Permanent Wet Transducer Installation - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

THE CALI HOOKUP! · 01-17-2010, 01:30 AM

what are the benifits of haveing a wet mount transducer also what are the draw backs.

dsafety · 01-17-2010, 07:02 AM

Cali,

Others might be able to answer this question better than I but the main reason I went this route was that when I pulled up my old transducer I found that the goop that had attached it to the hull was full of bubbles. I was never very happy with the performance of my previous FF and have been told that it is important that no bubbles form in the goop as they are likely to cause poor performance.

I have also learned that the most efficient transmitter of sonar signals is water and that for best performance a transducer should be mounted in the water. For some strange reason the hull of a boat does not seem to cause any transmission problems so mounting the transducer in a pool of water inside the hull works very well. This is probably because the density of the hull is fairly close to the density of water.

Anyway, many of the guys who really know what they are doing have gone to the "wet mount" over goop. The problem with the installation method that most have employed up to now is that with the foam version of the wet mount, the water can leak away causing the transducer to perform poorly. I have seen guys on the water having to open their hatch from time to time to add water to the foam well. I wanted to avoid having to worry about this.

My version solves the leakage problem as the whole unit is sealed so the water cannot leak or evaporate. As a bonus, since the transducer is mounted in the rubber cap, it is easily portable to another location making it possible for one FF to be used on multiple boats.

Give it a try. The installation is easy and the materials cost only a few dollars.

Bob

T-Rex · 01-17-2010, 05:57 PM

Looks like a great setup! I've always preferred my wet mount over goop, but filling up the reservoir (or as crabkracker said, forgetting to) is a pain. I haven't had any leaks, but I noticed after about 2 years the pool noodle foam is degrading a little bit and the transducer slips out when I'm driving with the yak upside down. This setup should fix both those problems. This install is going to be my project for tomorrow! Thanks for the info!

WahooUSMA · 01-17-2010, 06:55 PM

Bob,

I just finished my install of the wet transducer (copied yours). Unfortunately, with the Lowrance transducer, you need to use the ABS 4in male adapter vs. 3in adapter. This sucks because one; its quiet a bit larger, and secondly, the 3 in. cap is flexible while the 4in cap is rigid...(sounds kind of West Hollywood-ish).

My only issue is going to be removing the cap to check for water levels. I am afraid I might eventually separate the ABS adapter from the hull since the cap is so rigid and difficult to remove. Also, last question. Did you sanitize the GOOP in the interior of the adapter (seepage) or do you think it matters? I am guessing with all glue and adhesives, as they dry air bubbles appear......what do ya think???

Anyway, thanks for you expertise!

dgax65 · 01-17-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WahooUSMA

Bob,

I just finished my install of the wet transducer (copied yours). Unfortunately, with the Lowrance transducer, you need to use the ABS 4in male adapter vs. 3in adapter. This sucks because one; its quiet a bit larger, and secondly, the 3 in. cap is flexible while the 4in cap is rigid...(sounds kind of West Hollywood-ish).

My only issue is going to be removing the cap to check for water levels. I am afraid I might eventually separate the ABS adapter from the hull since the cap is so rigid and difficult to remove. Also, last question. Did you sanitize the GOOP in the interior of the adapter (seepage) or do you think it matters? I am guessing with all glue and adhesives, as they dry air bubbles appear......what do ya think???

Anyway, thanks for you expertise!

You could make a small inspection hole in the cap and seal it with a rubber plug. That would allow you to clamp down the cap and never have to worry about removing it.

WahooUSMA · 01-18-2010, 06:34 PM

Thanks...I think I might give the inspection plug a shot.....Any recommendations on how to clean the GOOP of my transducer? What a royal pain in the ass......I am tempted to just go buy another one!

robmandel · 01-18-2010, 06:52 PM

that is slicker than shit. I have the scupper transducer in my trident, but have two other kayaks where that would totally be perfect. and the portable part of it is way cool. yes, there is a better mousetrap

Hunter (The 80's Man) · 02-20-2010, 02:18 PM

Hey Bob (or anybody else that has tried this application) ,

So I did both my Trident and my wife's Tarpon. I finished the install, everything looked great. Both held water with no leaks, UNTIL I went to load my Trident on the truck. I was strapping it down when I heard a "glug-glug-glug" ... all the water was coming out. When my boat flexed, it compromised the goop. I since went back to my wife's boat and put a little side-to-side pressure on the pvc and hers lifted from the bottom as well. I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Any ideas??

How do I get around this problem?

