Bend over and grab your ankles...

[taggermike]

The whole mlpa "process" was a political feel good thing rather than a scientific ecological endever. The process was rammed thru at a speed that didn't allow science or data collection to be done. If asecements are done evety 10 years, or 5 or 100, the process is fundamentally flawed because initial pre-protection data was not collected. How can you claim, or even know, is things have changed when you don't have at least 2 things to compair. the 10 to 20 year period will provide data but again, with out the beginning data this data will be much less valid. Mike

[Silbaugh4liberty]

Originally Posted by taggermike

The whole mlpa "process" was a political feel good thing rather than a scientific ecological endever. The process was rammed thru at a speed that didn't allow science or data collection to be done. If asecements are done evety 10 years, or 5 or 100, the process is fundamentally flawed because initial pre-protection data was not collected. How can you claim, or even know, is things have changed when you don't have at least 2 things to compair. the 10 to 20 year period will provide data but again, with out the beginning data this data will be much less valid. Mike

Not only that, but it violates California's Constitution, but what politicians actually read the law these days? We know good old Barry doesn't.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


Section 25. ]The people shall have the right to fish upon and from
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State;
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken.

So basically the DFG is only allowed to make rules regulating the seasons, and what equipment we can use to fish (# of lines, hoopnets, speargun, etc.).

No where does the law state that by statute they may they allow designated (NO FISHING ZONES). I'm not necessarily against having an MLPA within reason, (i.e. scientific data, research and proof they are working, and length of time imposed). We need to protect the nature we enjoy, but they aren't representing the people when they make executive decisions like this. They need the people to vote on it.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1

[2-Stix]

after fishing for 30+ years, its enough time to know better. that places only close, never open or reopen. its happened to me on so many fronts. offroading and dirt bike racing, hiking, climbing areas, flyfishing spots, rivers, lakes, trails, you name it, etc....the amount of wilderness areas are insane. for me it all boils down to this...if we can not recreate, and thats all people, mountains to ski on, rivers to fish, all out door types need a place to do their sports. ALL. i dont frisby golf, but those guys need their place...if not... then we all just sit on the couch doing drugs and watching football...well some do that anyway.

parts of both sides of my family are off the reservation and they poach salmon and steelhead often. been fined and jailed over it even. i dont like that, but i do a lot of that type of flyfishing, offroading on my dirt bike and hiking and snowboarding in the "out of bounds"....all the illegal fishing is catch and release. always.

this topic burns me up. i fished areas in the mid 80's with my dad that are 20 mins from my house, not illegal and my son that is 3 will never legally get too.

what every sport you do...stick around it for 10 years and then tell me about how much better it got. it takes time to watch the BS roll out. I could go on for days about this pertaining to riding dirtbikes in the mojave desert, fishing in the backcountry in ventura county, the eastern sierra etc...

[taggermike]

Well said Josh. Once areas are closed that's pretty much the end of them. Even if, some how, mlpas were proven to not benefit fish populations they would still remained closed.

And Silbaugh, the mlpa planners did an end around the state constitution. The part about only controlling season and the conditions of take was used to have no season and no conditions of take in certain areas. The state constitution clearly protects the peoples' right to fish but our politicians and a group of lawyers found a way to f it up. Mike

[Silbaugh4liberty]

Originally Posted by taggermike

Well said Josh. Once areas are closed that's pretty much the end of them. Even if, some how, mlpas were proven to not benefit fish populations they would still remained closed.

And Silbaugh, the mlpa planners did an end around the state constitution. The part about only controlling season and the conditions of take was used to have no season and no conditions of take in certain areas. The state constitution clearly protects the peoples' right to fish but our politicians and a group of lawyers found a way to f it up. Mike

I believe they utilize Color of Law (ie. Statutes) and nail people with it via a License (contractual agreement if you will), to make it apply. I firmly believe you can beat this if you got a ticket if you know what you're doing. Of course, its human nature to take the path of least resistance and not try to get a ticket by getting a license and abide by the statutes, but I believe it can be done.

And if someone really has some balls, they can pull a Marc Stevens from the No State Project, and file for Discovery to Prove that the Statues and Laws apply because you're physically with the state of (wherever). Crazy, but apparently it works according to all the video testimonies.

[Silbaugh4liberty]

Originally Posted by Silbaugh4liberty

I believe they utilize Color of Law (ie. Statutes) and nail people with it via a License (contractual agreement if you will), to make it apply. I firmly believe you can beat this if you got a ticket if you know what you're doing. Of course, its human nature to take the path of least resistance and not try to get a ticket by getting a license and abide by the statutes, but I believe it can be done.

And if someone really has some balls, they can pull a Marc Stevens from the No State Project, and file for Discovery to Prove that the Statues and Laws apply because you're physically with the state of (wherever). Crazy, but apparently it works according to all the video testimonies.

To further my argument, here's some Case Law for you:

"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them."
Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491

"The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489

"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights."
Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946

"The state cannot diminish Rights of the people."
Hurtado vs. California, 110 US 516

"It is the duty of the courts to be watchful for the Constitutional rights of the citizen and against any stealthy encroachments thereon."
Boyd vs. United States, 116 US 616

"Economic necessity cannot justify a disregard of Constitutional guarantee."
Riley vs. Carter, 79 ALR 1018;
16 Am.Jur. (2nd), Const. Law, Sect. 81



(YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!)

[2-Stix]

Originally Posted by Silbaugh4liberty

I believe they utilize Color of Law (ie. Statutes) and nail people with it via a License (contractual agreement if you will), to make it apply. I firmly believe you can beat this if you got a ticket if you know what you're doing. Of course, its human nature to take the path of least resistance and not try to get a ticket by getting a license and abide by the statutes, but I believe it can be done.

And if someone really has some balls, they can pull a Marc Stevens from the No State Project, and file for Discovery to Prove that the Statues and Laws apply because you're physically with the state of (wherever). Crazy, but apparently it works according to all the video testimonies.

I hiked and fished Tar Creek for 20+ years, some assholes from LA posted youtube videos cliff diving, then place got trashed, 100+ people a weekend day. The environmentalist come in and claimed that there is an endangered Arroyo Toad, trash, what ever they need. The place is closed now. Along with 15 others I once played in as a kid swimming and fishing. This is how 50% of the place I ride and fish have closed. Over and over and over this happens. I spend all my free time out. I have lost countless spots.

So how do you fight that? You can't. Its over.

Theres even a yelp page for crying out loud.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/tar-creek-fillmore

Here is a good account of what happens to us time and time again.
Play by play.
This link is a friend that I get out doors with.
http://davidstillman.blogspot.com/20...sing-soon.html

[alanw]

Standard operating procedure for the government. Ask the guys fighting the BLM what to do.