5/13 am close encounters of the furry kind - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

madscientist · 05-17-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yeah, you are right. We are all fricken idiots that don't know that sea lions eat fish. Sheesh.

I have seen the knothead grow increasingly aggressive and fearless over the last couple of years. I truly believe its just a matter of time until he decides he can get a fish out of someone's lap, and if he is successful once I think we'll have a real problem. An animal that has become so accustomed to humans is no longer "wildlife" and should be managed accordingly.

Sarcastic Fringehead · 05-17-2007, 09:56 AM

Maybe "unaware" was the wrong wording... "seem to forget" might have been a better choice. Whatever- I wasn't calling anyone an idiot. My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around. Seems lame to me. Maybe this sea lion is truly a menace. I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

madscientist · 05-17-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

Exactly! You don't know and you are assuming you know people's "mentality". No one is advocating a systemic elimination of sea lions, just concern about a particular animal. And LJ kelp is as much of a "ranch" as Balboa Park.

aguachico · 05-17-2007, 10:59 AM

I like the way the sealions swin off really fast in the Cortez when I paddle towards them.

. Mexican Marine Protection Act.

Earl E. Retire · 05-17-2007, 12:03 PM

SF, there's a natural ecosystem activity taking place here... If the only fishermen in LJ were other seals, knothead would have to challenge them for food. The peers would try to do painful things to knothead so they could keep their food. Instead, knothead is a protected species and has found an easier way to scrounge a meal than fighting his own kind for it. Yak fishermen are only doing the same thing as the peer dogs would do -- fighting back. As long as they fight fair (i.e., don't use methods that will harm other things or people in the process, don't break laws), the fishermen have every right to fight to deter knothead from being overly aggressive around them.
SF, just because you haven't had a bad experience with a dog doesn't mean other people who have been intimidated by knothead have to share your live and let live perspective. If I want to fight the furry bastard for my fish, then I have every right to.
EER

jscott · 05-17-2007, 12:53 PM

In malibu, I have had a bird steal my bait a couple times....many times they get snagged...and I do my best to release them unharmed. Benefit here is-- bird learns a lesson. The sea lions up there are curious around yakkers-- but have not been a problem. They stay a reasonable distance away-- if they get a little close-- a paddle slap on the water keeps them away. I don't believe I have had baits stolen up there from them. In fact, I regularly hang fish over the side-- such as bass, rockfish that I am taking home. When I hear a sea lion in the vicinity, I merely pick up the clip and toss in the back.
I have heard at least 3 stories over the last year or so of kayakfisherman getting fish stolen and yaks flipped in LJ. I never hang fish there. Knothead specifically, after seeing him in action-- merely cruises all the kayakfisherman, fearless-- picks up the baits (behind the hook leaving heads only on the hook)...then goes to next yakker. He does his rounds-- very successful. Smart guy-- and without any consequences from us==> will continue to do the same. In MS's story with the trap hook-- I bet the dog didn't like that one. I would bet, if all yakkers used trap rigs, it would slow him down. Unfortunately, I don't know what that would do for bait presentation for yellows/wsb--> may not be the way to go. This is no longer a 'wild' creature...it has become domesticated and expects a free meal. Unfortunately, when your pet dog jumps up on the table when you are eating, and you smack him on the nose-- no-one calls you an animal hater! You are training the animal to act appropriately. Why the issue in the case of the sea lion? Most suggestions here are non-lethal to TRAIN the animal to find another source of food.
Just my 2cents.
-scott

madscientist · 05-17-2007, 01:17 PM

I don't think the knothead even cares about the occassional hook in his mouth. Tyler hooked him earlier that day and I've hooked him many times. He usually avoids the hook but I figure his mouth must be pure scar tissue so he may not even care that much. In the past I've hooked him, tugged free, and had him come right back for more. He's definitely a tough mofo, I'll give him that.

Ed · 05-17-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around.

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

Tman · 05-17-2007, 03:00 PM

I like barking at his arse....think it confuses him.

He's not a very good dog either, doesn't even know how to fetch.
Every time I toss an iron to him, he just takes off the other way......

