Electric Bilge Pump - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

wiseguy · 04-27-2010, 06:16 AM

Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer!

http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

ful-rac · 04-27-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy

Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer!

http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

No, the pump does not have a built in check valve. Read it again. You must install a check valve, or else you risk taking on water thru the fitting! Don't skip the check valve! You need it.

wiseguy · 04-27-2010, 03:13 PM

you are absolutely right! I read it wrong. This is the part number it calls for. Kind of big in my opinion, I like the one you used much better.

http://www.jmsonline.net/inline-non-...-valve-3-4.htm

ful-rac · 04-27-2010, 03:25 PM

It's actually the right part the LV1219 the 3/4", but the wrong picture, the picture is of the LV1215 the 1 1/2 " model.

kareem korn · 04-27-2010, 05:13 PM

I'd also shove a rubber stopper in that thru hull when not using the bildge. Nothings fail proof.

Aaron · 04-27-2010, 07:19 PM

Hello,

my first post on this site. I've been lurking for years, just signed up a few weeks back and decided to post on this subject as this is a project that I have in the works right now...

A few things to note about emergencies...First, they are often unexpected and incredibly fast. This is pretty obvious but seems to be forgotten with a few things that I've read. I think a bilge pump on a kayak is a great idea. I think that it is a MANDATORY accessory for anyone that is using a drop-in bait tank, a kayatank, or any thru-hull type pump. The real and obvious risk that you run with using these things is that they can be leaking and you wouldn't even know it. I've been out with 2 separate people now that came dangerously close to sinking their kayak due to a leaking bladder that they had no idea was leaking. That being said, switches, plugs in the outlet, etc. etc. are all means of crippling your safety device.

The automatic bilge pumps that they have now are GOOD. These are not your old "connect your bilge to a separate float so that your system is the size of a small army" style pumps. They are compact. They turn on only when there are a few inches of water in the boat. They have an internal check valve. And they even come apart for easy cleaning. Water starts to fill the boat and you don't know about it, the pump turns on, you'll hear it, water gets pumped out AND you can investigate. I don't know why you would go any other route.

By adding a manual switch into that system, you are adding a significant weak point. Switches have consistently been the weak point in the electronics of my system. You could go through a wave on your way out, short your switch and you wouldn't even know it until trouble showed up. A manual switch also requires you to catch the leak "before its too late". The kayaks that I've seen nearly sink had water in them almost to the deck before the operators realized there was a problem. If the base of your switch or even just the leads to your switch are under water, you'll be lucky if they work.

And plugging the water outlet is a bad idea. As previously stated, be certain to run a generous amount of hose above your outlet prior to running it down to the bilge and the amount of water coming into the hull from the outlet will be minimal. Plugging the outlet requires you to remember to UNplug the outlet with things "hit the fan". And when things hit the fan, its amazing what you will forget.

I just recently redid my x-factor and my setup is like this...I run a thru-hull (tsunami) pump to the standard x-factor drop-in bait tank that sits behind the seat. The bait tank pump, as well as my fishfinder are run to a pelican waterproof battery case that houses a12v 18amh battery. Both are connected to the battery box via a 4 pin connector and each are connected to their own separate switches and separate fuses. I run my automatic bilge on a separate set of wires to a separate sealed 2 pin connector that sits far above the waterline where the automatic bilge pump kicks in. Since the bilge is automatic, no switch is required. The only break in the direct connection to the battery is the fuse, which, like the other fuses, is sealed in an inline waterproof container AND is in the waterproof pelican battery box. And just in case, I carry a hand bilge strapped to the inside of the lid of my front hatch. And if all of that fails, Neptune wanted my kayak...BAD...but I still have my life jacket, a whistle, a waterproof vhf, a waterproof gps, and a prayer.

I was planning on posting up a few pics of my yak this weekend and perhaps they'd give someone some ideas to improve on what I have. I won't pretend that my setup is the only answer. But, everyone thinks their set-up is the "right" one, and I'm no exception. Its part of why we rig our kayaks. Its fun to think this stuff thru.

I've seen some great things on this site and you guys have been so much more helpful than my lurking would suggest. This site has been my guilty "go-to click" while I've been in grad school and your posts and reports have helped me through many a dreary day of little pay and little time which translates to limited opportunities to take the yak out. So a blanket thanks for all the help and for the opportunities to do a bit of vicarious living through all of you. I'll do my best to participate more and "give a bit back"! Thanks one last time.

dgax65 · 04-28-2010, 12:13 AM

I've got a few ideas on this topic as well.

