CDFG - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

LSmoot · 08-29-2016, 11:56 AM

@wiredantz I thought about your idea of not signing the license, but if I remember correctly the retailer (I usually buy from Big 5) always has made me sign right there at the register before I pay for it. I would bet they would not sell it to me if I don't sign it. Interesting to think about.

On another note, I understand we all may not agree with each other on this issue, but I do not understand why trying to defend one's rights provokes such a protest by some of us. To be clear, I am not saying we must or should agree with each other. But whatever you believe, it is beyond me why we get so worked up about it. When defending your rights is met with such anger and protest, it is just sad in my opinion. It’s already an uphill fight against the government, we don’t need to fight each other too.

What is so wrong about trying to defend one’s rights? It may be true that using a Constitutional defense is an uphill battle, or even impossible, but I say that is all-the-more reason to do so. On the other hand, it may not be. I’m sure it is also true, as I’ve read here, that such a defense would be laughed at. But, is that not the problem to begin with? After all, we either have a Constitution or we don’t.

Now, you may disagree with what the Constitution says, but then the battle you must fight is changing the Constitution, not beating down others who happen to disagree with you.

I do believe we need to manage the fisheries and stock - I get it. I don’t even mind paying for this service. I do think the MLPAs are ridiculous, as are fees for not having your license on you.

Bottom line for me is that an unchecked government of any kind tends to eventually result in a reduction of individual rights, so whenever I see some folks using their heads to fight for their rights, I say go for it.

Kayak_Bernie · 08-29-2016, 12:57 PM

No one is forcing you to buy a license, you have the choice to fish and if you choose to fish then you must buy a license , or suffer the consequences. Period

No government or society is ideal, but if you think its bad here. Try living in a country that will execute its own citizens for trying to educate themselves. Or in a country where all of the fish and game are property of the King and taking even one small bird can result in you and your family being put to death. Sure our laws and regulations aren't great, that is something we can ALL agree upon, but they are what we have and we have to play with the hand we are dealt, and work within a given framework to change and amend these laws. The pure and simple fact is that we as Americans have it way better than most people living on the planet earth right now. Over 2.9 BILLION or 33% of people on this planet make less than $3/day and 1.6 BILLION people lack sufficient housing. Just be glad that you have a roof over your head and a few bucks in your pocket. It can ALWAYS be much worse than forking over $50 bucks to a Tyrannical Oligarchy.

radastaff · 08-29-2016, 01:41 PM

just consider it a tax
its all funny money fiat anyways
faith and credit

P

east county dirtbag · 08-29-2016, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radastaff

just consider it a tax
its all funny money fiat anyways
faith and credit

P

Huh.

I mean... why should you even go to work, right?

Mr. NiceGuy · 08-29-2016, 09:17 PM

Fish free or die

radastaff · 08-30-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by east county dirtbag

Huh.

I mean... why should you even go to work, right?

Could just fish all day long, every day.
But then,
that would be work.

work aint work if you love doing it
can you keep loving it

Fight the good fight Frank..

P

wiredantz · 08-30-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSmoot

@wiredantz I thought about your idea of not signing the license, but if I remember correctly the retailer (I usually buy from Big 5) always has made me sign right there at the register before I pay for it. I would bet they would not sell it to me if I don't sign it. .

Order it online....

I just sent a certified letter to CDFW, explaining that I want a Free 2017 Fishing license, and i listed all the court cases.

wonder if they will respond...

I never knew that the words the law use are NOT the same ENGlish definition we know them as, they are defined under a very different definition when you look at the Black Law Dictionary.

Mr. NiceGuy · 08-30-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz

Order it online....

I just sent a certified letter to CDFW, explaining that I want a Free 2017 Fishing license, and i listed all the court cases.

wonder if they will respond...

Sounds about like asking the people who work the counters at the local DMV for legal rulings. Good luck with that.

But I like the logic, poetry and passion of the way you think.

A girl can dream, can't she?

