Arnie and his enviro cronies screwed us--AGAIN

[dos ballenas]

[Gino]

Richards predicted that the MLPA closures will be overturned in court once all the corruption is exposed that went on with the process. He said a judge will look at the lack of time given for the environmental document in the South Coast Region and throw the document out.

Depends on the judge... Theres alot of judges these days over ruling public opinions/votes. If the judge is from San Francisco it will all be pointless And Im not trying to cross issues. But that seems to be the trend in this states politics.

Unfortunately for Stan K G, "Reasonable" is a term for bending over and closing your eyes. The MLPA process has given fisherman nothing. And they have gained nothing out of it. There is nothing Reasonable about it.
No matter what Maps come up, its the Fisherman losing...
Another unfortunate aspect is there is alot of new Kayakfishing folks int he scene these days (not that im an old salt or a season vet myself) But Its important that these new folks get educated on this MLPA topic.

You get alot of Stan K G, and Young Mola comments alot these days becuase they werent around for the Meetings, and They werent around when the process was in the "infuence war phase" when the maps were being created. Its really a drag going over this process, over and over, It can be a turn off for people becuase its so long drawn out, and detailed. Including all the crooked politics behind it.
But its important to get more folks involved and educated.

This process allows for more closures at a later time, or map expansions... With this process being exposed for what it is. Kayak fishing has a very grim future. There has been many here who have dedicated themselves so much to this process. Its the rest of us who have a duty to spread the word, and insure our sport has a future in this state.

[Gino]

Lets not be hasetfull to prosecute the ill informed.

Stan, If you want you can give me a call, ill PM you my #. Ill explain a couple key points about the process so I can bring you up to date.


Excuse those with harsh comments. Many people put alot of time and hard work into fighting these closures. Its a passionate topic.

[Tman]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

How about instead of jumping up my ass you do some of that explaining and educating?

There's like 20 different maps for different proposals and none of the news articles cover what is likely to go into effect. All I'm seeing is each side calling the other nazi's and "devils".

Stan, no one (hopefully) means to jump up your ass, it's just that there has been from day one a unification with the kayakers and spearos in fighting this 'losing' battle and it still riles the phook out of alot of us.

As you stated, there's like 20 different maps...guess what, every time we thought we were compromising, giving in to save a little, they changed the shit on us so they could get what they want. There has been no compromise on their end, lotsa lies, and even more harassment by the other side in different forms.

Do a search, seek out some old posts on what actually went on in these meetings...you will be shocked, and even more shocked that the whole time this shit was going on you were one of the many who were unaware of how bad we were about to be phooked....

Like I said, no one is pissing in your direction, but we can finally open up about how this whole process was flawed, fixed, and the BRTF was bought and paid from day one...

[Grego]

This is just plain BS.....the best we can do is comment on the DEIR, then watch them ignore, tap dance around, or half ass address the comments.

[dsafety]

The apparent fact that the powers that be do not want a reasonable moderate who pays attention to the facts involved with the DFG does not surprise me. We all know that most Government decisions are purchased by special interests these days.

All the Machiavellian twists and turns of the MLPA process now has me fully confused. Do we want the DFG to sit on its backside and not do anything for months and years to come? Do we want to push for a reasonable resolution soon? Which would be better?

The next question involves the incoming Governor. I tried for months, but could not pin down either the Brown or Whitman camp on where they stand on the MLPA issue. All I ever got were promises that someone would get back to me. We have no idea what either candidate might do once they gain power. Is the devil you know better than the devil you don't know?

My gut feeling is the Whitman might be more inclined to see things our way but if she is successful in buying her way into the Governor's chair, she will undoubtedly have a bunch of big political debts to pay off. Some of those payments could be going to people who do not agree with our point of view.

Brown, on the other hand is more of a known quantity. Unfortunately, his leanings have historically favored the the enviros. This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as he listens to some of the more reasonable people in that camp. We could end up getting screwed either way.

Brown and Whitman are debating tonight. It sure would be nice if someone could sneak in a question on the MLPA. Unlikely but one can hope.

Bob

[Gino]

Whitman is run by political advisors. What she will say in public and What she will say in private may be 2 differant things. (or even what shes saying in public for that matter)
Thats a Craps Table Dice roll...win big or bust.