Thanks,
Rob

steveooo · 02-20-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter (The 80's Man)

I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Rob

Winner winner chicken dinner

dsafety · 02-20-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter (The 80's Man)

Hey Bob (or anybody else that has tried this application) ,

So I did both my Trident and my wife's Tarpon. I finished the install, everything looked great. Both held water with no leaks, UNTIL I went to load my Trident on the truck. I was strapping it down when I heard a "glug-glug-glug" ... all the water was coming out. When my boat flexed, it compromised the goop. I since went back to my wife's boat and put a little side-to-side pressure on the pvc and hers lifted from the bottom as well. I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application.

Any ideas??

How do I get around this problem?

Thanks,
Rob

Most kayak surfaces retain a little silicon, which is used as a mold release agent. Goop sticks very well to most clean surfaces so need to give the area you plan to apply the Goop to a good cleaning first. Alcohol works great. So does a light sanding of the area. You can do both.

If you properly prepare the area, Goop will stick so well that it is nearly impossible to remove.

Bob

h2ofishfo · 02-21-2010, 10:20 AM

my question is if u set the transducer to high in the water do u inturn reduce the size of the sonar ping due to the constriction of the tubing it sits in hmmmm???

dgax65 · 02-21-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2ofishfo

my question is if u set the transducer to high in the water do u inturn reduce the size of the sonar ping due to the constriction of the tubing it sits in hmmmm???

A side imaging or wide angle transducer probably won't work well in a wet well, but they don't work well for any in-hull application. The dual frequency transducers have a narrow and a wide cone angle. Even at a 60 degree cone angle, the transducer would have to be pretty far off the bottom of the yak to lose performance. The narrow cone would probably work in any conceivable kayak wet mount. Whatever return you would lose will be from the outer part of the cone. You should still get decent, if somewhat attenuated return.

jorluivil · 05-03-2010, 05:29 PM

Pardon my ignorance but what is the purpose of a 'wet mount transducer'? Will it not work if it's somehow fastened to the hull of a yak without any goop? I'm asking because rather than having to install and remove the ducer each time I go out I want to permanently mount the ducer for my Humminbird 323. Again, not trying to be a dumbsh*t I just need to know before I go and make any installations

WahooUSMA · 05-03-2010, 05:51 PM

I gave up on the wet transducer due to leakage and went back to the original goop method. This time, I installed the unit under my Revo seat area. Actually, the resolution is the same between the wet method and conventional. No difference. Just a lot less work.

dsafety · 05-03-2010, 07:28 PM

jorluivil, there has been a lot of discussion about mounting transducers in this forum. Search the archives and you will find just about everything there is on the subject.

As for the wet mount vs goop, many of us have found that the performance of a goop mount quickly degrades as the goop gets milky or forms bubbles. The wet mount just uses water as the transmission medium. It works great, as long as you can keep your wet well full of water.

Wahoo and others have found that it can be difficult to attach a wet well to the kayak and get the attachment to hold over a long period of time. I had mine come unglued after a particularly tough launch attempt.

Some people have recently had success with just attaching their transducer to the hull with straps in the lowest point in the kayak. They then purposely add enough water to make sure the transducer is sitting a a little pool of water. Apparently it does not take much. I do not have first hand experience with this method but it sounds interesting.

I do have some experience with the permanent wet well option and can tell you that if you can get a good seal between the well and the hull, the method works great. It is one of the more popular setups these days but plenty of people are doing just fine with other options.

Bob

dtownfan · 05-03-2010, 08:18 PM

i don't take mine out each time. 3 to 4 twists of the hose clamp and the cap slides on and off if needed.

another reason i went this way first is that i would not have to peel goop or epoxy off my ducer if the installation was poor. i would have had to use a ton of goop to make a tranny fit in the sharp "V" portion of my yak. the other areas off to the sides didn't look like good options to me either as they raise up quite high and are also agressively rounded. if you ever flip one over you will see what i am taking about real quick.

someday i will use a thru-hull set up but my 135 ride doesn't have the right hull shape for it. to many contours and no real flat"ish" areas. the 2010, 135 ride has a pontoon style hull.

some of us love to tinker and making things and trying out ideas is considered a good time (not a waste of time or a pain). i grew up on a farm and was taught how to use all kinds of tools at a young age. this kinda of work is fun, cheap, and well..............just plain interesting to me. i took some tips, asked a bunch of questions, and had a blast putting it together.

i have seen many methods.......many work great and to compare you would really have to try them to see. i love my 3m 5200 sealant wet mount for now.

dick fabulous · 05-03-2010, 08:37 PM

Most sonar manufacturers offer an accessory 'shoot thru puck' that is considerably more compact than using pipe and whatever else you may pimp your yak the crafty cheap way. You can win an Indy car race with a coffee table if you spend enough money modifying it.

rayak · 05-03-2010, 08:45 PM

Couldn't agree more dtown. I love a good tinker, and really enjoyed putting this together. (I couldn't find 3M, so used a marine grade silicone of some sort, forget the name but it said it had a high bond strength and was for marine applications)

I believe a lot of goop installations work very well, and there all good tips sapdawg but from the little I've read, I believe that some silicones actually form bubbles as they cure, so you it doesn't matter how much care you take to lay it all down. This may not be true for the silicones a lot of people use but I have read that Goop is one of those that will form bubbles during the curing process.