Having an electric bilge pump will not solve all your problems. Like any electrical equipment on your kayak, it may fail. There are a number of things that you can do to make sure that it will work when you need it. Use marine-grade wiring and components when wiring your electrical system. Put the battery and bus bars/terminal boards in a waterproof box. Weatherproof all the wiring external to the waterproof box. Even if you don't take on water, every time you use your kayak it is exposed to salt air and high levels of humidity. All exposed electrical components/wiring/connectors WILL corrode if you don't protect them. Either use heat shrink butt connectors or liquid electrical tape on your connections. If you have an exposed conductor that you can't seal with liquid electrical tape, use a heavy coat of dielectric grease or a product like Fluid Film to protect it. Check the wiring/connectors/electrical components on a regular basis. Clean and repair those items as soon as wear or corrosion is noted. As Jim Day said, our kayaks are getting rigged more and more like boats. You have to treat them with the same care and respect as a boat.

You should always have a manual backup means of dewatering. Keeping a hand pump inside the hull might not be the best idea. If you have already taken on a significant amount of water and your yak is unstable, opening that big forward hatch to get to your pump might be disastrous. I always keep my hand pump leashed on deck, where I can reach it in a hurry. Only open the hatch with the greatest clearance from the waterline. The rear hatch on an X-Factor or the center hatch on a Prowler might not be the best to use for dewatering. A small shift in balance or a stray wave might put that open hatch under water while you're pumping.

Don't let your kayak fill with water. That sound obvious, but look at the posts about yak sinkings and leaks. I follow over a dozen kayak fishing forums around the country and the world. I have seen lots of reports of kayak leaks, swampings and sinkings. In many cases the yakker reported that he didn't notice a problem until the kayak took on enough water to affect stability. That is usually too late for easy corrective actions. Obviously, a large leak will swamp a kayak quickly; however, most kayaks don't have catastrophic hull failures. Usually, it is a small crack or hole at a weak point on the hull. Your first line of defense is to regularly check your kayak for damage. Get in the habit of routinely checking the hull before use. On a dark beach at 0400 in the morning isn't the time to look for hull damage. Do it before you load up. Check the usual suspects: scupper holes, seams, through-hull fittings, wear spots on the keel, rudder mounts, around the Mirage Drive on Hobies and internal bait tanks and their plumbing.

Learn how your kayak sits in the water. I know exactly where the water comes up to on my scuppers with the standard load on my kayak. I make a habit to check the water level frequently. If you have to, mark your normal waterline with a Sharpie marker. Immediately check for leakage if you are sitting more than a 1/2" lower than your normal waterline. Again, this sounds obvious, but you would be amazed at how often guys are taken completely by surprise when their yak is taking on water. Your initial indication of taking on water shouldn't be falling off of your suddenly tippy kayak. Learn the warning signs. If you have to, paddle around with 20-30 gallons in the hull to learn how it feels. That would also be good practice for pumping out your hull while on your kayak.

How do you power your bilge pump? If you have your FF, bait tank pump and bilge pump all running off the same battery, will you have enough juice to keep the bilge dry if you spring a leak at the end of a long fishing session? I will be reworking my electrical system when I install my bilge pump. My bait tank pump will run off a dedicated battery (6 or 12VDC), while the FF/GPS and bilge pump will be supplied by a 12VDC 10Ahr battery. I know from experience that the FF/GPS will run for at least a full day on the 10A-hr battery. When the bait tank pump and the FF are both on the same battery, the life of the FF is greatly reduced, but the pump will run for hours after the FF shuts down (at 10.2V). That should give me plenty of time to reach shore or summon help.

I ordered a Whale Super Sub 500 from West Marine this afternoon. It should be in on Friday. I'll try to thoroughly document the installation process and post the results. I'll make sure to include some of the great ideas already mentioned in this thread.

kareem korn · 04-28-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapdawg711

The automatic bilge pumps that they have now are GOOD. These are not your old "connect your bilge to a separate float so that your system is the size of a small army" style pumps. They are compact. They turn on only when there are a few inches of water in the boat. They have an internal check valve. And they even come apart for easy cleaning. Water starts to fill the boat and you don't know about it, the pump turns on, you'll hear it, water gets pumped out AND you can investigate. I don't know why you would go any other route.

By adding a manual switch into that system, you are adding a significant weak point.

I'm going to disagree. By not adding a manual switch you creating an "out of sight out of mind" situation. I guess your just going to assume that your bilge is going to work. When are you going to find that out, after you've noticed the weight of the water in your hull?

And plugging the water outlet is a bad idea. As previously stated, be certain to run a generous amount of hose above your outlet prior to running it down to the bilge and the amount of water coming into the hull from the outlet will be minimal. Plugging the outlet requires you to remember to UNplug the outlet with things "hit the fan". And when things hit the fan, its amazing what you will forget.

