good beginner setup?

[SASQUATCH]

i am new to kayak fishing. could anyone help guide me in selecting a decent rod and reel setup for ocean fishing? mainly for bass, rockfish, and halibut and such. don't want bottom line either, just about mid grade as far as budget goes.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by SASQUATCH

i am new to kayak fishing. could anyone help guide me in selecting a decent rod and reel setup for ocean fishing? mainly for bass, rockfish, and halibut and such. don't want bottom line either, just about mid grade as far as budget goes.

How about a Daiwa SL20SH filled with thirty power pro, for use with 15-25 pound topshots, on a 7ft Seeker or Calstar rated for 10-30 pound.

Here's the logic: That reel is light weight, easy to maintain, casts great, has a great clicker, and a good fast gear ratio. The drag is not that strong, only really suitable 20 pound but is enough for what you want to target.

You can hold it all day without wearing your arm out, it casts well enough for plastics, has enough capacity with the spectra to fish deep, and it cranks fast enough for fishing rockfish.

Halibut wise the drag is smooth as silk, and with that clicker you can drift for butts clicker on reel out of gear.

A good all around reel about 100 bucks new on sale, or fifty to 75 used on ebay.

Rod wise Seekers and Calstars are tough, they a light enough tip for halibut, and enough backbone for cranking up rockfish.

Spectra will allow you to fish deeper with lighter weight for rockfish, keep you on the bottom with better feel for halibut and it will cut through kelp for bass.

Topshots 15 for halibut, 20 for fishing bass in the kelp, 25 for fishing light Iron for rockfish.

A plus is if you ever go out on a sport boat the rig will be ideal for bait fishing tuna, or yellowtail on paddies.

All and all that's a good setup that should set you back about 200 bucks if you shop around.

That's my take.

[spottie slayer]

For kayak fishing in salt water I like to have a good anodized reel, and a rod with a good warranty. I would recommend Avet sx or mx with 50 to 60 lb power pro. Maxima top shot 15 to 25 lb, and Shimano Teramar medium heavy. Thats my opinion.

[FishNinjaY]

Originally Posted by spottie slayer

For kayak fishing in salt water I like to have a good anodized reel, and a rod with a good warranty. I would recommend Avet sx or mx with 50 to 60 lb power pro. Maxima top shot 15 to 25 lb, and Shimano Teramar medium heavy. Thats my opinion.

This is one of my exact setups.. except I have 40lb power pro on an SXJ, with an MH/XF Teramar.

I like the Daiwa Sealine reels, and the Seeker/Calstar setup described above seems like a good value setup. Hmm...

[SASQUATCH]

wow, great detailed response. thanks for the reasoning behind your choice.

[oneyedeer]

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

How about a Daiwa SL20SH filled with thirty power pro, for use with 15-25 pound topshots, on a 7ft Seeker or Calstar rated for 10-30 pound.

Here's the logic: That reel is light weight, easy to maintain, casts great, has a great clicker, and a good fast gear ratio. The drag is not that strong, only really suitable 20 pound but is enough for what you want to target.

You can hold it all day without wearing your arm out, it casts well enough for plastics, has enough capacity with the spectra to fish deep, and it cranks fast enough for fishing rockfish.

Halibut wise the drag is smooth as silk, and with that clicker you can drift for butts clicker on reel out of gear.

A good all around reel about 100 bucks new on sale, or fifty to 75 used on ebay.

Rod wise Seekers and Calstars are tough, they a light enough tip for halibut, and enough backbone for cranking up rockfish.

Spectra will allow you to fish deeper with lighter weight for rockfish, keep you on the bottom with better feel for halibut and it will cut through kelp for bass.

Topshots 15 for halibut, 20 for fishing bass in the kelp, 25 for fishing light Iron for rockfish.

A plus is if you ever go out on a sport boat the rig will be ideal for bait fishing tuna, or yellowtail on paddies.

All and all that's a good setup that should set you back about 200 bucks if you shop around.

