Skunked - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Geno Machino · 03-25-2016, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw

I read an article not too long ago where a captain gave up on the dropper loop and instead uses a spider hitch or bimini twist to create a big loop, then cuts the loop 1/3 of the way to end up with a long end and a short end which can then be made into either a dropper or a reverse dropper depending on which end he ties the hook and sinker to.

I all ways use a spider hitch for my dropper loops, unless I'm fishing straight rockfish.
The old dropper loop knot will fail every time on big fish...learned that years ago - the hard way.

Geno

theluckypig · 03-25-2016, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geno Machino

I all ways use a spider hitch for my dropper loops
Geno

ditto

Fish Taco · 03-26-2016, 12:38 PM

I know there's a bunch of different braid to mono knots out there, but I was taught this one by Alberto Knie when I lived in New York a few years ago... yes, this is his knot and he developed it many years ago. It tightens on itself like one of those Chinese Finger traps we used to play with as a kid... has never failed me yet... a great knot. Google it and you'll see a video of him showing how to tie it... "Crazy" Alberto is known famously on the East Coast and has the respect of many fisherman around the world... he knows his sh*t...

- Ken

govomit · 03-26-2016, 01:47 PM

This is the same knot Fishin"Boobs"Phil linked to above, and AKA "RP knot" mentioned as well. Only difference is the number of twists - 5x vs 7x. Amazing how this thing works! Did couple of tests and the leader breaks below, not at the knot. It's hardly a "knot" in the first place... I'd call it a great "solution".

FullFlavorPike · 03-27-2016, 07:18 AM

I had to break a jig off the other day. The rig was 40# mono - blood knot - 40# seaguar - SD jam knot. On my Sealine 50, I had to crank the drag down to max, thumb the spool, and lean into it with EVERYTHING I have to snap that line at the blood knot. Now, a dropper loop is virtually identical to a blood knot, and should affect line strength similarly, at least when tied correctly.

I think part of this problem with fishing the dropper loop, or any type of loop knot, is that everybody is using braid. Doesn't stretch so it's really easy to break the knot since the shock absorbing qualities of the mono aren't present. Working the drag perfectly becomes paramount, and I think that for me and other relative noobs who are losing fish, running slightly less drag than conventional wisdom dictates is key. I have my TLD15 set up for about 14-15# of max drag right now on a reverse dropper tied into 50# mono. That's a shitload of fighting power, and realisitically a lot MORE power than it would be with 15# of drag in a mono to fluoro setup, because there's no stretch. Theoretically, it's impossible to break the knots on my rig by just pulling on the end. They're able to withstand 20+ pounds of force, but if a fish makes a sudden run, there's a great deal of momentary stress on the knot, and it can still break.

The point of all this is that I don't think the knots are to blame. At least in my case, there's a nut loose behind the crank

But in general, I suspect that "it's not the knots, it's how you fish them" is good to keep in mind. Setting up your lever drags with a scale beforehand, and knowing how far you can go with your star drags; not to mention perhaps knowing when to back the drag off just a little bit in anticipation of a big run, is going to land more fish than tying a better knot. They are ALL good knots, vetted by hundreds of great fishermen and with plenty of trophy fish to their credit.

03-26-2016, 12:38 PM	#3
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bozeman, Montana Posts: 164	I know there's a bunch of different braid to mono knots out there, but I was taught this one by Alberto Knie when I lived in New York a few years ago... yes, this is his knot and he developed it many years ago. It tightens on itself like one of those Chinese Finger traps we used to play with as a kid... has never failed me yet... a great knot. Google it and you'll see a video of him showing how to tie it... "Crazy" Alberto is known famously on the East Coast and has the respect of many fisherman around the world... he knows his sht... - Ken __________________ - Ken Redondo Beach, CA* 2011 Malibu Stealth 14

03-26-2016, 01:47 PM	#4
govomit Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 77	This is the same knot Fishin"Boobs"Phil linked to above, and AKA "RP knot" mentioned as well. Only difference is the number of twists - 5x vs 7x. Amazing how this thing works! Did couple of tests and the leader breaks below, not at the knot. It's hardly a "knot" in the first place... I'd call it a great "solution". Last edited by govomit; 03-26-2016 at 01:54 PM.

03-27-2016, 07:18 AM	#5
FullFlavorPike Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 810	I had to break a jig off the other day. The rig was 40# mono - blood knot - 40# seaguar - SD jam knot. On my Sealine 50, I had to crank the drag down to max, thumb the spool, and lean into it with EVERYTHING I have to snap that line at the blood knot. Now, a dropper loop is virtually identical to a blood knot, and should affect line strength similarly, at least when tied correctly. I think part of this problem with fishing the dropper loop, or any type of loop knot, is that everybody is using braid. Doesn't stretch so it's really easy to break the knot since the shock absorbing qualities of the mono aren't present. Working the drag perfectly becomes paramount, and I think that for me and other relative noobs who are losing fish, running slightly less drag than conventional wisdom dictates is key. I have my TLD15 set up for about 14-15# of max drag right now on a reverse dropper tied into 50# mono. That's a shitload of fighting power, and realisitically a lot MORE power than it would be with 15# of drag in a mono to fluoro setup, because there's no stretch. Theoretically, it's impossible to break the knots on my rig by just pulling on the end. They're able to withstand 20+ pounds of force, but if a fish makes a sudden run, there's a great deal of momentary stress on the knot, and it can still break. The point of all this is that I don't think the knots are to blame. At least in my case, there's a nut loose behind the crank But in general, I suspect that "it's not the knots, it's how you fish them" is good to keep in mind. Setting up your lever drags with a scale beforehand, and knowing how far you can go with your star drags; not to mention perhaps knowing when to back the drag off just a little bit in anticipation of a big run, is going to land more fish than tying a better knot. They are ALL good knots, vetted by hundreds of great fishermen and with plenty of trophy fish to their credit.