I'm going to disagree again. Is it really hard to reach over and pull the plug? Please.

.

You really want to keep water from inside the hull? Quit drilling holes in your kayak. You want all that crap, buy a boat. Most got into kayaking for the simplicity of it. What's wrong with the bucket in the milk crate on the outside of the kayak, or the bait tube (again on the outside).

I've never had water in the hull with the exception of getting caught in the surf. The manufactures seals on the manufactures molded openings are suffencient to keep most of the water out.

tunaseeker · 09-04-2010, 06:21 AM

Great Info ful-rac! I was the one who took on a lot of water on Thursday via a hole in the scupper. I like the setup, thanks for sharing.

Question: I have a ff battery 12v do you need another battery for this one or did you rut it to your ff?

04-27-2010, 06:16 AM	#1
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	Pump Has a built in check valve already Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer! http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

04-28-2010, 12:13 AM	#7
dgax65 Guerro Grande Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 629	I've got a few ideas on this topic as well. Having an electric bilge pump will not solve all your problems. Like any electrical equipment on your kayak, it may fail. There are a number of things that you can do to make sure that it will work when you need it. Use marine-grade wiring and components when wiring your electrical system. Put the battery and bus bars/terminal boards in a waterproof box. Weatherproof all the wiring external to the waterproof box. Even if you don't take on water, every time you use your kayak it is exposed to salt air and high levels of humidity. All exposed electrical components/wiring/connectors WILL corrode if you don't protect them. Either use heat shrink butt connectors or liquid electrical tape on your connections. If you have an exposed conductor that you can't seal with liquid electrical tape, use a heavy coat of dielectric grease or a product like Fluid Film to protect it. Check the wiring/connectors/electrical components on a regular basis. Clean and repair those items as soon as wear or corrosion is noted. As Jim Day said, our kayaks are getting rigged more and more like boats. You have to treat them with the same care and respect as a boat. You should always have a manual backup means of dewatering. Keeping a hand pump inside the hull might not be the best idea. If you have already taken on a significant amount of water and your yak is unstable, opening that big forward hatch to get to your pump might be disastrous. I always keep my hand pump leashed on deck, where I can reach it in a hurry. Only open the hatch with the greatest clearance from the waterline. The rear hatch on an X-Factor or the center hatch on a Prowler might not be the best to use for dewatering. A small shift in balance or a stray wave might put that open hatch under water while you're pumping. Don't let your kayak fill with water. That sound obvious, but look at the posts about yak sinkings and leaks. I follow over a dozen kayak fishing forums around the country and the world. I have seen lots of reports of kayak leaks, swampings and sinkings. In many cases the yakker reported that he didn't notice a problem until the kayak took on enough water to affect stability. That is usually too late for easy corrective actions. Obviously, a large leak will swamp a kayak quickly; however, most kayaks don't have catastrophic hull failures. Usually, it is a small crack or hole at a weak point on the hull. Your first line of defense is to regularly check your kayak for damage. Get in the habit of routinely checking the hull before use. On a dark beach at 0400 in the morning isn't the time to look for hull damage. Do it before you load up. Check the usual suspects: scupper holes, seams, through-hull fittings, wear spots on the keel, rudder mounts, around the Mirage Drive on Hobies and internal bait tanks and their plumbing. Learn how your kayak sits in the water. I know exactly where the water comes up to on my scuppers with the standard load on my kayak. I make a habit to check the water level frequently. If you have to, mark your normal waterline with a Sharpie marker. Immediately check for leakage if you are sitting more than a 1/2" lower than your normal waterline. Again, this sounds obvious, but you would be amazed at how often guys are taken completely by surprise when their yak is taking on water. Your initial indication of taking on water shouldn't be falling off of your suddenly tippy kayak. Learn the warning signs. If you have to, paddle around with 20-30 gallons in the hull to learn how it feels. That would also be good practice for pumping out your hull while on your kayak. How do you power your bilge pump? If you have your FF, bait tank pump and bilge pump all running off the same battery, will you have enough juice to keep the bilge dry if you spring a leak at the end of a long fishing session? I will be reworking my electrical system when I install my bilge pump. My bait tank pump will run off a dedicated battery (6 or 12VDC), while the FF/GPS and bilge pump will be supplied by a 12VDC 10Ahr battery. I know from experience that the FF/GPS will run for at least a full day on the 10A-hr battery. When the bait tank pump and the FF are both on the same battery, the life of the FF is greatly reduced, but the pump will run for hours after the FF shuts down (at 10.2V). That should give me plenty of time to reach shore or summon help. I ordered a Whale Super Sub 500 from West Marine this afternoon. It should be in on Friday. I'll try to thoroughly document the installation process and post the results. I'll make sure to include some of the great ideas already mentioned in this thread. __________________ Douglas Gaxiola Team No Fish- Amateur Staff

09-04-2010, 06:21 AM	#9
tunaseeker TB Metal Art Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 653	Great Info Great Info ful-rac! I was the one who took on a lot of water on Thursday via a hole in the scupper. I like the setup, thanks for sharing. Question: I have a ff battery 12v do you need another battery for this one or did you rut it to your ff?