That's my take.

x2

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

How about a Daiwa SL20SH filled with thirty power pro, for use with 15-25 pound topshots, on a 7ft Seeker or Calstar rated for 10-30 pound.

That's good advice.

Sealines are great reels for the $. They are good right out of the box, and when you service them you can upgrade to the carbon-tex drags. The Sealines are pretty durable, and can withstand the abuse they see on the kayak. I'd do 50 lb braid, just to increase the top shot capabilities. With 50 braid, I fish anywhere from 15 - 35 lb flouro. Fill the reel to the brim with spectra, and in most situations you only need a short top-shot.

You really can't go wrong with the seekers or calstars. Look for a used one on CL, or the Seeker Stealth series is pretty nice rod for the price.

[tomahawk]

Diawa SL20SH as previously described or Penn 535GS. Seeker or Calstar 196/270/870 all in the 7 foot versions. 196 and 270 are fun bass rods and fish 15 to 20 lb really nice. The 870 is more of a 20 to 25 lb rod. If I was head to the islands and could only take 1 rod it would be either my 870 or my 270H-8. The 270H-8 isn't really necessary on a kayak IMO since there is no need to be able to fly line a sardine very far. It is also heavier and might be a little odd casting in a yak (i Haven't tried it). For fishing plastic, I really like a light weight 7.5 ft rod (8-15 lb test). I have a lamiglas MTxxxx (can't rememebr the numbers right now) graphite rod with an ABU 5600 tournament that you can throw a) cast all day and b) can cast a mile.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally Posted by steveooo

That's good advice.

Sealines are great reels for the $. They are good right out of the box, and when you service them you can upgrade to the carbon-tex drags. The Sealines are pretty durable, and can withstand the abuse they see on the kayak. I'd do 50 lb braid, just to increase the top shot capabilities. With 50 braid, I fish anywhere from 15 - 35 lb flouro. Fill the reel to the brim with spectra, and in most situations you only need a short top-shot.

You really can't go wrong with the seekers or calstars. Look for a used one on CL, or the Seeker Stealth series is pretty nice rod for the price.

could you explain what you mean by " braid " and " top shot " ?

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by tomahawk

Daiwa SL20SH as previously described or Penn 535GS. Seeker or Calstar 196/270/870 all in the 7 foot versions..

Great info on the rods, exactly right on.

I've owned both the Penn 535GS, and 525GS, personally I prefer the Penn 525mag or the new SQL12 which is also has magnetic cast control, they both cast much better. Mags are great with spectra because if setup correctly they can almost completely eliminate backlash, and you can get great distance with them without backlashing. even when casting topshots through guides.

The newer magged Penns are really underrated. The Penn SQL12 is the same size as the Diawa SL20SH but will outcast it, and has a much bigger, stronger drag about the size the used to have in a 4/0. It's more expensive then the Daiwa, but not that much more and it's worth the extra money.

For smaller swimbaits I like fishing a Revo STX, larger swimbaits the SQL12, light Iron the 525mag, all mag controlled, all with spectra.

Originally Posted by SASQUATCH

could you explain what you mean by " braid " and " top shot " ?

Braid is braided line, or spectra fibre line, it's a stronger stranded line that's thinner, and cuts through kelp. One thing it's not is clear so we spool our reels with it then add short pieces of either clear mono, or even more transparent fluorocarbon line to it, and we call those topshots. Long topshots are generally anywhere from 10 to 300 feet, short topshots are generally 3 to 5 feet, but they are all at the end and called topshots because they are on top of the other line on the reel.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

Great info on the rods, exactly right on.

I've owned both the Penn 535GS, and 525GS, personally I prefer the Penn 525mag or the new SQL12 which is also has magnetic cast control, they both cast much better. Mags are great with spectra because if setup correctly they can almost completely eliminate backlash, and you can get great distance with them without backlashing. even when casting topshots through guides.

The newer magged Penns are really underrated. The Penn SQL12 is the same size as the Diawa SL20SH but will outcast it, and has a much bigger, stronger drag about the size the used to have in a 4/0. It's more expensive then the Daiwa, but not that much more and it's worth the extra money.

