Line Visibility - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

FISHIONADO · 12-18-2008, 09:51 AM

I've always used flouro leaders because I thought it was less visible and attracted more strikes. Maybe that is true with a slow moving live bait. The link below (more marketing than article) shows that line visibility isn't an issue for jointed rebels. Are fish really smart enough to know that a line in front of a bait is bad news? Maybe some species like halibut have better eyesight and it matters more for them?

http://www.mexfish.com/apgs/rebels/rebels.htm

LEADERS AND LINE: Supposedly, the lighter the line you use, the more strikes you will get, right? In practice, we found that using line up to about 25 pound test with Jointed Rebels worked just fine. More than that causes problems with lure action and will cost you hits. However, I am 100 percent convinced that the problem with heavy line is not line visiblity. This is because Neil Kelly, who absolutely hated to waste time tying on new lures, always fished with an ugly, six-inch black plastic coated wire leader with a big, ugly snap at the lure end. This way, Neil could snap on new lures in seconds. In an effort to beat Neil's incredible fish counts, I usually tied on direct, and sometimes I would go down as low as 6-pound line to beat Neil's 25-pound. In all the years we fished togther I NEVER ONCE beat Neil. So much for line visibility.

THE DARKHORSE · 12-18-2008, 10:27 AM

Wow, sounds like Neil can fish. What are these guys fishing for, gator Gar

?

Siebler · 12-18-2008, 01:04 PM

There is no doubt that some lures swim better on heavier, stiffer line. Just ask any of the old sportboat guys about Twisting Wire for fishing the Iron.

Remember that a live bait is very often a more thought out bite by a fish than a Reaction bite like you get with most lures (with the exception of soft plastics).

FISHIONADO · 12-18-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siebler

Remember that a live bait is very often a more thought out bite by a fish than a Reaction bite like you get with most lures (with the exception of soft plastics).

That makes sense.

BTW, I've got a silver rebel jointed fast trac lure, all I've caught with it are bonita. Those are just nuisance fish to me, like sand bass.

steamroll · 12-19-2008, 07:37 AM

Dave,

That monster in your avatar was caught without a leader, right? Straight spectra?

forefrazier · 12-19-2008, 07:46 AM

"Maybe some species like halibut have better eyesight and it matters more for them?"

This one was caught on straight 65lb spectra dropper loop....Go figure.

FISHIONADO · 12-19-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamroll

Dave,

That monster in your avatar was caught without a leader, right? Straight spectra?

True, 65# green spectra on a fast trolled rapala cd-14. I'm thinking like C.J., there are reactionary bites on something like a pulsing rapala or fast iron, and then there are the slower bites like halibut and WSB where it might matter more. Otherwise why wouldn't we use wire leaders for all applications? The bass fisherman sure believe in lighter line, and most halibut fisherman. I'm only asking because I haven't caught a decent fish in a long time. I want to exploit every technique.

I really like trolling my rapalas with spectra, usually with a short flouro leader, because you can see so much action in the rod tip from the swimming lure. I can tell the moment a single piece of grass or kelp gets hooked.

FISHIONADO · 12-19-2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forefrazier

"Maybe some species like halibut have better eyesight and it matters more for them?"

This one was caught on straight 65lb spectra dropper loop....Go figure.

Nice! Do you always use straight spectra?

Holy Mackerel · 12-19-2008, 08:14 AM

I'd be afraid of pulling a hook with straight spectra (and have), but looks like you guys are onto something!

landwhale · 12-19-2008, 08:15 AM

I switched to straight 65lb braid when throwing my spinner baits. Being a reaction bait I have not noticed a drop in fish caught, and those big spotties don't break off anymore. I have landed over 3lb spotties and sandies over 4lb with it .

forefrazier · 12-19-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

Nice! Do you always use straight spectra?

