12/16 pesky lil #%^

[tunaseeker]

WOW...BSB or is that Big Sun B*!%*

[jorluivil]

Originally Posted by tunaseeker

WOW...BSB or is that Big Sun B*!%*

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[blitzburgh]

HOLY CRAP!

[yakrider]

I hear tell they's gud eatin'

[DESTROYER]

That's a biggun Ice!

And they are good eating!

[Iceman]

What a beast! What is that lure?

blue white/glowback Sumo Jr.

Brent and I discovered them at a trade show in Vegas about 4 years ago and started stocking them. Made by Tady, meatier hooks than Salas and great finish and glow. I deadstick em alot.........6Xjr still has better wiggle.

I was given some BSB caught in Mexico and did not care for the texture of it

My 2nd BSB in 4 trips.............no thank you!.........I even thought about using my foot for leverage

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Iceman

blue white/glowback Sumo Jr.

Brent and I discovered them at a trade show in Vegas about 4 years ago and started stocking them. Made by Tady, meatier hooks than Salas and great finish and glow. I deadstick em alot.........6Xjr still has better wiggle.

Great jigs. Good hooks, great finish.

If I'm casting and working it I prefer the JR, but I also like the 105 which is almost identical in shape but an ounce heavier. For the fast drop or deadstick I like the 105, but they are both great jigs.

I think I first bought them at Rusty Hook in Pedro but have been using them for years now.

Nice Black Andy looks like a SBI fish

Jim

[kobra]

Looks like a hell of a workout Andy.

[old_rookie]

Do they revive themselves? Or do you need to tie a 10lbs weight to put them back down?

[SquidJig]

Originally Posted by old_rookie

Do they revive themselves? Or do you need to tie a 10lbs weight to put them back down?

I don't mean to plug another company, I just happened to read this article last night. I found it helpful but it seems the suggested five pounds isn't going to cut it with the BSB people have been pulling up lately.

http://charkbait.com/article/rajb3.htm

[SquidJig]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

If I'm casting and working it I prefer the JR, but I also like the 105 which is almost identical in shape but an ounce heavier.

Jim

I recently replaced an old 6x Jr and I swear the new one is heavier and definitely doesn't kick like the old one. Do 6x Jrs come in different weights? And do you really have to buy several irons to get one that swims well?

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by SquidJig

I recently replaced an old 6x Jr and I swear the new one is heavier and definitely doesn't kick like the old one. Do 6x Jrs come in different weights? And do you really have to buy several irons to get one that swims well?

OHHHHH Noooooo!!! The voodoo of the good jig myth....

I mean really who knows but as usual I have a few theories....

6XJR's are die cast, and they are still using the same molds that they always have as far as I know.

In other words the 6X you buy today should in theory be exactly the same size and therefor it should be pretty close to the weight of the ones you have purchased in the past. That said there are few variables that effect the process, and these have been debated for decades.


I don't know the exact makeup of the alloy they are using for 6XJR's but like everyone else they are buying that alloyed metal from somewhere.

They then melt it down and pour it into those same molds they have used for years. Whatever that alloy is: it's a mix of various elements each with their own weight. Simply put depending on what that exact alloy's composition is: it's weight can vary, and depending on where they bought it it probably does..

Just for an example let's use copper based alloys. Self serving on my part since I used to run a Bronze Foundry.

Silicon Bronze the stuff they make sculpture out of is mostly copper. Specifications for Everdur Bronze are 95 percent copper 4 percent silicon 1 percent Manganese. I'd call that a true silicon bronze. Herculoy another widely used bronze casting alloy is in contrast 92 percent copper, 4 percent silicon, 4 percent zinc. I don't like herculoy for a variety of reasons, and I'd say anything with zinc in it isin my opinion a form of brass.

Common yellow brass like you would see at home depot is something like 58% copper 39% zinc. Naval bronze has exactly that same ratio but has something like 1.2% percent added tin. Anything that has more then 80% copper and that contains around 4% silicon can be marketed as silicon bronze. There's C87500 which is 82% copper, C87600 89% copper, basically there is a shitload of alloys out there, all of which are technically called silicon bronze, but they are all slightly different due to the composition of the elements in the alloy.