Freshwater maybe of a slightly different density to saltwater but there is no reason why you can't fill it with saltwater from your local fishing hole. So whether the goop interferes with the signal or not, I see this wet mount as having one less ingredient. Whether that helps much or not, who really knows, but it can't be a bad thing.

I also like the fact that it's removable. I ended up with a spare piece of acrylic after my install so should the boss let me get a second yak i'd be able to switch the unit between the two easily.

Lastly, I like the protection it offers the tranny from bumps. Not that there is any reason why you couldn't put a guard around a goop install.

I think largely but, goop installs are tried and true. They obviously work, so I'm not bagging them out, but just thought this install looked neat and wanted to have a crack.

Thanks all.

01-17-2010, 06:55 PM	#4
WahooUSMA Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 753	Wet Trans... Bob, I just finished my install of the wet transducer (copied yours). Unfortunately, with the Lowrance transducer, you need to use the ABS 4in male adapter vs. 3in adapter. This sucks because one; its quiet a bit larger, and secondly, the 3 in. cap is flexible while the 4in cap is rigid...(sounds kind of West Hollywood-ish). My only issue is going to be removing the cap to check for water levels. I am afraid I might eventually separate the ABS adapter from the hull since the cap is so rigid and difficult to remove. Also, last question. Did you sanitize the GOOP in the interior of the adapter (seepage) or do you think it matters? I am guessing with all glue and adhesives, as they dry air bubbles appear......what do ya think??? Anyway, thanks for you expertise! __________________ GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! Bad decisions make great stories!

01-18-2010, 06:34 PM	#6
WahooUSMA Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 753	Thanks...I think I might give the inspection plug a shot.....Any recommendations on how to clean the GOOP of my transducer? What a royal pain in the ass......I am tempted to just go buy another one! __________________ GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! Bad decisions make great stories!

02-20-2010, 02:18 PM	#8
Hunter (The 80's Man) Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Riverside Posts: 243	Hey Bob (or anybody else that has tried this application) , So I did both my Trident and my wife's Tarpon. I finished the install, everything looked great. Both held water with no leaks, UNTIL I went to load my Trident on the truck. I was strapping it down when I heard a "glug-glug-glug" ... all the water was coming out. When my boat flexed, it compromised the goop. I since went back to my wife's boat and put a little side-to-side pressure on the pvc and hers lifted from the bottom as well. I'm thinking I need to rough up the bottom before the goop application. Any ideas?? How do I get around this problem? Thanks, Rob __________________ What's in YOUR hatch?

05-03-2010, 05:51 PM	#14
WahooUSMA Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 753	Gave up on the Wet Transducer I gave up on the wet transducer due to leakage and went back to the original goop method. This time, I installed the unit under my Revo seat area. Actually, the resolution is the same between the wet method and conventional. No difference. Just a lot less work. __________________ GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! Bad decisions make great stories!

05-03-2010, 08:37 PM	#17
dick fabulous Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	Futile ? Most sonar manufacturers offer an accessory 'shoot thru puck' that is considerably more compact than using pipe and whatever else you may pimp your yak the crafty cheap way. You can win an Indy car race with a coffee table if you spend enough money modifying it.

01-17-2010, 01:30 AM	#1
THE CALI HOOKUP! Junior Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17	what are the benifits of haveing a wet mount transducer also what are the draw backs.

01-17-2010, 07:02 AM	#2
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,122	Cali, Others might be able to answer this question better than I but the main reason I went this route was that when I pulled up my old transducer I found that the goop that had attached it to the hull was full of bubbles. I was never very happy with the performance of my previous FF and have been told that it is important that no bubbles form in the goop as they are likely to cause poor performance. I have also learned that the most efficient transmitter of sonar signals is water and that for best performance a transducer should be mounted in the water. For some strange reason the hull of a boat does not seem to cause any transmission problems so mounting the transducer in a pool of water inside the hull works very well. This is probably because the density of the hull is fairly close to the density of water. Anyway, many of the guys who really know what they are doing have gone to the "wet mount" over goop. The problem with the installation method that most have employed up to now is that with the foam version of the wet mount, the water can leak away causing the transducer to perform poorly. I have seen guys on the water having to open their hatch from time to time to add water to the foam well. I wanted to avoid having to worry about this. My version solves the leakage problem as the whole unit is sealed so the water cannot leak or evaporate. As a bonus, since the transducer is mounted in the rubber cap, it is easily portable to another location making it possible for one FF to be used on multiple boats. Give it a try. The installation is easy and the materials cost only a few dollars. Bob

01-17-2010, 05:57 PM	#3
T-Rex Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 770	Looks like a great setup! I've always preferred my wet mount over goop, but filling up the reservoir (or as crabkracker said, forgetting to) is a pain. I haven't had any leaks, but I noticed after about 2 years the pool noodle foam is degrading a little bit and the transducer slips out when I'm driving with the yak upside down. This setup should fix both those problems. This install is going to be my project for tomorrow! Thanks for the info!