Were as Jerry Brown is well connected with the political enviormental possey. His apointments to the Air/Carb board speak plainly enough. The guy seeks support from Unions and Enviormental influences. Besides why trust a man whos hands have been on the kiln shaping the mess this state is in. The guys been in CA politics for 40 years. Hes done nothing to stop it, what makes you think he will now? Hes never balanced a payroll in his life anyways.

Just look where the money is comming from, and whos contributing to whome. And youll have your answer to that question.

Ive said it before the next governor has the power to work on either sides behalf on this process. The State STILL doesn thave a budget for this year... It will be the least of the next Governors problems.

[MVC]

I would not expect to get any help from either Brown or Whitman. I hate to say it but unfortunately our best hope is with the Courts.

[Ohana]

Originally Posted by MVC

I would not expect to get any help from either Brown or Whitman. I hate to say it but unfortunately our best hope is with the Courts.

Having dealt with the South County Air Quality Management District and their clean air mandate with regards to emissions and the printing industry, you are correct that the courts are the most effective way to put a stake in this vampire called the MLPA. Courts are something they fear as they have to present the facts and figures that they claim they based their decision process on. What I observed with the AQMD is a lot of assumptions and "we feel that..." statements are what they use in their decision process and the courts punch holes in these "facts".

Kevin

[T Bone]

Well forget about Jerry Brown.He is such a UN-represenative of the people that as ATTONEY GENERAL he took an OATH to UPHOLD THE LAW,that is to say THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.He is Taking a political stand (Stunt)against Prop 8 because its what his party stands on and his leftie buddies count on him to do.He should just say "I am Against it,but the people have spoken"Dont think that he cares what you think.As for Meg (Whitman not that tree banger Caldwell)I dont know what her stand is but she would seem to be the lesser of 2 evils.

[T Bone]

I dont like Meg Whitman either I just cant stand Jerry Brown...

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Gino

Whitman is run by political advisors. What she will say in public and What she will say in private may be 2 differant things. (or even what shes saying in public for that matter)
Thats a Craps Table Dice roll...win big or bust.

Were as Jerry Brown is well connected with the political enviormental possey. His apointments to the Air/Carb board speak plainly enough. The guy seeks support from Unions and Enviormental influences. Besides why trust a man whos hands have been on the kiln shaping the mess this state is in. The guys been in CA politics for 40 years. Hes done nothing to stop it, what makes you think he will now? Hes never balanced a payroll in his life anyways.

Just look where the money is comming from, and whos contributing to whome. And youll have your answer to that question.

Ive said it before the next governor has the power to work on either sides behalf on this process. The State STILL doesn thave a budget for this year... It will be the least of the next Governors problems.

Gino... Jim Kellogg, who is the union pipe fitters president donated something like $500,000.00 to Jerry Brown. Jim Kellogg is also the president of the Fish and Game Commission and sides with Richards. I believe Jim Kellogg is a president of some hunting club too and loves fishing. This tells me to vote for Brown.

[GregAndrew]

Like someone else already stated, because of his actions in this process, I regret having cast a vote in the direction of Arne. It appears, by all the recent evidence, that he intends for this to be a moot point for the next governor anyway. He wants this to be his legacy and will cram it down our throats before Dec. recess, and to hell with reason. I would love to see the judge that required the BRTF to show all their work halt the process until everyone had a chance to chew it over.

I would not want to hazard a guess as to which of the candidates for the next governor would better meet our expectations. Nor do I expect anyone to cast their vote solely based on their interpretation of the candidates stance on the MLPA (or their stance on Unions). There are too many other very important considerations for each and every one of us in this state today. You gotta pick the package that is best for you and eat a little vinegar with your sugar.

I hope, at the meeting, we can all keep our heads and be on topic so that the other side appears to be what they are. They are the fanatics, the instigators, the liars and the ones that prey on the ill informed and those that could care less.

The fact is that there will be an MLPA process unless the voters repeal the law. There will be reserves and conservation areas which, unfortunately, will close some peoples favorite spots. But, what was in the passed law is a far cry from what we are being presented in the all but final product. Complete areas of consideration (like flora, pollution, etc.), all highly related, have been swept under the rug from consideration. Not to mention all the above mentioned back room and chopping block dealings that have been going on throughout the process. Seems to me that this is the weakest link in the chain, and the point most easily attacked.

[Holy Mackerel]

Oh boy, time to lock this thread.........

