Thresher Conservation Debate

[FISHIONADO]

Thanks for the post Jim, I really appreciate discussing this because I'm honestly still trying to form my own informed opinion.

How about someone like me who never goes after fish bigger than I can catch on my kayak locally? I have no interest in 100lb fish or 200lb fish. I wouldn't be able to consume a 100lb+ fish in a reasonable manner, seems those should go to a fish market where they will get consumed quickly.

A smaller thresher would get fully respected, meaning it would get fully consumed.

I haven't taken one, and only had to release a couple. I don't care for shark myself but I've been prepared to consume one if it was by-catch and couldn't be released healthy.

[bmercury]

I personally would not keep any shark unless it died before I could release it. Sharks just reproduce too slowly and are too vulnerable to overfishing. Also because of the mercury content.

And if I did happen to kill a baby shark for some reason I wouldn't pose for pictures.

I would feel very bad about keeping a shark, but I feel bad about keeping any fish(except legal halibut, just too tasty for their own good!). Why? Because I know that there are people out there that keep EVERYTHING. I have seen the way people look at you when you throw back anything that is legal to keep.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by bmercury

If I did happen to kill a baby shark for some reason I wouldn't pose for pictures.

Yeah... well... posting pictures of small sharks definitely encourage others to take them because it makes it seem more commonplace or acceptable.

It's not about bragging but it's about cultivating a mentality. People do what they think it's cool to do. Right now some have convinced fisherman that there is nothing wrong with keeping small sharks. We just need to change that mentality because they (Tsharks) are so easy to target and over fish when they are small because they school up and often stick around in the same area for days or more close to shore.

Adults are harder to over fish because they are constantly on the move, so they are simply not as susceptible to overfishing.

Originally Posted by bmercury

I know that there are people out there that keep EVERYTHING. I have seen the way people look at you when you throw back anything that is legal to keep.

There are people like that, but we are not all like that.

Most California fisherman learn ocean fishing on sportboats and sportboats have a interest in getting people to keep as many fish as possible. They are a business and they get business from advertising a high number of fish caught or high fish counts.

Once again it's about a mentality. If you think it's cool to kill as many fish as you can then that is what you do, and usually how you think about these things depends on where you learned to fish.

This last year do to the slow tuna season landings were really hurting for business so some really played up the local Sandbass fishing. For a while some landings were posting counts of 6000 bass a day during the spawn. They don't post catch and release numbers, they post fish killed and as far as they are concerned the more the better because big numbers mean lots of guys on their boats.

Now look at the larger picture. This was going on right during the last year of the MLPA debate right in the middle of arguments about inshore fishing and what the enviros want closed in the name of "conservation". So both the Enviros and the DFG were looking very closely at inshore fish counts.

Those 6000 fish a day counts may of gave the landings lots of short term business but they hurt the fishing community because now the enviros are calling for a closed season on bass during their spawn. Milton Love and the Santa Barbara crowd is already pushing for it. It's going to happen in the next two years, all because some landings wanted to increase their numbers of customers on their boats, and posted a bunch of dead bass in their counts.

There is no commercial fishery for those fish, only recs fish for those bass, and most Rec anglers like Kayakers don't take many but the sportboats do it because it's part of their business model and now because of their actions it's very likely that we will all loose our right to fish them during the spawning months, within a year or two.

What I'm saying here is that I hear you on that score. The keep everything you legally can mentality definitely hurts fisherman, if for no other reason then it gives us a bad rep, but what are you going to do?

There will always be sportboats, and it's always going to be in their best interest to keep as many fish as they can, because big counts are good for business, and more fish cleaning means more cash at the end of the day.

So as long as it's good for their bottom line they will take all they can, and that influences the fishing community as a whole.

Kinda like I said above posting big counts of fish like bass definitely encourages others to take more of them as well because it makes it seem more commonplace or acceptable to take them, but it's not necessarily good for fishing.

Once again it's not about bragging but it's about cultivating a mentality.

People do what they think it's cool to do. Right now we have group of fisherman convinced that there is nothing wrong with keeping every fish they hook as long as it's not over their limit, and with boat limits they can still catch fish for others even when that limit is achieved.

Is that good for fishing.. not really. It's a sportboat mentality, not the kayaker mentality, but it still exists even if it's something that needs to be changed.

Jim

[T Bone]

landings fishing the flats off HB were allways getting sandbass limits for full boats everyday for 6-8 weeks for years.Now I dont see those numbers anymore.And people are trying to blame humboldt squid!
We need to change the daily bag limit for bass to 5

[FISHIONADO]

Regarding Marlin, I'm not sure. I don't target any fish for "catch and release", that goes against my morals, I only fish for meat.

If the DFG determined that the Thresher fishery would be sustainable if we release everything less than 28" I would be happy with that. Same with Marlin. My point is, let's figure out the right regulations and then manage the resource accordingly. I'm going to lobby for a sustainable harvest, not protecting "trophy" size fish.