01-18-2010, 06:52 PM	#7
robmandel Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 186	that is slicker than shit. I have the scupper transducer in my trident, but have two other kayaks where that would totally be perfect. and the portable part of it is way cool. yes, there is a better mousetrap

02-21-2010, 10:20 AM	#11
h2ofishfo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santee Posts: 821	my question is if u set the transducer to high in the water do u inturn reduce the size of the sonar ping due to the constriction of the tubing it sits in hmmmm???

05-03-2010, 05:29 PM	#13
jorluivil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,856	Pardon my ignorance but what is the purpose of a 'wet mount transducer'? Will it not work if it's somehow fastened to the hull of a yak without any goop? I'm asking because rather than having to install and remove the ducer each time I go out I want to permanently mount the ducer for my Humminbird 323. Again, not trying to be a dumbsh*t I just need to know before I go and make any installations

05-03-2010, 07:28 PM	#15
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,122	jorluivil, there has been a lot of discussion about mounting transducers in this forum. Search the archives and you will find just about everything there is on the subject. As for the wet mount vs goop, many of us have found that the performance of a goop mount quickly degrades as the goop gets milky or forms bubbles. The wet mount just uses water as the transmission medium. It works great, as long as you can keep your wet well full of water. Wahoo and others have found that it can be difficult to attach a wet well to the kayak and get the attachment to hold over a long period of time. I had mine come unglued after a particularly tough launch attempt. Some people have recently had success with just attaching their transducer to the hull with straps in the lowest point in the kayak. They then purposely add enough water to make sure the transducer is sitting a a little pool of water. Apparently it does not take much. I do not have first hand experience with this method but it sounds interesting. I do have some experience with the permanent wet well option and can tell you that if you can get a good seal between the well and the hull, the method works great. It is one of the more popular setups these days but plenty of people are doing just fine with other options. Bob

05-03-2010, 08:18 PM	#16
dtownfan Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 50	i don't take mine out each time. 3 to 4 twists of the hose clamp and the cap slides on and off if needed. another reason i went this way first is that i would not have to peel goop or epoxy off my ducer if the installation was poor. i would have had to use a ton of goop to make a tranny fit in the sharp "V" portion of my yak. the other areas off to the sides didn't look like good options to me either as they raise up quite high and are also agressively rounded. if you ever flip one over you will see what i am taking about real quick. someday i will use a thru-hull set up but my 135 ride doesn't have the right hull shape for it. to many contours and no real flat"ish" areas. the 2010, 135 ride has a pontoon style hull. some of us love to tinker and making things and trying out ideas is considered a good time (not a waste of time or a pain). i grew up on a farm and was taught how to use all kinds of tools at a young age. this kinda of work is fun, cheap, and well..............just plain interesting to me. i took some tips, asked a bunch of questions, and had a blast putting it together. i have seen many methods.......many work great and to compare you would really have to try them to see. i love my 3m 5200 sealant wet mount for now.

05-03-2010, 08:45 PM	#18
rayak Junior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 5	Couldn't agree more dtown. I love a good tinker, and really enjoyed putting this together. (I couldn't find 3M, so used a marine grade silicone of some sort, forget the name but it said it had a high bond strength and was for marine applications) I believe a lot of goop installations work very well, and there all good tips sapdawg but from the little I've read, I believe that some silicones actually form bubbles as they cure, so you it doesn't matter how much care you take to lay it all down. This may not be true for the silicones a lot of people use but I have read that Goop is one of those that will form bubbles during the curing process. Freshwater maybe of a slightly different density to saltwater but there is no reason why you can't fill it with saltwater from your local fishing hole. So whether the goop interferes with the signal or not, I see this wet mount as having one less ingredient. Whether that helps much or not, who really knows, but it can't be a bad thing. I also like the fact that it's removable. I ended up with a spare piece of acrylic after my install so should the boss let me get a second yak i'd be able to switch the unit between the two easily. Lastly, I like the protection it offers the tranny from bumps. Not that there is any reason why you couldn't put a guard around a goop install. I think largely but, goop installs are tried and true. They obviously work, so I'm not bagging them out, but just thought this install looked neat and wanted to have a crack. Thanks all.