Now as a bronze caster this was a huge issue for me. Sculptures are cast in sections. the pieces are then welded together. Zinc is not only lighter weight then copper but it's also lighter in color, so in order to keep it all the same color you have to have a matching copper content in every section cast and it also needs to be consistent in all the wire or rods used to weld them together. Once polished or patinaed I can visually tell the difference Everdur and Herculoy Silicon Bronze and if they get mixed in a project it it can totally screw everything up.

So to keep everything matching we only purchase Evedur Bronze from reliable sources. Fair enough, problem solved right...Wrong!!!

Even buying the best material from the best suppliers you still are constantly plagued with inferior alloys creeping into the process. I'm talking 10 thousand pound lots of ingot at 5 bucks a pound, you'd think it would be consistent. The fact is that it's so bad that with any given project of size we'd have to order all the metal for that project in a single order from a single supplier just not to get totally screwed.


I imagine that Salas Tady and all the local jigs are composed of alloys iron tin, zinc, and aluminum. Here's the part that applies to what I said above. Since each element in the alloy has a certain weight, and they are different weights, the ratio of the elements in the alloy in turn effect the weight of a given jig. You can have a jig poured one day, and one poured the next that are in every way identical, but the weight could vary slightly simply do to a different alloy. So even if you have people who give a damn pouring the jigs in the US you still might get varied weights simply because it's probably almost impossible to get the same alloy every time.

Anything cast outside the country and all bets are off. Trust me you never know what your going to get from outside the country.

So do jigs vary in how they act, kick or run .. yeah I'd say they do. Is it weight or alloy related.. It very well could be. It's not really just the weight it's the Relative density, or specific gravity in relation to the displaced water, and the jigs shape that make it swim.

Surface Irons are just lighter alloys then deep drop jigs, and therefore shaped different then deep drop irons in order to swim.

Every jig made will swim best with a specific mass to displacement ratio, and for each there is a specific alloy that will hit that sweet spot.

For instance I love tady 45's but every once in a while you get one that won't run right at all, that just keeps planing to the surface. On the other hand every once in a while you get one that is just absolutley amazing. Most of them are somewhere in between. I've also seen surface Iron that were some of them were super brittle and that would snap in half if you dropped them on the deck, but then others were indestructible. I'd say those things are likely alloy related.

Alloy aside.... If you look at your 6XJR's you'll notice that the hook rings are not all the same shape or size, that they all vary slightly do to the fact they were done by hand. Even little things like ring shape could in theory effect action.

That said it still sometime seems to be the luck of the draw.

Like I said who knows... For me with jigs I just pick them up bounce them around in my hand to check if the weight feels right, then look at the rings to see if they are round and if it looks and feels OK I buy it. I mean WTF it's more guesswork then brain surgery

If you find one that's runs well.... well... fish the shit out of it. If they run like crap.... well I call those loaners and gifts around here

Jim

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by SquidJig

I recently replaced an old 6x Jr and I swear the new one is heavier and definitely doesn't kick like the old one. Do 6x Jrs come in different weights? And do you really have to buy several irons to get one that swims well?

You may have had a 6XJR Lite. 6XJr's used to come in lite and heavy. Not sure if they still make the lites though, I haven't seen any in stores lately. I still have one 6XJR lite that I got as a handout @ the Moyer tourney 2 years ago. The lites are about 1/2 the weight of the heavies. They are the same exact shape, and have no markings to indicate the difference. Same with the 6X's, they both come in heavy and lite. I got a few 6X lites at the Moyer tourney this year.

As far as picking a jig that swims, I think it has to more with the shape than the weight, plus a few other factors like the size of the hole where the ring attaches. Yes, they are die cast, but there are multiple molds, and die-casting can be very inconsistent. Each mold is slightly different, and true iron purists know what to look for. I'm no purist.

If you care, here is a vid I don't have the patience to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_-KH438lFY

Here is a pic of some of my jigs. From the left, the 1st, 3rd and 5th jigs are lites, the 2nd, 4th, and 6th jigs are heavies.