PS, please don't vote for Hillary.

Silbaugh4liberty · 08-30-2016, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. NiceGuy

Sounds about like asking the people who work the counters at the local DMV for legal rulings. Good luck with that.

But I like the logic, poetry and passion of the way you think.

A girl can dream, can't she?

PS, please don't vote for Hillary.

Lmao!!! I love that last line! Honestly, I feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to vote for Hillary. The body count surrounding the Clinton's, the arrogance, the lies, etc. should speak for itself!!! But who am I kidding, voting is like a slave picking his new master. Therfore, I don't support voting for anyone for the President of the United States Corporation (yes, each alleged government agency is in fact a corporation/ company, check out www.dnb.com if you don't believe me). That's Dunn & Bradstreet, which you can find all corporations on.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

wiredantz · 08-30-2016, 04:45 PM

they said:

That California
Constitution does indeed guarantee the right of citizens to
fish in waters located upon public lands.

"The people
shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands
of the State and in the waters thereof"

If you read the section
thoroughly however, you will see that this section of the
Constitution also recognizes the authority of the
Legislature to impose seasons, limits and other regulations
pertaining to fishing.

“….the
legislature may by statute, provide for the season when and
the conditions under which the different species of
fish
may be
taken”

The fact that you have
to buy a fishing license, and abide by the seasons and bag
limit laws, does not take away your right to fish.

Thanks for asking.

Liz Orme
CA
Department of Fish & Wildlife
Law
Enforcement Division
(916)
717-9064

My reply was:

Thank you for your prompt reply,

I recently sent a letter and a fax to the Los Alamitos Office requesting a free license for 2017 because i believed the state was infringing in my right to fish for free.

You explained that you are using the word "Condition" as the legal statute to License Fishing.

The way "condition" is written is not legalese:

So the argument is that:

A license is a condition, but it is not one that has any connection to any specific species of fish to be taken. This language is very specific and refers to such things as tackle, bait, chumming, lures, etc. A fishing license has nothing to do with any such condition and it is not therefor not an included condition. If you disagree, please tell me one specific fish species that will more likely be induced to take my bait or lure depending upon whether or not I have a fishing license in my possession.

Please help us in this matter so to avoid confusion...

I would like to be referred to a or any supreme court case that has addressed this matter. As there is a debate within the CA fishing community of 3000 people of this very subject. We do not want them to get cited, so we are seeking lawful clarification.

Thanks,

Silbaugh4liberty · 08-30-2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz

Order it online....

I just sent a certified letter to CDFW, explaining that I want a Free 2017 Fishing license, and i listed all the court cases.

wonder if they will respond...

I never knew that the words the law use are NOT the same ENGlish definition we know them as, they are defined under a very different definition when you look at the Black Law Dictionary.

Nice! Let me know how they respond. Did you notarize the letter? Just curious.

Who's fishing Laguna this weekend???

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

wiredantz · 08-30-2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silbaugh4liberty

Nice! Let me know how they respond. Did you notarize the letter? Just curious.

Who's fishing Laguna this weekend???

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Nope, just wanted to know if they were going to respond.
2017 licenses are not even out yet... but i want to know what kind of BS there going to come up since the right to fish is defined.

CA does not stand alone declaring Fishing a right
https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/...ttoHunFish.pdf

08-29-2016, 12:57 PM	#2
Kayak_Bernie Live Watersports ProStaff Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Rolando Village Posts: 224	Our Government is Great but it's what we have.... No one is forcing you to buy a license, you have the choice to fish and if you choose to fish then you must buy a license , or suffer the consequences. Period No government or society is ideal, but if you think its bad here. Try living in a country that will execute its own citizens for trying to educate themselves. Or in a country where all of the fish and game are property of the King and taking even one small bird can result in you and your family being put to death. Sure our laws and regulations aren't great, that is something we can ALL agree upon, but they are what we have and we have to play with the hand we are dealt, and work within a given framework to change and amend these laws. The pure and simple fact is that we as Americans have it way better than most people living on the planet earth right now. Over 2.9 BILLION or 33% of people on this planet make less than $3/day and 1.6 BILLION people lack sufficient housing. Just be glad that you have a roof over your head and a few bucks in your pocket. It can ALWAYS be much worse than forking over $50 bucks to a Tyrannical Oligarchy. __________________ Heroes on the Water SoCal Chapter Safety Director

