Trying to learn more about Rod and Reel setups

[Mahigeer]

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...
With all due respect I disagree.
Having used both lengths for many years. Caught many bait and when done simply unattached the top section while leaving the rig inside and transported in a trunk.

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
Flex and sensitivity are not needed to catch bait. They hook themselves.

2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
With attachment of a snap swivel to the main line, one can change rigs if needed in emergency. However, the beauty of the rod is to house the Sabiki rig easily, quickly and safely once done catching bait.

3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
A heavy test line, piano wire, flatten small split sinker and/or a large paper clip can help in re-threading the new line.

4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside
There is a limit on how big of a hook to use. Size 6 or 8 are best for bait fishing. There is also a limit on the length, but removing one or two hooks does not affect the functionality of bait rigs.

When it comes to fishing gear there are many choices, because there are many personal preferences by anglers.

My recommendation is due to firsthand experience.

I have no affiliation with Ahi or sellers.

[alanw]

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

[YakDout]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

[alanw]

Originally Posted by YakDout

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

Yea, good question. I always use at least 4oz weights to avoid the dreaded mackerel ball of sabiki death, so the tension on the hook along with the barb works well to keep it in place. But, after many months I finally lost one when the weight hit the sand and the sabiki just came unhooked - glad I always de-barb them before use. I have since then always run the hook through both eyes of the swivel and have never lost another.

[jorluivil]

It's rare that I carry more than 3 rods on my fishing trips. If you play your cards right and pick a rod and reel that will do the job 99.999% of the time there really is no reason to have an arsenal of 20-30 setups.Don't get caught up in the hype with the 2-speed reels and the 8-rods that are great for casting, chances are that you'll rarely need or use either one, instead get something that fits you, your style of fishing and your kayak.

My 'go-to' rods are both 7' Teramar rods and until recently both rods were outfitted with Shimano Cardiff 400 reels, this is a bait casting reel but I was using them when I would fish for YT, Halibut and WSB. Now, one rod is outfitted with an Avet SX and the other with an SXJ.

As far as sabiki rods go, save yourself some money and use one of the smaller rods that you have sitting around or buy something inexpensive and use one of the reels that is sitting in your garage(conventional or spinning). My Sabiki rod is a 5 or 6 foot ugly stick rod with one of my older Cardiff reels attached to it. Place a rolling swivel hook snap between your sabiki and your main line and you'll be able to change from a sabiki line to a squid catcher in no time.

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by YakDout

I tend to fish for yellowtail with gear that most people would use calico bass fishing. But I like to stay on the lighter side of the spectrum for gear. I landed a 44lb mossback last march on a rod rated 10-20 with no problems. Also this past october landed 2-3 roosterfish over 35lbs with a lexa 300 and a different 10-20lb rod. Different strokes for different folks, but I like to feel the fishes..

That's actually exactly how I like to fish for bass. The only time I'd ever be outgunned is if I hooked up in deep tulies and couldnt wind them out fast enough. I may be sending you a PM here tonight...

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

That's brilliant!

[YakDout]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

[DPevin]

Originally Posted by YakDout

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

The first time I read his post I imagined a clasp like at the bottom of the sabiki rig for the weight, but put on top the swivel and then snapped to the eye of the hook. But after reading his post again, it does sound like he is just putting the hook through the eye of the swivel....interesting.

I guess my two bits to the whole thread would be to find reels that have a reputation for being durable. And clean them properly after every trip. Being on the kayak so close to the water, and increased chances of reels taking a dip real fast every now and then/water splashing on them...everything just gets beat up more by the salt.

Used rods are a great cheap option, and as its already been said, you can find smoking deals if you just creep the forums and have the cash ready and jump on an opportunity.

My budget has been pretty limited so I have gone the route of used reels. I would highly recommend buying your reels new. The used reels I have bought have been more of a headache than anything. It's just nicer to have confidence in your reels when they are brand new and you know they will work properly. Again, as already stated you don't have to get crazy. There are some great durable reels out there for fair prices that cover all our kayak needs.

[FullFlavorPike]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

I don't even bring a sabiki rod. I just sprinkle some chum in the water and slap those little fools into the bait tank like a grizzly bear.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by Mahigeer

With all due respect I disagree.
Having used both lengths for many years. Caught many bait and when done simply unattached the top section while leaving the rig inside and transported in a trunk.

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
Flex and sensitivity are not needed to catch bait. They hook themselves.

2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
With attachment of a snap swivel to the main line, one can change rigs if needed in emergency. However, the beauty of the rod is to house the Sabiki rig easily, quickly and safely once done catching bait.

