Can You Carry a Concealed Weapon on a Kayak - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Dannowar · 12-14-2013, 01:34 AM

Lollipop crypts vs. the sewer bloods

alanw · 12-14-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannowar

Lollipop crypts vs. the sewer bloods

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire from the paddle-by shootings. I'll have to wear my Bulletproof Life Vest just to travel through the LJ hood.

ronbo613 · 12-14-2013, 12:39 PM

Just so you know, we have this same discussion regarding carrying a sidearm when riding mountain bikes out in the boonies. There are places where a bear or cougar encounter are a real possibility, but....
Most of these discussions occur when the weather turns bad, people spend too much time in the house and start scraping for things to talk about. They look a lot like this thread.

Dannowar · 12-14-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire from the paddle-by shootings. I'll have to wear my Bulletproof Life Vest just to travel through the LJ hood.

janines.fishtales@cox.net · 12-14-2013, 02:50 PM

California Penal Code 25400 PC makes it a crime to carry a concealed firearm on your person or in a vehicle.¹ This charge is separate and distinct from:

Penal Code 25850 PC, California's law against carrying a loaded firearm,² and
Penal Code 26350 PC, openly carrying an unloaded firearm in public.³
just stay in the bay like me

j

Cbad Mike · 12-14-2013, 09:35 PM

As someone who's armed more times than not I will tell you that I believe that it is against the law to carry a firearm on a kayak while fishing in California waters (LJ for example). Plus I know for a fact that it's illegal to fire a firearm within a certain distance from the shoreline. The distance that you would need to go to legally use a firearm on a boat is not one that would really be accessible by kayak.
I'm not telling anyone not to carry protection if they want but I will tell them to completely understand California's f***ed up gun laws if they do.
I personally live by the motto that it's better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6 but the fact is that if I felt fishing was so dangerous to warrant carrying a gun to do it I would simply not fish.

Fiskadoro · 12-15-2013, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbad Mike

As someone who's armed more times than not I will tell you that I believe that it is against the law to carry a firearm on a kayak while fishing in California waters (LJ for example). Plus I know for a fact that it's illegal to fire a firearm within a certain distance from the shoreline.

You raise some good points.

So.... I did some checking.

This is from Carrie Wilson at the DFG/DFW

Carrie Wilson, Associate Marine Biologist
primary contact for the Region 7 (Marine)
Carrie.Wilson@wildlife.ca.gov • (831) 649-7191

"There is a California Penal Code law that allows anglers to carry a gun while fishing and while hiking to and from their angling site. California Penal Code, section 12025 prohibits carrying concealed firearms in California, however, section 12027 provides the following exemption to this prohibition: “Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.”

That sounds to me like you can carry the weapon unloaded to your launch site and then have it loaded with you while fishing. Which is exactly what I've heard in the past.

Firing it is another matter. You can shoot it all you want once your three miles offshore as long as you do not fire it in a manner that endangers other people. Within three miles you could only fire it in a emergency situation. This only makes sense. You can have a loaded gun in your house but you can't walk out in your yard and discharge it without a damn good reason.

Siebler · 12-15-2013, 08:51 AM

Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters).

Now in addition there is obviously the issue of whistleblowers thinking they are doing right yet are being ignorant of the laws. So while it is legal to shoot as little as 150 yards off of Mission Beach it doesn't mean you are not going to end up with a huge headache over it. Both San Diego Sheriff and DFW deem over 150 yards a legal, reasonable distance from any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding inside of Unincoporated San Diego. (Section 33.101.B of the San Diego County Code of Regulatory Ordinances).

http://www.sdsheriff.net/documents/shooting_map.pdf

Mike, What tells you that you cannot carry within a certain distance of shore? There is no Map that I have ever seen saying you cant carry within a certain distance of shoreline or anything like that that I am aware of. It is all about Concealed Weapons Laws and your right to carry. The shoreline isn't a post office or a school so there should be zero issue if everything else checks out if you possess a CCW or you are using the Hunting/Fishing clause.

Now obviously If I am wrong i would love to know (and this is definitely possible). I haven't looked much into CCW stuff since I decided the run around with SD County was no longer worth it and gave up on they way they issue them. I will instead wait until i can leave this anti-firearm state to hold a CCW and in the meantime continue to use clauses such as the Place of Business and Hunting/Fishing to aid in carrying on my person.

Fiskadoro · 12-15-2013, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siebler

Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters).....

That makes perfect sense, Thanks for the clarification.

Cbad Mike · 12-15-2013, 09:31 PM

First off I am not an attorney. Second, I am done trying to interpret gun laws in California because they are exactly that.... Open to interpretation. I promise anyone who conceals a weapon in San Diego County (including on the water) without a concealed weapons permit that they are opening themselves up for a very expensive headache and or imprisonment. Now once again... I am pro gun and believe that we all have a right to protect ourselves and I really don't care if you illegally carry or not. What I am saying is that if you decide to carry while on your kayak whether legal or not (this law is definitely open to interpretation) you better be prepared.
I regularly open carried up until a couple of years ago when it became illegal. During that time I was routinely stopped by LEOs. Sometimes, when the LEO knew the law he would do a quick load check and I'd be on my way within 2 minutes. There were other times when the LEO did not know the law and I was stopped and held at gunpoint. At this time the open carry law was 40 years old and either the LEO didn't know it (Police do not have to know the law 100% but the public does) or the LEO interpreted the law differently. The open carry law clearly stated that it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm yet I was arrested once for illegally carrying a firearm because I did not have a magazine in my weapon which was deemed an incomplete firearm and therefore wasn't protected under the open carry law. Pretty stupid I think and I challenge anyone to find where that is written but I got handcuffed, locked up for 9 hours, and it cost me $4000 to fight the charge before it was dropped.
Anyway.... If your going to carry on a kayak based on laws that are poorly written be prepared for the worst and remember that ignorance is not a valid defense. Me personally, I do not think the potential legal issues are worth it based on the miniscule chance that I will be attacked by a shark. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself. LOL)
NOW.... if for some reason I felt the need to arm myself while on my kayak I would take a rifle or shotgun with me because they are considered UN concealable and the law that specifies that is based on physical length and there fore not open to interpretation.