08-29-2016, 09:17 PM	#5
Mr. NiceGuy Manic for Life Join Date: May 2015 Location: San Diego Posts: 839	Fish free or die __________________ Another ho-hum day in Paradise

08-30-2016, 04:45 PM	#10
wiredantz Currently @ MLO Territory Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Under the Shadow Posts: 2,290	Good NEWS CDFW Responded: they said: That California Constitution does indeed guarantee the right of citizens to fish in waters located upon public lands. "The people shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof" If you read the section thoroughly however, you will see that this section of the Constitution also recognizes the authority of the Legislature to impose seasons, limits and other regulations pertaining to fishing. “….the legislature may by statute, provide for the season when and the conditions under which the different species of fish may be taken” The fact that you have to buy a fishing license, and abide by the seasons and bag limit laws, does not take away your right to fish. Thanks for asking. Liz Orme CA Department of Fish & Wildlife Law Enforcement Division (916) 717-9064 My reply was: Thank you for your prompt reply, I recently sent a letter and a fax to the Los Alamitos Office requesting a free license for 2017 because i believed the state was infringing in my right to fish for free. You explained that you are using the word "Condition" as the legal statute to License Fishing. The way "condition" is written is not legalese: So the argument is that: A license is a condition, but it is not one that has any connection to any specific species of fish to be taken. This language is very specific and refers to such things as tackle, bait, chumming, lures, etc. A fishing license has nothing to do with any such condition and it is not therefor not an included condition. If you disagree, please tell me one specific fish species that will more likely be induced to take my bait or lure depending upon whether or not I have a fishing license in my possession. Please help us in this matter so to avoid confusion... I would like to be referred to a or any supreme court case that has addressed this matter. As there is a debate within the CA fishing community of 3000 people of this very subject. We do not want them to get cited, so we are seeking lawful clarification. Thanks, __________________ Team: Disbanded You only have one chance in this life...make the right decision(s)...so you don't regret it

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08-29-2016, 11:56 AM	#1
LSmoot Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 115	@wiredantz I thought about your idea of not signing the license, but if I remember correctly the retailer (I usually buy from Big 5) always has made me sign right there at the register before I pay for it. I would bet they would not sell it to me if I don't sign it. Interesting to think about. On another note, I understand we all may not agree with each other on this issue, but I do not understand why trying to defend one's rights provokes such a protest by some of us. To be clear, I am not saying we must or should agree with each other. But whatever you believe, it is beyond me why we get so worked up about it. When defending your rights is met with such anger and protest, it is just sad in my opinion. It’s already an uphill fight against the government, we don’t need to fight each other too. What is so wrong about trying to defend one’s rights? It may be true that using a Constitutional defense is an uphill battle, or even impossible, but I say that is all-the-more reason to do so. On the other hand, it may not be. I’m sure it is also true, as I’ve read here, that such a defense would be laughed at. But, is that not the problem to begin with? After all, we either have a Constitution or we don’t. Now, you may disagree with what the Constitution says, but then the battle you must fight is changing the Constitution, not beating down others who happen to disagree with you. I do believe we need to manage the fisheries and stock - I get it. I don’t even mind paying for this service. I do think the MLPAs are ridiculous, as are fees for not having your license on you. Bottom line for me is that an unchecked government of any kind tends to eventually result in a reduction of individual rights, so whenever I see some folks using their heads to fight for their rights, I say go for it.

08-29-2016, 01:41 PM	#3
radastaff Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 314	just consider it a tax its all funny money fiat anyways faith and credit P