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Kiyo

Gino... Jim Kellogg, who is the union pipe fitters president donated something like $500,000.00 to Jerry Brown. Jim Kellogg is also the president of the Fish and Game Commission and sides with Richards. I believe Jim Kellogg is a president of some hunting club too and loves fishing. This tells me to vote for Brown.

That is all 100% true Kiyo

I was talking more along the lines of public employee unions. Even with those Contributions, Jerry Brown has pushed a very strong Green Agenda. So the contribution may have more to do with public works projects and future contracts aka work. Since the money came form the Pipe/steam fitters Union, and has little to do with Fishing rights. Jerry Brown is one man who does not back down on an Enviormental Agenda. The 405 and 5 freeways between 3-6pm are proof of that. Im acually a big fan of trade unions, But i think once they dibble & dabel into the political theater i think they have over reached there intented purpose. Trade unions and Public Employee unions are almost night and day in comparrison. I personally dont think public employees, employed by the taxpayers should be unionized. I could make a great case for it. And Jerry Brown orchestrated it during his first terms has governor (not that i was born yet)

Im not a fan of either Canidate, And I apologize if recently or in the past I may have sounded persuasive about the governors race.
I personally wont be taking part in picking the next governor. I honestly think that anyone who is capable of running this state effectively is acually to smart to want the job

[CurtyL]

dang, I missed one of the best threads ever. I guess old Stan got the boot.

[Hunters Pa]

Isn't Arnies private residence in Pacific Palisades, with a nice view? No wonder he sides with the Malibu celebs & Laguna elitists.

[robmandel]

Originally Posted by zenspearo

Somebody else takes this.

general zenspearo, I'm on the ground for you anytime you call!! you were awesome at our meetings. if I didn't say it before, thanks a million!!

Originally Posted by Stan K G

How about instead of jumping up my ass you do some of that explaining and educating?

There's like 20 different maps for different proposals and none of the news articles cover what is likely to go into effect. All I'm seeing is each side calling the other nazi's and "devils".

you have no idea the bloodletting fight we went through. if you weren't in carlsbad, long beach, ontario, wherever the hell else, as a whole bunch of us were, you can't understand what we faced. for those of us, LJ guys, malibu guys, spearos, we fought a life and death battle. I consider all of them my brothers. I'd go to war with them any time. as long as blood runs through my veins, I'm all in.

first, the emotional legacy of this event alone is enormous. we faced literally, from teh start, a death sentence. so your "compromise" is a bad situation that could have been so much worse. which sounds like a compromise, except there was no "give" on the enviro part. they got to take, take, take. they just didn't take it all. yet.

second, you have no understanding of the web of conflicts, compromises, and outright dishonest and illegal activities. look, I spent a ton of time investigating, and there were business partners (schem and anderson) on the BRTF, who sold out their votes to save their asses in MDR. the head of the BRTF was bought and paid for by the monterey bay aquarium via the packard foundation, who also funded the entire mlpa process. there so much more. the group running the show, the RLFF, gets its money from the PF and MBA. and the chair of that group is a colleague of meg caldwell's at stanford. there's a huge, I mean HUUUUUGE freaking web of conflicts.

you didn't see school teachers parade in their whole classroom and stand there parroting lines they were given extra credit to recite a bunch of mindless shit. while our ass-kicking kid Clay jumped into the fray like a fighter, stood tall, and kicked the shit outta those bastards. T-Man, you got a great boy there!! and what that asshat wiseman did to your son, man you got some self-restraint!!!

you didn't see the mistreatment and outright abuse we suffered while the laguna tuna battalion got to ramble on and on. I could go on...

from teh start, it was a decked stacked so much against us. it was supposed to be a simple, get in-get out-get done, deal, steamroll us and move on. but we stood there at the pass of the hot gates, and there weren't even 300 of us.

anyways, it ain't about closures, compromises, and science. it's principle. fishing is a right, we've hurt nobody, and we aren't the problem. they put our backs to the wall and lined up the firing squad. the whole process has nothing to do at all with protecting marine species. period. it's a disgusting abuse of power. remember, there was no victory for us. if they did nothing at all, we'd be where we started with, which was all we wanted. we asked for nothing from anybody. simply wanted the dfg to manage the game, which is their job, which is what out license money goes for. period. no matter what happened, we lost. period. that is no compromise. we are no special interest. special interests ask government for favors, money, special privilege. all we want is to be left the hell alone. period. we don't hurt anyone, nobody has been aggrieved by us, nobody has cause for redress. period.

we are the victims of a tyrannical government run amock. and we're still gonna fight like hell.