Sarcastic Fringehead · 05-18-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

It's actually not an exaggeration. But since you clearly think I have no idea what I'm talking about, why don't you ask a colleague of mine, Jim Carretta (who's been conducting pinniped and cetacean population studies for NMFS out of the La Jolla office) how many sea lions they come across on a yearly basis in S. Cal. that are dead as the result of gunshot wounds. Then after you get that number, and it's a big one, keep in mind it represents only a small fraction of the actual total, since the ones that are logged are only those that were floating and were observed. But that's a different debate. Use a slingshot if you feel inclined.

Ed · 05-18-2007, 07:22 AM

I didn't question how many shot sea lions researchers get turned in. I question you seeing them on any kind of a regular basis when fishing. How many have you reported to authorities?. Got any pics you have taken?. I spend a lot of time on the water and have for many years. I believe you are exaggerating and at the same time you are blaming anglers for these fantasy kills. That plays right into the hands of PETA. If you want to FU the future of our sport, keep making crap up and blaming it on anglers. And you never answered the question, how many shot dogs do YOU see? Where?. FYI - Most of those floating dogs you see are sleeping, even the ones with the flipper sticking straight up.

lol

Sarcastic Fringehead · 05-18-2007, 07:36 AM

That is funny. I guess my only time on the water that counts is from a kayak in La Jolla? And the ones with the gunshot wounds that are discovered were shot by non-anglers? Interesting. You make some great points. I'm a marine biologist by the way, and do, believe it or not, happen to know the difference between a sleeping and dead pinniped. I said it's lame to kill them. I didn't accuse kayakers of being the ones shooting them- though I've read plenty of posts from people who've said they'd like to. Say whatever you want...I'm done with this arguement.

Ed · 05-18-2007, 09:29 AM

So how many have you seen working or fishing?. You are deliberately evasive. You also blamed anglers again, and I'm not just talking about yakfishers but all anglers. There are a lot of ocean users and boat and property owners who don't like sea lions. Any biologist worth his salt knows that. There are also twisted individuals that just like to shoot things. You stated you've seen plenty of sea lions shot by some fisherman. A biologist should have a least some data to back up their rhetoric. You know, numbers, a bios stock and trade. What makes you so sure it was anglers? You can't even confirm how many you've seen. Sounds like you have an antifishing agenda. I suspect you are an emotional technician in training rather than a seasoned biologist. I can understand why you don't want to dig your hole any deeper.

Afran · 05-18-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

Say whatever you want...I'm done with this arguement.

05-17-2007, 09:56 AM	#2
Sarcastic Fringehead Junior Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Encinitas Posts: 15	Maybe "unaware" was the wrong wording... "seem to forget" might have been a better choice. Whatever- I wasn't calling anyone an idiot. My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around. Seems lame to me. Maybe this sea lion is truly a menace. I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food. __________________ My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating

05-17-2007, 01:17 PM	#7
madscientist Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,906	I don't think the knothead even cares about the occassional hook in his mouth. Tyler hooked him earlier that day and I've hooked him many times. He usually avoids the hook but I figure his mouth must be pure scar tissue so he may not even care that much. In the past I've hooked him, tugged free, and had him come right back for more. He's definitely a tough mofo, I'll give him that. __________________

05-17-2007, 03:00 PM	#9
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	I like barking at his arse....think it confuses him. He's not a very good dog either, doesn't even know how to fetch. Every time I toss an iron to him, he just takes off the other way...... __________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

05-18-2007, 07:22 AM	#11
Ed Fringe Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Drippin Chicken Water Ranch Posts: 140	BS I didn't question how many shot sea lions researchers get turned in. I question you seeing them on any kind of a regular basis when fishing. How many have you reported to authorities?. Got any pics you have taken?. I spend a lot of time on the water and have for many years. I believe you are exaggerating and at the same time you are blaming anglers for these fantasy kills. That plays right into the hands of PETA. If you want to FU the future of our sport, keep making crap up and blaming it on anglers. And you never answered the question, how many shot dogs do YOU see? Where?. FYI - Most of those floating dogs you see are sleeping, even the ones with the flipper sticking straight up. lol