For smaller swimbaits I like fishing a Revo STX, larger swimbaits the SQL12, light Iron the 525mag, all mag controlled, all with spectra.



Braid is braided line, or spectra fibre line, it's a stronger stranded line that's thinner, and cuts through kelp. One thing it's not is clear so we spool our reels with it then add short pieces of either clear mono, or even more transparent fluorocarbon line to it, and we call those topshots. Long topshots are generally anywhere from 10 to 300 feet, short topshots are generally 3 to 5 feet, but they are all at the end and called topshots because they are on top of the other line on the reel.

thanks for explaining that. so a topshot is essentially a leader that potentially can be much longer. interesting.

i used to fish a lot when i was younger. got married, raised four kids, now the youngest is 15 and am finding more time to do the things i used to do. equipment and methods have changed somewhat since then. thanks again for everyone's help.

[Fiskadoro]

So I always find it funny when people PM me questions rather then just ask them in a thread.

Someone just sent me a PM asking why mag brake systems would be better for spectra and why they'd be different then any other braking system like the centrifugal braking systems most reels use.

Ok.... So I thought about this one some.

Magnetic braking works where you have a magnet by the spool and it slows the spool by electromagnetism. I could go into detail but it works like the reverse of a electric motor, or like an electric brake.

Centrifugal braking uses tiny weights that are pulled out from the hub as the spool turns by centrifugal force, they then rub against a braking ring and slow the reel through friction.

Centrifugal braking is therefore greater, or more intense the faster the reel spool turns. The faster the spool turns the greater the outward force on the weights and the more surface they cover or turn against on the ring. It's like the braking force is something like the proportional square of the spool speed, where braking with with magnetism is more linear, or directly proportional to spool speed.

So with centrifugal braking you have almost no braking at lower speeds and heavy braking at high speeds, where with magnetic braking you have consistent braking, I.E. more braking then Centrifugal at low speeds and proportionally less braking then Centrifugal at high speeds.

So when you cast the centrifugal brake is only working in the faster portion usually the middle of the cast where a mag brake works the whole time.

Personally I get most of my backlashes one of two ways, either I get one by trying to cast too hard at the beginning of the cast or have it over-run at the end of the cast. That said I like to cast heavy baits, or really lures like Iron.

When you cast with centrifugal braking and a heavy bait the spool is not braked until it's turning fast, so you get kind of a weird bump when it comes into play, then you abruptly loose the braking when it slows down. That's the two points you're likely to backlash. Mono absorbs the shock of those changes in brake force, but Spectra unlike mono has no stretch so there is nothing to absorb the shock of changes in spool speed, or braking friction.

I find that with a mag control and spectra you don't have to cast as hard to get the same distance and the braking since it's constant is smooth throughout the cast. The braking increases steady then decreases steady so there are no surges or drops where your likely to backlash.

At the end of the cast when the spool does start to slow you still have braking. With centrifuge braking it cuts off, but with mag braking it stays steady, and prevents the overrun backlashes at the end of the cast.

That said this only works lures that have some wieght to them and cast a long ways anyway.

Extremely light lures can be cast further with centrifugal brakes because they do not brake until the reel speeds up. Say your on a party boat trying to cast a live chovie or sardine with no weight. A centrifugal brake allows the reel to get up to speed quickly, but then slows the reel if it starts to over-run in the middle of the cast, while a mag reel with it's steady braking makes it harder to get the spool spinning and it would actually be more prone to a backlash in the middle because it doesn't brake as much at higher speeds.

So in real world reel terms a Daiwa SL20SH fishes and casts flylined baits much better then the same sized Penn SQL12 but the SQL12 can outcast the SL20SH with light Irons or heavier plastics, if that makes sense.