I'm sure you don't know any of that, which is fine. go back, read the old posts about what happened.

[zenspearo]

From: http://www.mercurynews.com/californi...nclick_check=1

Jack Baylis to be appointed Fish and Game Commissioner

"Fish and Game Commission to hold special meeting on fishing limits
By Melissa Pamer Staff Writer
Posted: 09/28/2010 06:42:56 PM PDT
Updated: 09/28/2010 06:52:34 PM PDT

A state commission will hold a special meeting Wednesday to consider extending the public comment period for a controversial plan that could halt or limit fishing in nearly 400 square miles of waters off Southern California.
A large area off Point Vicente on the Palos Verdes Peninsula would be affected by the plan, which was developed under the state's Marine Life Protection Act, known as the MLPA.
The 11-year-old law, designed in part to protect ocean habitat, prompted a lengthy and closely watched process that last year divided fishing interests and environmentalists over which coastal waters should be designated marine protected areas.
The five-member California Fish and Game Commission, which has in recent weeks seen abrupt changes in its makeup, will today at a noon meeting near Sacramento vote on whether to allow another 45 days for comment on a lengthy environmental review of the proposal.

A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said late Tuesday that a new appointee - Jack Baylis of Los Angeles - would be announced this morning and would participate in the meeting.
Baylis, an executive with global design and engineering firm AECOM, is on the board of the state Coastal Conservancy and is a former board member of nonprofit local advocacy group Heal the Bay. The group pushed for strong local protections - some of which were intensely opposed by South Bay fishermen - during the MLPA process.
Commission Deputy Executive Director Adrianna Shea said today's vote comes in response to requests from members of the public who wanted more time to examine a state-required environmental report that is more than 500 pages long.
"They're saying it's because it's a large document and they need time to review it. Others are saying it's a stall tactic so a decision won't be made until after the election," Shea said.
The report focuses on a compromise plan that was approved last year by the MLPA initiative's Blue Ribbon Task Force. The Fish and Game Commission must certify the review and related regulations before marine protected areas can be created.
The report was made available Aug. 18. Comment is currently due Oct. 4, and commission staff expected a vote on the plan by December.
If an extension is approved today, comments would be due in mid-November and a commission vote on the landmark marine initiative would not occur until after a new governor is in office following the Nov. 2 election, Shea said.
Today's vote comes after a period of uncertainty about the Fish and Game Commission's membership.
Last month, Don Benninghoven, a commission appointee who was thought to be sympathetic to environmentalists and who had previously overseen the Blue Ribbon Task Force, was not confirmed to the post by the state Senate.
Then, on Sept. 9, Schwarzenegger's office announced a new appointee: Michael Sutsos, a 56-year-old Sonoma resident who is president of a Bay Area hunting club.
Sutsos participated in one two-day commission meeting in mid-September. At that time, he voted with the majority to bring the MLPA public comment extension to a vote at today's meeting.

On Monday, Sutsos told commission staff that he had been informed his appointment was being withdrawn, Shea said. Schwarzenegger spokesman Matthew Connelly would not say what caused the change in commission makeup. "It didn't work out. It's a personnel matter and I can't really go beyond that," Connelly said.
Baylis would have to be confirmed by the state Senate within one year or his appointment would expire, Shea said. If confirmed, Baylis' term would expire in 2016.
melissa.pamer@dailybreeze.com
Find out more
What: Fish and Game Commission meeting to consider extending public review of an environmental report on a plan to limit or halt fishing and protect ocean habitat in Southern California.
Where: The meeting is in McClellan, Calif. Watch online at cal-span.org.
When: Noon today
More info: The review document is available at dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/regulatorydocs_sc.asp"

[AquaticHunter]

Originally Posted by zenspearo

From: http://www.mercurynews.com/californi...nclick_check=1

Jack Baylis to be appointed Fish and Game Commissioner


Baylis, is on the board of the state Coastal Conservancy and is a former board member of nonprofit local advocacy group Heal the Bay. "

We need to start calling State Senetors to make sure this guy is not confirmed.

Originally Posted by Grego

What the F...seems like the enviros are hunting and fishing around this board AGAIN with this stan man and bmercury login names

Exactly what I was thinking. But I'm proud to stand and fight with the rest of you guys. As Rob said, "I'm on the ground for you anytime you call!!"