to consider extending public review of an environmental report on a plan to limit or halt fishing and protect ocean habitat in Southern California.
Where: The meeting is in McClellan, Calif. Watch online at cal-span.org.
When: Noon today
More info: The review document is available at dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/regulatorydocs_sc.asp"

[Cheney]

So with Baylis being appointed, this is a nail on the coffin? Or is there still a chance to get the extention?

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

For example, has anyone brought up the argument that if zones are made catch and release, legal fishermen are very prone to reporting poachers to DFG, whereas no-fish zones would just be prone to poaching without any law abiding fishmen around to report it.

I think kind of argument would resonate well given the DFGs manpower shortages.

The very guy who started this post along with Mr/ Lebowitz were the ones who were the "level headed" folks who took on the taste to represent us. your ill informed.

Everything You have said was brought up, and has been exuasted. There was very little comproise on anything. There was some succes to get Hook n Line fishing allowed in La jolla, but it didnt help our Spearfishing friends.

They had a certain territory type size and requirments going into the map making process.... Most of the maps your looking at was the bare minimum... And they still pushed for more.

Your ill informed, sorry but the MLPA website isnt going to help you all that much. I gave u my # and i sent you a PM i was willign to help explain or answer questions fro you. That offer is still int he table

But let me suggest you keep quiet when you go on with other political Jargon, its not apart of the topic. The group of people on this forum and those who fought agaisnt the closures are far from "Tea Party" folks many of them being Democrats. Theres no partisan politics involved in out side of this process. So leave that in the shitter.

Alot of guys took time away from there famlies, there vacation time from work, and more to show up at a multiple meetings from San Diego to LA and inbetween... for 15 secounds of speaking time at a public comment. Only to find out the public comments were almost largely a front for "transparency" may of these folks were at these meetings all day long.
Do you know the owners of this very site make a good deal of money of kayakfishing... some of these closures potentially could have really hurt there buisness. They arent the only ones either...

Like I said some folks are Quite bitter about it. You werent there you werent involved. So keep your trap shut

This group of folks Raises every year over 10K or more for Cancer or a families in need. Thats just 1 tournament. Ask all the Questions you have about the MLPa. But Give this comunity a little more respect. Youll get a a more friendly response.

[Gino]

Hey i was only stating a fact which is true. I put no partisan Endorsement on my post... Thats the part where you came in touting your "Tea Party" Acusations... And your Post about Muslim or Mexicans was highly Racist. Not sure where that came from.

If you read the origional post of this thread it talked about the Governors influence on the MLPA process, so naturally talking about the Governors Race and its canidates makes sense. Considering things could change extremely. I gave a critical opions on both of them. And I made the closing point of that when i said the next governor has and will have more important issues than the MLPA to worry about. So putting our chips in that direction isnt going to do us much good.,

And I told you, Id be willing to explain the problems with the maps for you. I sent you a PM and a phone number. so we could spare this thread the posting stress.

(then there's the problem of some of you guys wanting no preserves at all, even existing ones, so that's some counter extemism to the extreme environmentalists)

There was men fishing feeding there Families long before there was a "Marine Reserve" Not sure thats counter Extremeism. We arent telling the Enviormentalist what they can or cant do. We are telling them what they cant do to us. Like I said Your clearly uneducated on the issue. Ill even go to the extent of saying you may have a warped view on what public process is about. Or how it works.

Why dont you tell us where your comming from. Since you clearly cant comprehend our side of the issue. . What facts do you bring to the table to support the MLPA closures and the current Maps selections. What Science do you have to back up your opinion. And Lets here your Ideas.
You havent Asked 1 question, all youve done is talk shit.

And for the record. If venting and ranting got us a free soda from Burger King, Itd be alot more than what we got from having an "inteligent Dialect" and "reaching across the Isle" or what you call "reasonable compromise" ever got us in this process

So lets hear it. Why are the MLPA maps to you a good compromise? dont be shy.

[T Bone]

Stan, since your new you are going to get a pass...

I have been dealing mainly with my sons cancer this last year and havent had the opportunity to go to many meetings.I did make it to the one in Ontario at the Doubletree and got to meet many of you there.I can say that Kayak fisherman and Spearos were about 90% of the turnout for our side.No one really representing sportboat landings that I meet(who have a monetary stake in this)none of the Newport Lobster fleet(who will lose Laguna)just a few other fisherman.
You are literally speaking DIRECTLY to the ones fighting the fight for fisherman right here.A very clean fight too I might add.So thats a little something for you to chew on before you go any further.

To my brothers in arms
We will raise up our glasses against evil forces...

[deepdvr]

Stan, why be so combative? Obviously, your views are not those of just about everyone on this forum. It's time to let this one die on the vine. You are not going to convert anyone here.

This is a very sensitive topic for everyone on this forum. There are other means of fostering 'conservation' that don't involve restricting access. We've been advocating this from day one. There is a reason we have a department of fish and game and regulations. This is simply a land grab by the other side.

As was stated before, you are new here but don't make the rookie mistake off stepping in this one. Many here have devoted a tremendous amount of time, money, lost wages, etc. to the cause.

[Grego]

What the F...seems like the enviros are hunting and fishing around this board AGAIN with this stan man and bmercury login names