No...total fluke. I just had my fluoro leader busted off by a thresher and was too lazy to tie another one on so just tied a quick dropper loop and sent it down. A few minutes later....that butt was on the end of it.

dorf · 12-19-2008, 09:48 AM

Everyone is talking about what the fish “see”. What about what the fish “feel”?
Don’t you think that a larger diameter line would cause more disturbance in the water that the fish would stay away. Halibuts might shy away from larger line not because they see the line but feel the disturbance in the water of the larger line. And what about your connecting not you are using to connect flouro leader on Spectra line or on your hook, jig or sinker? If it’s a big knot it will cause a different type of aquatic disturbance that might keep the fish away. The difference in line can cause a different disturbance also. When you look closely at flouro it is smooth compared to the coarseness of a breaded line.
I am by no means an expert. I use 65lbs spectra with a 25lbs flouro when hunting the big guys. I also use 12 and 15 pound mono for smaller guys in the harbor. These thoughts came to me when reading your posts. What do you think?

12-18-2008, 09:51 AM	#1
FISHIONADO Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 698	Line Visibility I've always used flouro leaders because I thought it was less visible and attracted more strikes. Maybe that is true with a slow moving live bait. The link below (more marketing than article) shows that line visibility isn't an issue for jointed rebels. Are fish really smart enough to know that a line in front of a bait is bad news? Maybe some species like halibut have better eyesight and it matters more for them? http://www.mexfish.com/apgs/rebels/rebels.htm LEADERS AND LINE: Supposedly, the lighter the line you use, the more strikes you will get, right? In practice, we found that using line up to about 25 pound test with Jointed Rebels worked just fine. More than that causes problems with lure action and will cost you hits. However, I am 100 percent convinced that the problem with heavy line is not line visiblity. This is because Neil Kelly, who absolutely hated to waste time tying on new lures, always fished with an ugly, six-inch black plastic coated wire leader with a big, ugly snap at the lure end. This way, Neil could snap on new lures in seconds. In an effort to beat Neil's incredible fish counts, I usually tied on direct, and sometimes I would go down as low as 6-pound line to beat Neil's 25-pound. In all the years we fished togther I NEVER ONCE beat Neil. So much for line visibility. Last edited by FISHIONADO; 12-18-2008 at 09:56 AM. Reason: changed "fish" to "bait"

12-18-2008, 10:27 AM	#2
THE DARKHORSE Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seven minutes from the launch! Posts: 987	Wow, sounds like Neil can fish. What are these guys fishing for, gator Gar? __________________

12-18-2008, 01:04 PM	#3
Siebler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richland Oregon Posts: 1,547	There is no doubt that some lures swim better on heavier, stiffer line. Just ask any of the old sportboat guys about Twisting Wire for fishing the Iron. Remember that a live bait is very often a more thought out bite by a fish than a Reaction bite like you get with most lures (with the exception of soft plastics). __________________ CJ Siebler

12-19-2008, 07:37 AM	#5
steamroll Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 385	Dave, That monster in your avatar was caught without a leader, right? Straight spectra? __________________

12-19-2008, 08:15 AM	#10
landwhale Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach Posts: 506	I switched to straight 65lb braid when throwing my spinner baits. Being a reaction bait I have not noticed a drop in fish caught, and those big spotties don't break off anymore. I have landed over 3lb spotties and sandies over 4lb with it . __________________

12-19-2008, 07:46 AM	#6
forefrazier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: OC Posts: 397	"Maybe some species like halibut have better eyesight and it matters more for them?" This one was caught on straight 65lb spectra dropper loop....Go figure.

12-19-2008, 08:14 AM	#9
Holy Mackerel Señor member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,627	I'd be afraid of pulling a hook with straight spectra (and have), but looks like you guys are onto something!

12-19-2008, 09:48 AM	#12
dorf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 279	Everyone is talking about what the fish “see”. What about what the fish “feel”? Don’t you think that a larger diameter line would cause more disturbance in the water that the fish would stay away. Halibuts might shy away from larger line not because they see the line but feel the disturbance in the water of the larger line. And what about your connecting not you are using to connect flouro leader on Spectra line or on your hook, jig or sinker? If it’s a big knot it will cause a different type of aquatic disturbance that might keep the fish away. The difference in line can cause a different disturbance also. When you look closely at flouro it is smooth compared to the coarseness of a breaded line. I am by no means an expert. I use 65lbs spectra with a 25lbs flouro when hunting the big guys. I also use 12 and 15 pound mono for smaller guys in the harbor. These thoughts came to me when reading your posts. What do you think? __________________ Don't try to confuse me with facts! I hereby reject your reality and submit my own.