3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
A heavy test line, piano wire, flatten small split sinker and/or a large paper clip can help in re-threading the new line.

4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside
There is a limit on how big of a hook to use. Size 6 or 8 are best for bait fishing. There is also a limit on the length, but removing one or two hooks does not affect the functionality of bait rigs.

When it comes to fishing gear there are many choices, because there are many personal preferences by anglers.

My recommendation is due to firsthand experience.

I have no affiliation with Ahi or sellers.

True, true. All these points are valid, but i will counter the first point about sensitivity not mattering when fishing for bait. There are many times when bait is so scarce, you might only get one or two swipes at the greenbacks. The flex in the rod is crucial, because the big greeny will swim upward and if you don't have a bend in your rod, the mackerel gets slack line which it can easily shake the hook, and usually shake off any other baits on the line. Not a huge problem if you wind fast and fish straight mono.

I would be delighted to see a post of some who landed a yt on a biki rod. Its happened to me many times when for whatever reason 1 or 2 of my rigs get completely fusterclucked, and my sibiki rod quickly becomes a dropperloop or flyline which then catches a fish.

As you said, its totally a matter of preference. The "unshielded" sibiki can definitely be a pain in the butt at times.

[Mahigeer]

I use braid only on my Bait stick to have a better feel of the hit.

It has been my experience that once a mackerel is caught, you have two options. One to reel quickly and land one or two fish, or leave it and catch more.

However, hooking more mackerel increases the chances of tangles. I use about 3-4 OZ. sinker on my rig. It allows me to cast far from the piers.

Casting far is not needed from a kayak.

I have heard of using a heavier sinker like one pound can reduce the tangling, but I have never tried it.

The fouling of the Sabiki rig can happen with any rod anyhow.

I ordered my first 8' rod on line. When I received it, I felt that I would be laughed out of the piers. Thus, I sent it back and bought a 7' at the FHS.

Later I did buy a 8' at FHS and that rod allowed me to cast farther from the pier. I will use the 7' from my kayak.

The low profile casting reel allows a less sever angle from the reel to the hole in the rod where the line enters. Thus, for a better cast.

[Hunters Pa]

Disclaimer: I have worked the Fred Hall shows for Ahi/Promar for a couple years now


I started using the dedicated sabiki stck before my affiliation. I like being able to grab it and deploy a bait catcher within seconds if I see or meter bait. Especially important when bait is scarce. Yes, they are less sensitive and less flex. I use an old shimano Catala with 30# mono. Also, I like to use a heavy jig on the bottom because you never know what will be attracted to a couple baitfish in distress

To each their own. I have done the swivel-on-a-hook approach and it works. But you still need to roll up and stow the rig, then unroll, detangle and attach. Not usually a problem, but with cold hands that are not as nimble as they were 30 years ago I find that in the time it takes me to deploy in any other manner, I can already have a couple baits caught and in the tank with the dedicated stick.

Only one way you will determine if it is for you, and that is to try one out. I live in Fullerton, work in Huntington Beach, and you are welcome to borrow mine for one of your next outings if you want

[taggermike]

You asked about light vs heavy irons.
So Cal style heavy iron fishing is also called yoyo iron. They're usually made of brass and wieght 4-10 oz. You drop the iron down on meter marks. Usually you let the jig hit the bottom then wind it up as fast as you can. Pretty simple. You can cast them and fish them other ways too. Since little or no casting is needed a heavy action 6-7' rod is the way to go.

Surface iron is much different. The irons are made of aluminum and wiegh 2-5 oz. These irons are used when fish are feeding on or near the surface. When fish or working birds are seen you cast the light irons in to the area. Often long casts are need so the rods are usually 8-10' long. From a yak you can use shorter rods and even spinning reels to make the long casts. Mike

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by taggermike

You asked about light vs heavy irons.
So Cal style heavy iron fishing is also called yoyo iron. They're usually made of brass and wieght 4-10 oz. You drop the iron down on meter marks. Usually you let the jig hit the bottom then wind it up as fast as you can. Pretty simple. You can cast them and fish them other ways too. Since little or no casting is needed a heavy action 6-7' rod is the way to go.

Surface iron is much different. The irons are made of aluminum and wiegh 2-5 oz. These irons are used when fish are feeding on or near the surface. When fish or working birds are seen you cast the light irons in to the area. Often long casts are need so the rods are usually 8-10' long. From a yak you can use shorter rods and even spinning reels to make the long casts. Mike

Awesome explanation, thanks Mike!!