PS. buy a bang stick!

Mike

12-14-2013, 01:34 AM	#1
Dannowar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,823	Lollipop crypts vs. the sewer bloods __________________ "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once and you’ll suck forever." — Brian Wilson

12-14-2013, 12:39 PM	#3
ronbo613 Waterman At Large Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On the Water Posts: 199	Just so you know, we have this same discussion regarding carrying a sidearm when riding mountain bikes out in the boonies. There are places where a bear or cougar encounter are a real possibility, but.... Most of these discussions occur when the weather turns bad, people spend too much time in the house and start scraping for things to talk about. They look a lot like this thread. __________________ Kayak Fishing Photos and Video

12-14-2013, 02:50 PM	#5
janines.fishtales@cox.net Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 555	Hmmm... what does the law say California Penal Code 25400 PC makes it a crime to carry a concealed firearm on your person or in a vehicle.¹ This charge is separate and distinct from: Penal Code 25850 PC, California's law against carrying a loaded firearm,² and Penal Code 26350 PC, openly carrying an unloaded firearm in public.³ just stay in the bay like me j __________________ Fishtales

12-14-2013, 09:35 PM	#6
Cbad Mike Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Carlsbad Ca. Posts: 1,206	As someone who's armed more times than not I will tell you that I believe that it is against the law to carry a firearm on a kayak while fishing in California waters (LJ for example). Plus I know for a fact that it's illegal to fire a firearm within a certain distance from the shoreline. The distance that you would need to go to legally use a firearm on a boat is not one that would really be accessible by kayak. I'm not telling anyone not to carry protection if they want but I will tell them to completely understand California's f***ed up gun laws if they do. I personally live by the motto that it's better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6 but the fact is that if I felt fishing was so dangerous to warrant carrying a gun to do it I would simply not fish. __________________ [SIGPIC]

12-15-2013, 08:51 AM	#8
Siebler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richland Oregon Posts: 1,547	Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters). Now in addition there is obviously the issue of whistleblowers thinking they are doing right yet are being ignorant of the laws. So while it is legal to shoot as little as 150 yards off of Mission Beach it doesn't mean you are not going to end up with a huge headache over it. Both San Diego Sheriff and DFW deem over 150 yards a legal, reasonable distance from any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding inside of Unincoporated San Diego. (Section 33.101.B of the San Diego County Code of Regulatory Ordinances). http://www.sdsheriff.net/documents/shooting_map.pdf Mike, What tells you that you cannot carry within a certain distance of shore? There is no Map that I have ever seen saying you cant carry within a certain distance of shoreline or anything like that that I am aware of. It is all about Concealed Weapons Laws and your right to carry. The shoreline isn't a post office or a school so there should be zero issue if everything else checks out if you possess a CCW or you are using the Hunting/Fishing clause. Now obviously If I am wrong i would love to know (and this is definitely possible). I haven't looked much into CCW stuff since I decided the run around with SD County was no longer worth it and gave up on they way they issue them. I will instead wait until i can leave this anti-firearm state to hold a CCW and in the meantime continue to use clauses such as the Place of Business and Hunting/Fishing to aid in carrying on my person. __________________ CJ Siebler Last edited by Siebler; 12-15-2013 at 09:03 AM.

12-15-2013, 09:31 PM	#10
Cbad Mike Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Carlsbad Ca. Posts: 1,206	First off I am not an attorney. Second, I am done trying to interpret gun laws in California because they are exactly that.... Open to interpretation. I promise anyone who conceals a weapon in San Diego County (including on the water) without a concealed weapons permit that they are opening themselves up for a very expensive headache and or imprisonment. Now once again... I am pro gun and believe that we all have a right to protect ourselves and I really don't care if you illegally carry or not. What I am saying is that if you decide to carry while on your kayak whether legal or not (this law is definitely open to interpretation) you better be prepared. I regularly open carried up until a couple of years ago when it became illegal. During that time I was routinely stopped by LEOs. Sometimes, when the LEO knew the law he would do a quick load check and I'd be on my way within 2 minutes. There were other times when the LEO did not know the law and I was stopped and held at gunpoint. At this time the open carry law was 40 years old and either the LEO didn't know it (Police do not have to know the law 100% but the public does) or the LEO interpreted the law differently. The open carry law clearly stated that it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm yet I was arrested once for illegally carrying a firearm because I did not have a magazine in my weapon which was deemed an incomplete firearm and therefore wasn't protected under the open carry law. Pretty stupid I think and I challenge anyone to find where that is written but I got handcuffed, locked up for 9 hours, and it cost me $4000 to fight the charge before it was dropped. Anyway.... If your going to carry on a kayak based on laws that are poorly written be prepared for the worst and remember that ignorance is not a valid defense. Me personally, I do not think the potential legal issues are worth it based on the miniscule chance that I will be attacked by a shark. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself. LOL) NOW.... if for some reason I felt the need to arm myself while on my kayak I would take a rifle or shotgun with me because they are considered UN concealable and the law that specifies that is based on physical length and there fore not open to interpretation. PS. buy a bang stick! Mike __________________ [SIGPIC]