Jim, we've got to have a beer some time. We may not always agree but I respect your experience and passion for the subject.

[CurtyL]

Does any one else here think that T realy doesn't taste that great? I kept one, bled it correctly and all, and got some nice steaks out of it. Grilled some up and - yuck. I don't keep em cause I won't eat em.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

I don't target any fish for "catch and release", that goes against my morals, I only fish for meat....

Originally Posted by bmercury

I believe others are killing far more than their far share, so I feel bad about keeping anything that could instead be released.

Though I see where you are both coming from I find both of those attitudes a little extreme.

It kind of reminds of a female friend I know who is deeply religious: She once told me that she did not believe in sex before marriage and then added that sex even in marriage should only be used for procreation.

I disagree with both those ideas, my take being that it takes the fun out of the equation.

I don't think fishing is purely about getting meat, just like I don't think sex is just about trying to get kids. Nor do I think others irresponsibility when it comes to fishing or even reproduction means that I should not have fun, or take something home when the opportunity presents itself

All joking aside this is not religion.

There is not one single way to fishing salvation, or only one right way to fish.

I will say there are wrong ways to fish, non-sustainable ways, and I think most of those problematic ways are based on old models or old mentalities or even ignorance about fishing that see the ocean as this unlimted resource.

The ocean is not a unlimited resource, by now everyone should realize that it can be over exploited, which results and diminished stocks and frankly shitty fishing. I'm selfish I love to fish and I want fish around for the future so I can fish them.

Originally Posted by bmercury

I understand that there are a lot of people that are big on conservation but that doesn't put fish back into the ocean.

I think you are wrong there. Conservation and changing people attitudes about fishing is the only thing that is going to put more fish back into the ocean when it comes to stocks that are being overexploited or overfished.

There is fishing that is sustainable and there is fishing that is damaging to our resources and therefor unsustainable.

The deal is we need to educate fisherman as well as the public as to what fishing is unsustainable and then show them alternatives: ways of fishing that are sustainable.

We also need to educate them on the environmental factors that are effecting fish as well. Water quality is a huge issue when it comes to Southern California fishing and it one issue that is frankly being ignored in the race for reserves.

That said we are the fisherman first so it's up to us to monitor the direct impacts of our activities, and choose wisely when it comes to what we do out there. My take is to fish responsibly and set an example for others.

You can't fish for fish that not there. So the best thing we can do for fishing is educate fisherman and consumers as to what's a problem and what's not, based on reality, not beliefs or extreme positions one way or another.

Once again just my take though.

Jim

[FISHIONADO]

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

I don't target any fish for "catch and release", that goes against my morals, I only fish for meat.

I should keep this to myself better, most of my friends are bass fishermen.

[bmercury]

Jim, I think my point was that I believe others are killing far more than their far share, so I feel bad about keeping anything that could instead be released. I understand that there are a lot of people that are big on conservation but that doesn't put fish back into the ocean.

And yes good point about the sportboats. They needlessly leave a wake of destruction. Going rockfishing on one of those boats is just insane. They try to prevent you from using anything but the smallest baits. Then they just kill hundreds and hundreds of baby rockfish day in and day out for a much smaller amount of keepers.

Science shows that these fish can be safely released with very little effort on their part, but they only care about the $$$ and of course are very well represented with lobbyists, lawyers, industry trade groups etc to be able to continue their unsustainable practices.

Originally Posted by T Bone

people are trying to blame humboldt squid!

Wow that is insane. Reminds me of a certain country which blames certain cetaceans for the decline in their fisheries.



Also another reason not to eat a shark... you know the taxman is never too far from you

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

A smaller thresher would get fully respected, meaning it would get fully consumed. I haven't taken one, and only had to release a couple. I don't care for shark myself but I've been prepared to consume one if it was by-catch and couldn't be released healthy.

Well it's a given that fish should never be wasted, in fact it's law, but you still usually have a choice whether to keep it or not.

If we had lots of baby Marlin around would you be tempted to keep them?

Striped Marlin are good to eat. If you kept one it would probably not be wasted, but it is still better to let them go, because it's a better precedent for fishing in general. People do not let small Marlin go because they taste bad, people let them go because they want a healthy population of adults to fish for. People should release Ts for the same reason.

Sharks have always kind of got a bad rap as far as killing them goes, like it's no big deal to kill a shark or that it does not matter. When you kill a forty pound T it's just the same as killing a 400 pound T because if you think about it you'll quickly realize that if released that shark it would almost certainly grow to full size if not killed by man.

It's an adaption of mentality. If the majority of recreational fisherman just need to get that fact that we are the top predator of these sharks, that we are the only thing that kills them on a regular basis. Then perhaps they would realize that even killing the smallest T shark has a impact on the fishery, and if we just released those pups we'd have a lot more 400 lb T's around, and more pups and higher population numbers in general.

Jim