05-18-2007, 07:36 AM	#12
Sarcastic Fringehead Junior Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Encinitas Posts: 15	That is funny. I guess my only time on the water that counts is from a kayak in La Jolla? And the ones with the gunshot wounds that are discovered were shot by non-anglers? Interesting. You make some great points. I'm a marine biologist by the way, and do, believe it or not, happen to know the difference between a sleeping and dead pinniped. I said it's lame to kill them. I didn't accuse kayakers of being the ones shooting them- though I've read plenty of posts from people who've said they'd like to. Say whatever you want...I'm done with this arguement. __________________ My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating

05-17-2007, 10:59 AM	#4
aguachico Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 719	I like the way the sealions swin off really fast in the Cortez when I paddle towards them. . Mexican Marine Protection Act.

05-17-2007, 12:03 PM	#5
Earl E. Retire Junior Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	SF, there's a natural ecosystem activity taking place here... If the only fishermen in LJ were other seals, knothead would have to challenge them for food. The peers would try to do painful things to knothead so they could keep their food. Instead, knothead is a protected species and has found an easier way to scrounge a meal than fighting his own kind for it. Yak fishermen are only doing the same thing as the peer dogs would do -- fighting back. As long as they fight fair (i.e., don't use methods that will harm other things or people in the process, don't break laws), the fishermen have every right to fight to deter knothead from being overly aggressive around them. SF, just because you haven't had a bad experience with a dog doesn't mean other people who have been intimidated by knothead have to share your live and let live perspective. If I want to fight the furry bastard for my fish, then I have every right to. EER

05-17-2007, 12:53 PM	#6
jscott Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 138	In malibu, I have had a bird steal my bait a couple times....many times they get snagged...and I do my best to release them unharmed. Benefit here is-- bird learns a lesson. The sea lions up there are curious around yakkers-- but have not been a problem. They stay a reasonable distance away-- if they get a little close-- a paddle slap on the water keeps them away. I don't believe I have had baits stolen up there from them. In fact, I regularly hang fish over the side-- such as bass, rockfish that I am taking home. When I hear a sea lion in the vicinity, I merely pick up the clip and toss in the back. I have heard at least 3 stories over the last year or so of kayakfisherman getting fish stolen and yaks flipped in LJ. I never hang fish there. Knothead specifically, after seeing him in action-- merely cruises all the kayakfisherman, fearless-- picks up the baits (behind the hook leaving heads only on the hook)...then goes to next yakker. He does his rounds-- very successful. Smart guy-- and without any consequences from us==> will continue to do the same. In MS's story with the trap hook-- I bet the dog didn't like that one. I would bet, if all yakkers used trap rigs, it would slow him down. Unfortunately, I don't know what that would do for bait presentation for yellows/wsb--> may not be the way to go. This is no longer a 'wild' creature...it has become domesticated and expects a free meal. Unfortunately, when your pet dog jumps up on the table when you are eating, and you smack him on the nose-- no-one calls you an animal hater! You are training the animal to act appropriately. Why the issue in the case of the sea lion? Most suggestions here are non-lethal to TRAIN the animal to find another source of food. Just my 2cents. -scott

05-18-2007, 09:29 AM	#13
Ed Fringe Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Drippin Chicken Water Ranch Posts: 140	So how many have you seen working or fishing?. You are deliberately evasive. You also blamed anglers again, and I'm not just talking about yakfishers but all anglers. There are a lot of ocean users and boat and property owners who don't like sea lions. Any biologist worth his salt knows that. There are also twisted individuals that just like to shoot things. You stated you've seen plenty of sea lions shot by some fisherman. A biologist should have a least some data to back up their rhetoric. You know, numbers, a bios stock and trade. What makes you so sure it was anglers? You can't even confirm how many you've seen. Sounds like you have an antifishing agenda. I suspect you are an emotional technician in training rather than a seasoned biologist. I can understand why you don't want to dig your hole any deeper.