No huge difference in shapes in the similar irons. Some have bigger holes, some have more tapered ends, and some have sharper edges on the topside, but nothing major. Only big different is that the lites are about 1/2 the weight. This is intentional, not due to accidental variations in the alloy mix. The 5th jig has some slough metal on the back, a perfect example of the slight differences that can happen in die-casting.





I like the Sumo Jr or Tady 4/0 as a deadstick, and the salas 6X Jr as a Yo-Yo.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by steveooo

From the left, the 1st, 3rd and 5th jigs are lites, the 2nd, 4th, and 6th jigs are heavies...... Only big different is that the lites are about 1/2 the weight. This is intentional, not due to accidental variations in the alloy mix. The 5th jig has some slough metal on the back, a perfect example of the slight differences that can happen in die-casting.

Cool stuff!!!

You can tell just by looking at the lettering that the the lights and heavies were poured in different molds.

Well you got me Stevooo..... I honestly I had no idea that Salas poured lite versions of the 6XJR in a lighter alloy. I only use the heavy ones, and when I checked mine all the same weight and from the same mold.

If the lites are half the weight, then obviously they are made from another alloy. So I was on the right track even if I had no idea they intentionally cast different versions of the jig in different alloys.

Wow half the weight... Hows the action? You would think it with that difference in weight it wouldn't be that hard to tell them apart.

Now you got me wondering if the previous "good" jig he had was actually a lite version, or just a slightly different heavy version with better action.

As to what I posted about inconsistency in casting alloys: I stick to my guns. I mean I've seen hundreds of thousands of pounds of metal poured, poured much of it myself, and I can guarantee you that even when buying the best metal from the best suppliers your always going to find variations in batches of any given alloy.

As you say there are a ton of variables involved in casting, how hot you pour, how clean your equipment is, oxides, slag, shrink, chasing and cleanup etc.... trust me I have seen it all, but I'd still say that discrepancy in alloy composition explains a lot of the variations I have seen over the years.

Like I said about stock Tady45's once in a while you get one that won't run right at all, sometimes you get one that is just absolutley amazing, and most of them are somewhere in between. I've sat there more then once looking at two absolutely identical T45's one that ran great and one the did not run right at all and thought WTF....Just based on my experience it would not surprise me at all if slight variations in the casting alloy could of caused that inconsistency.

Honestly the biggest Jig mystery to me is why the hell did Tady change the original TLC from the killer anchovy sized swimmer to the fat little thing it is now? The original was such a good Albacore and Bluefin jig!!! WTF were they thinking!!!

Steveoo you seem to know a lot more about jigs then me. I'd love to hear the history and rational about that one

Jim

[SquidJig]

Ooops! I didn't see dorado50's post. But I still want to plug the video. The guys who made it did a great job.

Originally Posted by steveooo

If you care, here is a vid I don't have the patience to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_-KH438lFY

This is a great video, steveooo. Thanks for the link.

Key things to look for: uneven 'hips', the wide points of the jig and big or off-center front holes. Hold the iron by the ring and swing it around in a circle. It should swing smoothly and evenly. If the front hole isn't quite right, jam a tool into it and offset the hole. There's also a lot of other good info in the video about types of irons and techniques. Definitely worth 14 minutes of anyone's time.

[Devildawgjj]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I deadstick em alot.........

What is that?

[Hunters Pa]

Originally Posted by Devildawgjj

What is that?

Drop it down, set the drag, put the rod in the holder & do something else.

[RK]

ANDY-- I literally caught three on three drops recently...... Obviously they need to be protected cause there obviously in jeopardy of going
extinct ........ Ive literally seen three rods go bendo at once all blacks its getting ridiculous... Im gonna start selling them to the Japanese


I call them boner killers...

[Iceman]

There is no way I could pull on more than one of these in a day...............I am getting old

Revived very easily just flip em right side up and point their head down.

[steveooo]

Nessie on the




I think it is safe to say that the LJ BSB population is very healthy. Fun to tug on, but a total heartbreak once you come to the realization that you don't have the right kind on