So which casts further? Well it depends what they are casting but with heavier lures like Iron and plastics mags cast better. Centrifugal braking is trying to slow things down when the spool is at it's fastest in the middle or distance part of the cast. In contrast with mag you get more carry or a longer period of higher speed, and with spectra the line is thin and light, so the bait carries further before slowing down. That's where you get your distance with larger baits. So with a mag brake and spectra you can outcast Mono with a traditional centrifugal brake, when casting heavy lures.

That said if your throwing very light baits traditional centrifugal braking offers you more control, and the same size reel actually outcasts a reel that is mag controlled with smaller baits like flylined chovies.

I've seen it first hand and that's how I think it works.

Jim

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by SASQUATCH

thanks for explaining that. so a topshot is essentially a leader that potentially can be much longer. interesting. i used to fish a lot when i was younger. got married, raised four kids, now the youngest is 15 and am finding more time to do the things i used to do. equipment and methods have changed somewhat since then. thanks again for everyone's help.

It's cool and I had the feeling.

Spectra and small lever drag reels are the big changes that came in the last decade and a half. I hear you. I remember when everyone fished darcron for rockfish. Spectra or "braid" is kind of like Dacron used to be, except it's stronger and thinner and unlike dacron which was cheaper then mono it's actually much more expensive.

Great stuff though. You will be amazed at how much more you can feel with it especially deep and by how it cuts kelp. I remember the first time I had a good yellow swim into a kelp paddie with it offshore. I was like that fish is gone, but then it kept going and cut it's way right out again.

It's pretty Awesome stuff!!!


Jim

[SASQUATCH]

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

It's cool and I had the feeling.

Spectra and small lever drag reels are the big changes that came in the last decade and a half. I hear you. I remember when everyone fished darcron for rockfish. Spectra or "braid" is kind of like Dacron used to be, except it's stronger and thinner and unlike dacron which was cheaper then mono it's actually much more expensive.

Great stuff though. You will be amazed at how much more you can feel with it especially deep and by how it cuts kelp. I remember the first time I had a good yellow swim into a kelp paddie with it offshore. I was like that fish is gone, but then it kept going and cut it's way right out again.

It's pretty Awesome stuff!!!


Jim

RIGHT ON, CAN'T WAIT.

[FishNinjaY]

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

How about a Daiwa SL20SH filled with thirty power pro, for use with 15-25 pound topshots, on a 7ft Seeker or Calstar rated for 10-30 pound.

That's my take.

What exactly is the difference between this SL20SH and the Sealine-X, X20SLH reels? From the description, the ratio seems the same, but the X described as "ultra high speed" and has 3 bearings and described "free spool".. but practically-speaking, for kayak fishing.. which model is better?

Thanks..

[bad brady]

I'm looking into a new setup also. Debating between a 30 saltist paired with shimano trevalla or avet sxj paired with shimano terez. Mostly halibut fishing off the yak. But I wanna be able to use it other applications as well. Any input is greatly appreciated.

[spottie slayer]

Originally Posted by bad brady

I'm looking into a new setup also. Debating between a 30 saltist paired with shimano trevalla or avet sxj paired with shimano terez. Mostly halibut fishing off the yak. But I wanna be able to use it other applications as well. Any input is greatly appreciated.

for throwing waxwings i like the saltist on the terez
avets are hard to cast and have shitty drags. But their anodized and resist corosion.

[bad brady]

Is the sxj MC any better with casting? What's the deal with there drag?

[Whiting17]

Go to a any tackle shop and talk to them, have some ideas they will piece all your ideas and questions into a quality setup. I like an avet my self. MXJ or SX braid with a decent top shot on an 8ft termar. But that's just me, get some gear in your hands see what feels right.

[tacmik]

Originally Posted by Whiting17

Go to a any tackle shop and talk to them, have some ideas they will piece all your ideas and questions into a quality setup. I like an avet my self. MXJ or SX braid with a decent top shot on an 8ft termar. But that's just me, get some gear in your hands see what feels right.

That's what I did. Went to Squidco, told them how much I had to spend, what I was targeting and that I was fishing out of a kayak. They set me up in no time. Nothing like using local businesses and knowledgeable people in the business.