04-27-2010, 03:13 PM	#3
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	you are absolutely right! I read it wrong. This is the part number it calls for. Kind of big in my opinion, I like the one you used much better. http://www.jmsonline.net/inline-non-...-valve-3-4.htm

04-27-2010, 03:25 PM	#4
ful-rac Emperor Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buena Park Posts: 3,649	It's actually the right part the LV1219 the 3/4", but the wrong picture, the picture is of the LV1215 the 1 1/2 " model.

04-27-2010, 05:13 PM	#5
kareem korn Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: C-bad Posts: 431	I'd also shove a rubber stopper in that thru hull when not using the bildge. Nothings fail proof.

04-27-2010, 07:19 PM	#6
Aaron Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 175	Hello, my first post on this site. I've been lurking for years, just signed up a few weeks back and decided to post on this subject as this is a project that I have in the works right now... A few things to note about emergencies...First, they are often unexpected and incredibly fast. This is pretty obvious but seems to be forgotten with a few things that I've read. I think a bilge pump on a kayak is a great idea. I think that it is a MANDATORY accessory for anyone that is using a drop-in bait tank, a kayatank, or any thru-hull type pump. The real and obvious risk that you run with using these things is that they can be leaking and you wouldn't even know it. I've been out with 2 separate people now that came dangerously close to sinking their kayak due to a leaking bladder that they had no idea was leaking. That being said, switches, plugs in the outlet, etc. etc. are all means of crippling your safety device. The automatic bilge pumps that they have now are GOOD. These are not your old "connect your bilge to a separate float so that your system is the size of a small army" style pumps. They are compact. They turn on only when there are a few inches of water in the boat. They have an internal check valve. And they even come apart for easy cleaning. Water starts to fill the boat and you don't know about it, the pump turns on, you'll hear it, water gets pumped out AND you can investigate. I don't know why you would go any other route. By adding a manual switch into that system, you are adding a significant weak point. Switches have consistently been the weak point in the electronics of my system. You could go through a wave on your way out, short your switch and you wouldn't even know it until trouble showed up. A manual switch also requires you to catch the leak "before its too late". The kayaks that I've seen nearly sink had water in them almost to the deck before the operators realized there was a problem. If the base of your switch or even just the leads to your switch are under water, you'll be lucky if they work. And plugging the water outlet is a bad idea. As previously stated, be certain to run a generous amount of hose above your outlet prior to running it down to the bilge and the amount of water coming into the hull from the outlet will be minimal. Plugging the outlet requires you to remember to UNplug the outlet with things "hit the fan". And when things hit the fan, its amazing what you will forget. I just recently redid my x-factor and my setup is like this...I run a thru-hull (tsunami) pump to the standard x-factor drop-in bait tank that sits behind the seat. The bait tank pump, as well as my fishfinder are run to a pelican waterproof battery case that houses a12v 18amh battery. Both are connected to the battery box via a 4 pin connector and each are connected to their own separate switches and separate fuses. I run my automatic bilge on a separate set of wires to a separate sealed 2 pin connector that sits far above the waterline where the automatic bilge pump kicks in. Since the bilge is automatic, no switch is required. The only break in the direct connection to the battery is the fuse, which, like the other fuses, is sealed in an inline waterproof container AND is in the waterproof pelican battery box. And just in case, I carry a hand bilge strapped to the inside of the lid of my front hatch. And if all of that fails, Neptune wanted my kayak...BAD...but I still have my life jacket, a whistle, a waterproof vhf, a waterproof gps, and a prayer. I was planning on posting up a few pics of my yak this weekend and perhaps they'd give someone some ideas to improve on what I have. I won't pretend that my setup is the only answer. But, everyone thinks their set-up is the "right" one, and I'm no exception. Its part of why we rig our kayaks. Its fun to think this stuff thru. I've seen some great things on this site and you guys have been so much more helpful than my lurking would suggest. This site has been my guilty "go-to click" while I've been in grad school and your posts and reports have helped me through many a dreary day of little pay and little time which translates to limited opportunities to take the yak out. So a blanket thanks for all the help and for the opportunities to do a bit of vicarious living through all of you. I'll do my best to participate more and "give a bit back"! Thanks one last time.